Care Quality Commission (Registration and Membership) (Amendment) Regulations 2012

Debate between Baroness Jolly and Baroness Wall of New Barnet

Monday 25th June 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Jolly]

Certainly that was my experience. Although there were instances where we had uncomfortable inspections, afterwards an awful lot of work was put in to try to remedy issues that had been raised. The team went in as a team and worked as a team. Everyone on the team had experience of working within the NHS in one format or another and, although we may not have carried out identical roles to those that we were inspecting, there was a clear awareness that we knew what we were about. I shall not carry on at great length because of the time.

The amendments to the registration are a tidying-up exercise. All that we are doing is replacing the National Patient Safety Agency with the NHS Commissioning Board Authority, so it is a cut-and-paste job, if you like. Will the Minister confirm that in due course this will subsequently transfer to the board when the board becomes the board and not just the authority? Will the Minister clarify the situations where deaths and other incidents in these situations involving service users—vulnerable people—are reported and say why they might be reported to the board and not to the CQC? If we are to learn anything from this information, it is critical that the board commits to publishing it on a regular basis. It also needs to be part of the board’s regular agenda.

On a related issue, will the Minister update the Committee on deaths of service users and untoward incidents, which cause difficulty for carers and, in the case of untoward incidents, the patients themselves? During the consideration of the 2012 Bill, there was much debate about the duty of candour. Will the Minister give us some sort of update on where things are? I remind him of his comment on 27 February:

“I reiterate the commitment that I have given today that the Government intend to use the ‘standing rules’ regulations to specify that the contractual duty of candour must be included in the NHS standard contract”.—[Official Report, 27/2/12; col. 1055.]

That was a welcome move but I would appreciate it if the Minister could update us on where we are. I appreciate that this will not happen overnight; it will require training and a large amount of cultural change.

I move on to the governance and board membership issue. Today we had the interesting interim report on the Winterbourne View Hospital. Bearing that in mind, will the Minister reflect on whether he believes that the new governance arrangements proposed in these regulations will minimise or even avoid a repetition of this level of behaviour or such an appalling lack of dignity for those with learning disabilities? Does he believe that adequate funding is available for the CQC? Again, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, gave us a long list with numbers relating to its remit—it is really broad and deep. The Committee would probably feel comfortable if it felt that the CQC was being ably supported with adequate resources. It has had a difficult role in changing times and it can use its registration requirements to drive up quality. To that end, the Government must work with it. I think that we would all agree that service users and carers deserve no less.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend’s view of the CQC. I want to mention, as he has done, the work carried out by the previous chief executive and the chair of the CQC, and welcome the new chief executive. The noble Lord may remember that when we had a discussion in the House on the social services Bill about care in some care homes, he made a plea, in response to a question, that we should look at the CQC’s responsibilities and not blame the CQC itself for everything that happens. More and more, that is certainly my view.

I am not aware of any detail of the alternative ways that the noble Lord and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, have mentioned, but I am concerned about—my noble friend raised this issue—the credibility of the CQC. I have noticed from my experience in the trust that the more responsibilities the CQC has been given, the greater the perception that it is going to be very thinly spread and that its expertise will in some way be weakened. That may be people’s view rather than the reality, but I think that we owe it to everyone who has a relationship with the CQC not to dilute it by continually adding to its responsibilities. I know from my own experience how important its inspections are, certainly in hospitals.

The noble Lord referred to my trust, which covers a two-district general hospital, and also to some very small GP practices and other areas of work. I am a great supporter of the CQC, as the noble Lord will know. I feel that it has done a tremendous job and has made a difference compared with what happened before it came into being. I want to strengthen that rather than in any way to dilute its reputation. For example, people who work in my hospital say, “My goodness, it’s doing everything now”, but what does that really mean? I am sure that the noble Earl will have listened to everything that has been said and that he will think very carefully about what the CQC’s credibility means to all of us in terms of its responsibilities.