Local Authorities: Recycling

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this is intriguing, because in South Oxfordshire, for example, it is 66.6% and in the London Borough of Newham, it is 14.7%. One issue that my colleague Thérèse Coffey is dealing with is that many councils in urban areas of all political persuasions are finding recycling much more of a challenge, so we need to work on that.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, we need to be realistic about the overall recycling rates. The fact is that in England, recycling levels are falling according to the latest WRAP figures. We are now in danger of not even meeting the 50% recycling target by 2020 in England. When we talked about this before, the Minister agreed that we could learn a great deal from the Welsh Government, where rates are already at 63% and rising: they are going up in Wales and down in England. What lessons has he taken from the Welsh Government about how we could improve things in England?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

It is certainly important that we learn from where there are good examples. I referred to good examples in England; there are indeed good examples in Wales. We need to listen and learn from them. In Wales, a single blueprint is published; in England, there are three suggestions in the consistency document. This is all about how much we mingle—I gather that that is the word—recyclable produce. In some areas, it is easier to mingle it all and in others it is easier to separate it. The problem with that is that you might get five bins or you might get three. That is the issue that we need to wrestle with.

Inshore Fisheries

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the best thing may be if the noble Lord would be prepared to come with me to Newcastle to see the vessel-monitoring system, which I have learned a great deal about since his Question was on the Order Paper. It is a digital service which enables us to target those areas, so that we know every vessel that is at sea within our waters. I have some very interesting statistics on enforcement by the Royal Navy and others. In addition to that, not only are there three offshore patrol vessels but a further five new River class offshore patrol vessels are currently being built. They will be used for, among other things, fisheries protection. However, as I said earlier, we will have to review what we need to ensure that.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that if we are to have sustainable fishing in the longer term, which obviously will need to be based on clear scientific evidence, there has to be some alignment and co-operation with neighbouring countries? Fish stocks cannot be managed unilaterally—fish shoals can sometimes move hundreds of miles. Indeed, our own fishermen sometimes fish from the north of Russia right down to southern Portugal. This cannot be resolved by a unilateral declaration. There have to be detailed discussions because, as we know from the very good Brexit fisheries report produced by your Lordships’ House, there is an incredibly complicated set of agreements in place. I hope the Minister will take the message back to the Secretary of State that there is no point in just making a unilateral declaration on this; there have to be thoughtful, detailed discussions on the future.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I agree with a lot of what the noble Baroness says. We need to base our decisions on science. We have a responsibility under international law to have sustainable fish stocks, and I am pleased that in this country we have had some considerable successes in getting sustainable yields. The basis of this is that we have given two years’ notice that we intend to leave the London fisheries convention, which is necessary under legal advice. We now need to negotiate with our partners and friends in Europe so that, as I say, we have a sustainable fishing industry. Also, for the first time we will have the ability to decide who fishes in our waters.

Air Quality: London

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Borwick, for instigating this debate today and for once again giving us the opportunity to take stock of the action we still need to take on this critical threat to public health in London and the UK. I agree with a great deal of what he said, and in particular with his analysis that we should base our policy on the best scientific evidence available. However, that should not be an excuse for inaction. I think his message was that we should have both—and I agree with that. I am also grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. As ever, we have had a debate of considerable knowledge and authority.

I disagree with the several noble Lords who think that the problem is cyclists, buses and even pedestrians getting too close to the kerb rather than private car owners. The solution in city centres is a rebalancing of all of that. It is not just about tackling air quality but is a bigger issue of quality of life. As long as we have private cars driving into and clogging up city centres, they will not be pleasant places to live and work. That is a real challenge for us. We have to rebalance that in everyone’s interests.

I declare an interest. I am a member of the development board of ClientEarth, the environmental legal charity that has been pursuing the Government through the courts on this issue. I am proud of the work that it does, both in the UK and globally, in holding Governments to account for delivering their environmental obligations under existing laws. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, that I do not think any environmental charity has to apologise for the laudable objective of trying to save the planet.

As noble Lords will know, ClientEarth has been able to demonstrate to a number of courts, including the Supreme Court, that since 2010 the UK has had illegal levels of nitrogen dioxide in the air. Over this period, the Government have done little to tackle the problem. The courts, quite rightly, ruled that as the Government are already in breach of the legislation, they have a duty to get the levels of nitrogen dioxide down below the legal limits in the shortest possible time. To do that clearly requires urgent action on a scale deliverable in that shortest possible time and technically evidenced to show that the return to legal limits is indeed a likely outcome.

Noble Lords would have thought, given the public health implications, which are well known, that the Government would have shared this sense of urgency and acted appropriately. Instead, as we know, various draft air quality plans have been produced that, it is obvious to most observers and to the courts, only partly address the problem. They lack sufficient urgency and are based on unsubstantiated assumptions. I argue that the latest draft again fails to meet the very reasonable tests that have been set. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and other noble Lords in asking why the Government are still dragging their feet on this.

The latest draft air quality plan—which, incidentally, the courts had to insist was published—sets out proposals for clean air zones in the most highly polluting towns and cities in England. It is at best a partial response. For example, it does not address similar issues in the devolved nations. In addition, the Government’s own technical support, which accompanied the draft plan, makes it clear that charging vehicles entering clean air zones is the most effective way of reducing pollution. But the Government are failing to heed their own technical advice. Instead, their draft plan says that charging should be introduced only as a last resort. Equally, the draft fails to offer increases to vehicle tax for polluting vehicles, or a targeted diesel scrappage scheme. The Government’s lack of leadership on this and the Prime Minister’s continued reluctance to act on diesel cars means that thousands of lives will continue to be put at risk.

Why is this so important? A number of noble Lords have drawn attention to the growing evidence of poor health and premature deaths linked to polluted air. I welcome my noble friend Lady Blackstone to her role at the British Lung Foundation, which has done a considerable amount of work over many years to raise awareness of the health dangers. There have been various statistics quoted about the health dangers. King’s College London estimates that there are 9,416 deaths a year in London alone and we know that children’s health is particularly vulnerable to damage from exposure to traffic fumes. Evidence shows that such exposure reduces lung growth, produces long-term ill health and can cause premature death in young people. Yet at least 3,000 schools are sited within 150 metres of a road emitting illegal levels of nitrogen dioxide. The issue is stark and clear.

Meanwhile, British Heart Foundation research has shown that even short-term inhalation of air pollution can significantly increase the chance of a heart attack among those living with cardiovascular disease. As we also heard, the latest research from scientists at Lancaster University has shown that tiny particles of air pollution can even find their way into brain tissue, with all the additional health threats that that entails. All of that reinforces the growing public health concerns about the damage that nitrogen dioxide and particulates can inflict, and makes a mockery of the comments of the GLA’s Conservative adviser Adam Wildman, who wrote of a,

“pollution panic … not borne out by the evidence”.

What needs to be done to bring vehicle emissions to safe levels? I pay absolute credit to London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who, unlike the Government, has shown real leadership and is taking tough decisions to clean up the air in London. As we have heard, he has set out plans to make the congestion charge zone a zero-emission zone as soon as possible. He has also set out plans to make London a world leader in clean and sustainable urban transport—both public and private vehicles. More immediately, he is introducing an additional charge for the most polluting diesel vehicles. Incidentally, a recent YouGov poll for ClientEarth showed that more than two-thirds of Londoners believe that owners of higher-polluting vehicles should pay more to travel through London.

The mayor has also raised public awareness of the health risks through mass public information and a new air pollution alert system. All these factors are to be celebrated. Some individual local authorities are also taking matters seriously. Lambeth already has advanced clean-air plans and a range of concrete measures to cut down on car use in its locality. Westminster has introduced £80 fines for drivers caught with idling engines, and there were calls for no-idling zones to be made compulsory outside schools, hospitals and care homes. However, lest we become complacent about this, and as the Library Note helpfully states, many other local authorities are failing even to capture the existing pollution data that they are required to measure under law, let alone taking action to clean up their air pollution levels.

That brings us back to the need for national leadership and a robust plan of action—a point emphasised by many noble Lords. It is clear that the Government need once again to revise their draft air quality plan so that it properly delivers a return to lawful nitrogen dioxide levels across the UK in the shortest possible time. That plan should also include, first, a recognition that local authorities will need help—they cannot do it on their own, as the Government would have them do; there is no point in devolving responsibility to them without help. I agree with my noble friends Lord Hunt and Lord Berkeley that an overall reduction in the number of road vehicles has to be part of that solution, particularly in those clean-air zones.

Secondly, while clean-air zones are necessary, they cannot be limited to a select number of towns and cities. There is a danger that such an approach will simply shift the problem elsewhere. As we heard, car fumes do not stay in one area; they move with the wind from one part of the country to another. Thirdly, we need to ensure that motor manufacturers are forced to give accurate test results for emission levels which can be properly verified in everyday road settings. The fact that VW and other manufacturers tricked the Government in the past has still not properly been addressed. What action are the Government taking to tackle that previous subterfuge and introduce proper penalties for any future transgressions by those manufacturers?

Fourthly, we need a scrappage scheme for the most polluting diesel vehicles, increased charges on diesel fuel and greater incentives for car purchasers to opt for low-emission vehicles. Finally and crucially, we need a new clean air Act which could consolidate the complex and disparate body of domestic, EU and international law into one coherent and effective piece of legislation. This would ensure that air quality targets are in force when we leave the EU and give the public confidence that their health concerns are at last being addressed. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Agriculture: Foreign Workers

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this produce is very vulnerable and the skills in picking fruit are therefore important—it is very perishable. There is, of course, skill in ensuring that we get our soft fruit in safely. We are now self-sufficient in strawberries for much of the year, which are a wonderful product, and there are many whom we rely on in the workforce from the European Union.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, apart from some of the emerging practical problems that have already been raised today on seasonal workers, and despite what the Minister has said, is the real issue not the fact that these EU workers no longer feel welcome here? Is it not the case that this is a problem entirely of the Government’s making? They have sought to make these workers bargaining chips in the EU negotiations and have said nothing publicly about the value they bring to our economy and wider society. It is no wonder if fruit growers and so on are reporting that people who have come time and again, year after year, now say they will no longer come. They do not feel welcome here.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I refer the noble Baroness to what I just said, which was that 171,000 more people from the EU have come to work here than there were a year ago—171,000. That does not suggest to me a climate in which people feel unhappy or unwelcome. They are very welcome and are vital in this industry and in others where they work. I honestly do not think that what she is saying is borne out by the labour market statistics. It is very important in this climate as well to remember that saying people are unwelcome can often engender the sorts of comments that I know all of your Lordships would say are reprehensible and undesirable. We need to create a climate in which this country sees the value of people coming here and working here, often doing jobs that some of our own people have, in recent times, not sought to do. They are very important to us.

Farriers (Registration) Bill

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, for tabling the Bill, and for so ably taking the baton from his colleague, Byron Davies, who sponsored the Bill in the Commons. I now realise I should also be thankful to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, for his initiative, which led to the Bill in the first place. I think we will discover during the debate that that initiative was well worthwhile.

I make it clear at the outset that we intend to support the Bill without amendment and we very much hope that it can clear the remaining hurdles to become law, although I had some sympathy with the points that the noble Lord was raising, particularly about the definition of a farrier. I certainly had to look up that term before I came into this debate in order to understand completely what it meant. However, I do not want to encourage anything that might mean the Bill does not become law, so I do not know what the logistics of that would be. I am sure the Minister will explain all.

As the noble Earl rightly recognised, regulation in many professional services and welfare sectors has moved on since the introduction of the original Act in 1975. I have personal knowledge of the standards now expected in the regulated sectors, because I sat for many years as a doctors’ fitness to practise panellist, as well as chairing part of the regulatory oversight for the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. Those regulated areas have moved on and are constantly reconsidering and improving their standards of oversight, and it is right that we should do so in this area.

I recognise the importance of modernising the regulation of farriers to ensure that the public can have continued confidence in the quality of the service being provided and have recourse to an independent judgment when things go wrong. That is why we support the proposal to separate the powers of the farriers’ registration committee from those of the investigating committee and the disciplinary committee. It is now common practice in regulatory bodies that those who set the standards are different from those who adjudicate on them, so the changes come into line with good practice elsewhere.

We also support the changed membership of the Farriers Registration Council to increase the number of practising farriers, along with two veterinary surgeons, as well as broadening the involvement of the organisations which have already been mentioned. This should indeed help to strengthen the council’s knowledge of up-to-date, professional, technical and training issues, so that it is better able to set achievable standards and deliver them. We also support the time limits on office and the arrangements for the election of the chair. Again, all these seem to coincide with good practice elsewhere.

These proposals are a sensible balance between the majority of working farriers and those involved in the Worshipful Company of Farriers. Both have a role to play, but our ultimate aim has to be to provide a modern and professional regulator that commands public confidence and operates transparently. The Bill achieves that aim and we are very happy to support it.

Recycling: Plastic Bottles

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to introduce a deposit return scheme to reduce plastic bottle waste and increase recycling.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, we are determined to reduce litter on our streets, roads and beaches as part of the Government’s litter strategy, which we will launch shortly. The strategy will focus on education and awareness, better enforcement and improving cleaning and litter infrastructure. We recognise that there is more to do and will continue to work with business, WRAP, local authorities and campaign groups to increase rates of recycling across the board.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but why is the department not prepared to show more leadership on this issue? After all, we know the scale of the problem. In the UK, we are using 35 million plastic bottles a day, 16 million of which end up being dumped on our streets, in our rivers, in the sea and in landfill. We know the scale of the problem, and we also know that there are solutions. Other European countries have already introduced bottle deposit schemes with great success. We know that, when we introduced the 5p plastic bag levy, it cut the number of single-use plastic bags considerably. Such measures can work. Is this not just a question of leadership? Why does the department not take a stronger line on this issue?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I certainly intend to take a very strong line and am looking forward to the launch of the litter strategy. The reason that these matters are so important is that they affect everyone in this country, whether it is litter or the importance of recycling resources. That is why the Chancellor said in the Budget that by 2020 targets for overall packaging recycling would increase to 75.4% and for recovery to 82%. This Government are very ambitious in their desire to improve our environment.

Water Supply Licence and Sewerage Licence (Modification of Standard Conditions) Order 2017

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2017 Grand Committee

[Baroness Parminter (LD)]

I shall come to the aid of the noble Lord and say that it is an absolutely appropriate time for this to be raised. He will be aware that Defra is undertaking a review of sustainable urban drainage, so if we cannot raise this issue now in advance of the review, when can we raise it?

We have raised this issue frequently: in the Housing and Planning Act last year, when discussing automatic connection rights; and noble Lords will know that we have been addressing this issue rather more recently in the Neighbourhood Planning Bill. It is an absolutely fundamental issue that underpins not only the building of houses that are sustainable in the future but addressing the water shortages that we will face, given the challenges of climate change and population growth in the foreseeable future.

Will the Minister say a few more words about the likely timing of the department’s review to ensure that it is in advance of the Adaptation Sub-Committee’s forthcoming review in May? If it is not, that will be a seriously detrimental step. While, as the Minister said, these are small measures pertaining to delivering better solutions for our water industry, we must look at the bigger issues around automatic connection and sustainable urban drainage and, in the future—I hope this will be in the White Paper—a Bill on abstraction. If those things are not addressed, the Government are seriously failing in looking at the water challenges of the future.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I am very pleased to associate myself with the comments of both the noble Lord, Lord Deben, and the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter. They have raised a very important issue, which I know we have debated on other occasions. I would be very happy to continue to add to any pressure we can bring to get the Government to take this issue seriously. The noble Lord set out the case extremely well as to why it was such a huge urban and rural challenge in terms of planning, flood prevention, and so on. Both noble Lords made the case extremely well.

I guess it now falls to me to make some comments about the actual regulations before us, which I fear will not be as interesting. I am grateful to the Minister for setting out the purpose of the three regulations. As he made clear, they are all consequent on the Water Act 2014, which received very detailed scrutiny in your Lordships’ House. The opening up of the new non-household retail market in April 2017, and the ongoing challenges of delivering greater competition in retail water and sewerage systems, will inevitably need modification and refinement. In this context, we accept that these new regulations are both technical and necessary.

However, I have a couple of questions for the Minister. First, the water supply licence and sewerage licence orders are mainly concerned with the percentage of licensees that must agree Ofwat’s decision to amend licence conditions, as the Minister spelled out. We agree that a 20% level of objection is a reasonable requirement to trigger a referral to the CMA. However, the consultation on that regulation also flagged up some concerns about the way in which sewerage licences were to be calculated, given that there is very little metering of wastewater output from premises. I do not disagree with the rather pragmatic conclusion that in the absence of metering of sewerage, it is best to base the calculation on the clean water supply to the premises. Given that there is an overarching environmental need to encourage businesses to manage and limit wastewater, the department could do more to encourage people to manage water supply—I am talking about both clean and dirty water—and put in place more effective processes for charging for wastewater disposal in the future. There are good initiatives out there but many businesses are happy to pour very highly polluted water down the drain in large quantities.

Secondly, the water industry designated codes regulations set out the arrangements for appeals to the Competition and Markets Authority. Again, I do not disagree with the rather pragmatic approach taken in these regulations, which suggests that we need to establish a fast-track appeals process, similar to the energy code appeals. However, these are short-term pragmatic solutions that are necessary to get the new system up and running in time for the April start.

However, we need to see how the codes and appeals bed down and whether—as is often the case—their application has unforeseen consequences. I would be grateful, therefore, if the Minister indicated how the operation of these regulations, and the others to which he has referred, will be kept under review as the retail market matures. In response to the consultation on the codes, the Government said:

“It is to be expected that the regulatory structure around a healthy, well-functioning market may need to evolve when competition has become long-established”.


We agree with that, but it would be helpful if the Minister set out the process by which this evolution will be monitored and how Parliament can best be enabled to play a full role in that review. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this has turned out to be a rather more interesting debate than the one I thought I was embarking upon. As I said, however, the Government are committed to opening up the retail water market on 1 April, giving business, charity and public sector customers choice over their water company. The regulations debated today are an essential part of the framework, including primary and secondary legislation codes and licences, which will allow the market to function, evolve effectively and provide safeguards for customers.

I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for her endorsement of what are pragmatic measures. She asked what steps are in hand to charge more effectively for wastewater disposal. More than 90% of non-household premises are metered for the purpose of calculating water use, but a much smaller number are metered for measuring the discharges of wastewater to which she referred. While there are currently no plans to push for more wastewater metering, we believe that the introduction of the sewerage licensing regime could lead to the development of the market for wastewater meters, with the purpose of reducing charges.

We also expect that sewerage licensees will work with their customers to provide advice on the recycling of wastewater, the collection and re-use of rainwater and surface water, and other water efficiency measures. This is primarily to reduce the demand for water and provide savings on water charges, but it would also automatically lead to lower wastewater charges for unmetered sewerage customers. I was very taken, therefore, by what the noble Baroness said, and by the essential belief that we all share in the importance of using water wisely.

The noble Baroness also asked about how the water code appeal regulations and the retail market will be kept under review. Ofwat will be implementing a market monitoring framework that will closely scrutinise the performance of the market on a range of measures. No new market will be perfect on day one—that is the human condition—but benefits will consolidate over time. Customer switching levels will be an important measure but clearly not the only one. It will be important to see that customers are able to negotiate the right deal for them and that competitive markets are fair, transparent and efficient. My department will look in particular at how these regulations contribute to supporting an effective and transparent market. We will also review the effectiveness of the CMA code appeal regulations, as new codes are added to the appeals regime.

I must applaud my noble friend Lord Deben for his customary tenacity in raising an issue that I know is close to his and many other hearts. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, assisted me slightly by saying that the measures before your Lordships relate entirely to the non-household sector, but my noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, have given me a sharp reminder, which I take on board. The Water Industry Act 1991 sets out the circumstances in which a water company is required to make a connection. It is a qualified duty. I could set out the circumstances in which a water company is required to make a connection, but the most important thing for today’s purposes is that I shall write to those of your Lordships who have attended and contributed to this debate.

I am confident that these regulations represent another marker in the Government’s journey to reform the water market and provide more choice to non-household customers. For those reasons, I commend the regulations to your Lordships.

Circuses: Wild Animals

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Wednesday 1st March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I will certainly take back what your Lordships have said, but it is absolutely clear that the Animal Welfare Act 2006 makes it an offence to cause unnecessary suffering to an animal. This is backed up by a code of practice, and no one should keep a primate in solitary conditions, as the noble Lord has said, keep it in a small cage or feed it with an inappropriate diet. In other words, I repeat: primates should not be kept as pets.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, perhaps I may push the Minister further on the real reason for the delay in introducing the Bill. According to the latest Defra consultation, 95% of the population support a ban and the issue has cross-party support, so it cannot be because the Government fear a backlash. We are prepared to work with the Government to introduce what ought to be fairly simple legislation, and I really do not understand why there is continuing delay.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I obviously understand what the noble Baroness is saying, and I too would like to make progress. However, I repeat that 16 wild animals are currently under a very rigorous licensing scheme. I deliberately mentioned their species so that your Lordships could understand which animals were involved. I emphasise that there are very regular inspections, and one reason why primary legislation is necessary is that there is a view that a legal challenge would be made because there would be insufficient grounds to secure a ban on a welfare basis.

Imports: Vegetables

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Wednesday 8th February 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure a guaranteed supply of vegetables in the United Kingdom, in the light of restricted availability from Spain and other European countries.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has a highly resilient food industry with effective supply chains providing wide consumer choice. The diversity of food supply from domestic and international sources allows for alternative products to be used when required. Retailers work with suppliers to ensure optimum availability, sourcing from alternative places if availability is restricted from usual suppliers. There are also many other fresh vegetable products fully available from seasonal UK production and international sources.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but he will have seen the news reports of empty shelves in supermarkets, with the crisis expected to last until the spring. Meanwhile prices have trebled, in part because it costs more to fly vegetables from the USA and Egypt than to bring them overland from Spain. Given the public health implications, is the department confident that there are sufficient alternative sources of vegetables, particularly in schools and hospitals? Is the department monitoring the prices to ensure that profiteering is not taking place? Finally, what lessons can we learn for future trade negotiations about the comparative price advantages of importing foods from the EU compared with, for example, importing from the US?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my officials have been discussing these matters with retailers and New Covent Garden, and the situation is improving. Climate conditions in Spain and the Mediterranean are enabling the situation to improve, and goods from other sources of supply, such as the Americas, are coming in. But this is a time when we should be reflecting on using our own wonderful nutritious British vegetables. In the last few years, food prices have fallen by 7.4%—I think that may deal with some of what the noble Baroness might have been implying.

Brexit: Environmental Standards

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right that agriculture plays a crucial role in our environmental policy: 70% of our land is farmed, so it is very important. That is why the two forthcoming Green Papers for consultation, to which we look forward to many responses, are about enhancing and handing over a better environment than the one we have inherited, including a vibrant agricultural system. As I have said before to your Lordships, I believe that both are compatible.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to push the noble Lord on the Question that was just asked. Will he guarantee to the House that any future trade deal with the United States will be based on our existing high environmental standards, which will not be sacrificed in some sort of grubby trade deal further down the line? This is really important to the House, and we have debated it many times.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, obviously I am not privy to what will be in the forthcoming negotiations, but what we have said and will continue to say is that we are not prepared to see a diminution of our environmental standards. We are subject to obligations and treaties, and we wish to hand over a better environment than the one we have inherited.