Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Baroness Doocey

Wednesday 9th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, reading the text of Clauses 13 and 14, as with so much legislation, does little to reveal the huge impact that this change is likely to have, but the impact is going to be very severe for disabled people. The argument that cutting benefits for disabled people will incentivise them to work is, frankly, insulting. As many other noble Lords have said, disabled people want to work if they can. People with progressive illnesses would love to feel remission and resume their careers, and people struck down with serious illnesses or mental ill-health would give almost anything to be well again.

That is why it is so iniquitous to claim that this cut in support will somehow incentivise a return to employment. Surely it would be more honest for the Government simply to say, “If £73.10 a week is enough for people on jobseeker’s allowance, it’s enough for people on employment and support allowance with limited work capabilities”. But that is not correct.

First, if you are fit and healthy, unemployment is expected to be short-term, although for many sometimes it is not. For the majority it is possible to scrimp by on subsistence living for a few weeks or months while looking for a job, but if you are not fit for work and have a debilitating long-term condition, then it could, sadly, be years and years before you get back into work, if at all. Scraping by without buying clothes or replacing worn-out household items becomes increasingly difficult, as does dealing with increased prices. The further impact on physical and mental well-being is extraordinary and depressing for many people.

There are also costs associated with being sick or disabled: the costs of travelling to medical appointments, of extra heating, of specialised diets and of mobility aids—all the things that are required because of your illness or disability. These extra costs significantly impact on disabled people’s savings, which makes managing on low incomes for very long periods incredibly difficult.

Finally, there are the huge barriers faced by disabled people who try to find work once the Government have assessed them as able to return to work or to enter the workforce. The vast majority of employers, whether meaning to or not, look at disabled people and see only a problem. They seldom see the opportunity to benefit from their determination and talent. The Government have recognised this problem with their commitment to tackle the disability employment gap. Sadly, in Clauses 13 and 14 that commitment has been translated into a snatch-and-grab raid against sick and disabled people, who need support to find work when they can, not the threat of no food on the table if they cannot.

I sincerely hope that the Government will reconsider this proposal, which would have the most severe consequences for some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson]

My Lords, I want to talk about the review of ESA, which I was involved in, along with my noble friends Lord Low and Lady Meacher. As they have said, the review found no evidence to back up the assertion that the £30-a-week component is acting as a disincentive for sick and disabled people to work. The barriers to work for disabled people are long-standing and far more complex than that, involving myriad reasons.

It its response, Parkinson’s UK gave an excellent example of how the disincentive argument falls down:

“Given that Parkinson’s is a progressive condition, it is not possible to ‘incentivise’ someone to look for work, or to return to work more quickly by cutting their ESA support. Parkinson’s UK is particularly concerned that the impact assessment for Clause 13 of the Bill suggests that someone could ‘by working around 4-5 hours a week at National Living Wage, recoup the notional loss of the WRAG component’. This is not a realistic possibility for anyone with a progressive condition who has already been acknowledged as too unwell to work”.

The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, made some interesting points about employing disabled people in this House. I suggest that we go a little further. I would like more disabled people to work for the Department for Work and Pensions, and to work on WCA and PIP assessments. Who better to assess who can and cannot do something than a disabled person with such a condition?

The work capability assessment is an important part of this debate. Although the review did not set out to look at it specifically, a huge number of respondents wrote to tell us about it—the horrific experience they had had and the fear, stress and anxiety the process had caused. Between December 2014 and June 2015, 53% of everyone who had appealed their ESA fit-for-work decision had it reversed, which tells us a huge amount about the accuracy of the assessment. I am certain that many would agree with me. Indeed, the Work and Pensions Select Committee has recommended that the Government,

“undertake a fundamental redesign of the ESA end-to-end process”.

Getting the assessment right and ensuring that disabled people are offered the right support to help them take steps towards work is fundamental.

Many respondents told us that the proposed £30-a-week cut would hinder their ability to undertake work-related activity, training, work placements and volunteering, as well as to get to and from work-focused interviews or indeed job interviews. Transport is often inaccessible for disabled people, particularly those with mobility difficulties or who, like me, are wheelchair users. A survey carried out by Leonard Cheshire found that 59% of respondents had been refused access to public transport because of their disability. I estimate that at least once a month I am refused access to public transport. I declare that I am a member of the board of Transport for London, and although it is great that all buses have ramps, only one wheelchair per bus is allowed, and only one wheelchair per train carriage—by which I mean there is one wheelchair space in standard class and one in first class. If that space is taken, I cannot get on the train. Only one in 10 Tube stations on the Central line is accessible, and even the Jubilee line, which is more modern, still has many problems with access.

I should be delighted to take the Minister on one of my journeys round London. As much as I do not like non-disabled people using wheelchairs, because it does not give them the true lived experience, it might be interesting for the Minister to try it to see how much longer it takes me to get round London, to get to work and to just live my life.

Some 64% of disabled people have to cancel or miss appointments because of public transport not being accessible; 75% said they found using public transport “quite difficult” or “very difficult”. The solution might be taxis, but they can be expensive, and often more so for disabled people. Just last week, three taxi drivers on Parliament Square drove past me instead of picking me up. According to Scope, two in three wheelchair users say they have been overcharged for taxi or private hire vehicle use because of their wheelchairs. DLA and PIP may go some way to offsetting this—but so does the £30 a week of the WRAG component. It is there to recognise the fact that it can take disabled people longer to secure work. Indeed, 10% of unemployed disabled people have been unemployed for five years or more, compared with just 3% of the non-disabled population. It also goes some way to reflecting the fact that it is more expensive to travel to training and work experience placements, as well as to job interviews.

Many respondents highlighted the negative impact such a cut would have on health and well-being. It was highlighted specifically by mental health charities and respondents with mental health difficulties, who talked about the mounting stress and anxiety that comes from being pushed into, or deeper into, poverty. Macmillan Cancer Support talked about cancer patients who, in many cases, have to cut back on food and heating in order to make ends meet. The MS Society suggested that people might have to cut back on medication and prescriptions, as well as specialist equipment. This would undoubtedly move them further from the workplace, but also presents a very serious threat to their health.

London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Amendment) Bill

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Baroness Doocey

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson]

My Lords, I declare an interest in that I am a board member of Transport for London, and I also sit on several committees of the London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games. I believe in encouraging those who can use public transport at Games times to do so, and I think that they will find it quick, relatively easy and, dare I say it, fun. London will be busy. It will clearly look, feel and work very differently at Games times. The happiness quotient at each of the six Games that I have attended is perhaps hard to explain. However, the Games-time city has a very different feel to it. It is also important to remember that London will be open for business. This amendment is useful, because it is important that we have an opportunity to highlight the positive sides of London’s public transport system, and there are many; to continue to encourage a wide range of people to think about public transport as a serious option; and to remind ourselves of what we are trying to achieve.

It is commonly accepted that organising an Olympic and Paralympic Games will be a huge logistical challenge, but there are twin objectives—not only to deliver a great 2012 Games, but to keep London and the UK moving. Many positive things are already happening. The transport infrastructure is complete, in operation and delivering an early legacy well ahead of the Games. There has been detailed planning, modelling and testing, aided by the test events programme, and there is the experience that London has from other large events. Detailed transport information is being made available to businesses, and from early next year there will be a lot more information available to help the public plan right up to and during the Games. For many spectators, the Games are still a long way off; they are not thinking that far ahead about how they are going to plan their Games times. However, when their tickets are in their hands, information will be available about how to travel around. From my own sporting background, I understand the need to minimise disruption at Games times. This will be important in how we are perceived internationally.

I would like to take this opportunity to knock down some of the transport myths that seem to be associated with the Games, because I believe that these exacerbate perceptions and put people off thinking about public transport as a sensible option. It is not true that the Olympic route network is only for the Games family. Any vehicle, including taxis, can use the vast majority of the ORN. In London, it covers just 1 per cent of the road network and only one-third consists of Games lanes. Games lanes are only implemented when there is more than one lane available. The largest element of the Games family is the media, followed by athletes, officials, Games workers, and only then sponsors and IOC members. The vast majority of the Games family— 80 to 90 per cent of them—will use buses and coaches to get around.

The second myth is that there are going to be queues of two to three hours to get into stations and on to trains in London during Games time. Again, this is not true. TfL and Network Rail have undertaken modelling to understand the likely demand at key stations, such as London Bridge, if businesses and people do not change their travel behaviour during Games time. This shows that, at certain times and in certain locations, demand will exceed transport capacity, but queues of the length that have been mentioned in the media are not expected. There is ongoing work with businesses to deliver the change in travel patterns and reductions in demand required. That needs to keep going, especially for the smaller businesses. The big businesses understand that they need to plan ahead. I was at a conference a couple of weeks ago and talking to somebody who owns a restaurant close to the Games. He asked me how many potatoes he needed to order. I said that I had no idea, but you need to be thinking about that right now. It is important that we keep reminding those small businesses that they need to start planning well ahead.

The third myth is that there will be 100 days of traffic disruption in London around Games venues, due to the ORN and road restrictions. Once again, this is not true. The ORN comes into operation just a couple of days before the Games and is taken out as soon as it is no longer required.

Much has already been done to encourage the use of public transport, but as we move into the new year, the public will start to think and plan ahead as the Games become more real. It is the role of LOCOG and the stakeholders to decide how the various groups are moved around London. It is in their interest to make public transport work, because this is how the rest of the world will see us. It is important that we do not forget the tourists who are coming to London who will want absolutely nothing to do with the Games. There will be people who may not even think about the Games being on. As we get closer to the Games, and as the competing nations and chefs de mission visit more frequently, many who hold a valid identity and accreditation card will naturally see public transport as a viable option in many circumstances, although I would not encourage competing athletes to use it. At other times, they will find it an easy way to get round. The stories about the best way to get in and out of the city—to go shopping and to do all the other things that athletes do—will spread quickly among them. I do not think that we have to worry too much about this. The chefs de mission have significant experience at Games times in advising their team members on the most efficient way to travel around the busy city. A lot of this will just naturally happen.

[Baroness Doocey]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority and the Home Office Olympic Security Board. Everyone would agree that the Olympic lanes are what I would describe as a necessary evil, because nobody would want athletes not to get to their events on time. I wholeheartedly agree with the noble Baroness that the only sensible way to get to the Games is by Tube; there is no question about that. However, with just 36 weeks to go to the Games, I am concerned that London’s emergency services are still unclear about the circumstances in which they will be allowed to use the Olympic route network.

Last week I chaired a meeting of the Metropolitan Police Authority’s Olympics committee, where the London Ambulance, the London Fire Brigade and British Transport Police came along to the committee to give evidence. All these emergency services expressed deep concern about the Olympic route network. Although agreement has been reached that will allow them to use the Olympic Games lanes when answering emergency calls, no decision has yet been made about allowing emergency vehicles to use these lanes when not answering emergency calls. This means that when emergency services need to get back to base or to move equipment from A to B, they could be faced with sitting in traffic jams for hours on end. It also means that the rail emergency response vehicles would face similar problems. This could have major repercussions in the event of a serious incident on the rail network.

I find it almost unbelievable that with less than eight months to go, this has not yet been resolved. Can I ask the Minister if she can do everything possible to take whatever steps are necessary to get this sorted as a matter of urgency?

London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Amendment) Bill

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Baroness Doocey

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Grey-Thompson]

My Lords, I declare an interest. I am a board member of Transport for London. Also, as an ex-athlete, I feel slightly guilty that I have glided down Paralympic lanes in the past. The amendment would prevent the ORN and PRN coming into force unless there has been consultation with local authorities, residents and businesses that may be affected by it. I still think there is a huge amount that needs to be done to educate the public around the use of the ORN and the PRN, and I raised this at Second Reading.

I have seen personally that it is quite difficult to engage the media in issues around the ORN and the PRN, perhaps because it is not the most glamorous side of the Games in terms of spreading understanding. The aim of the ORN and the PRN is to move athletes and Games families around in a sensible manner, and we accept that London will be busy. However, I would like to raise a few points around the consultation and what the ORN and PRN are going to look like. It is important to remember that they will come into force only just before the Games begin. They will be discontinued when they are not needed, and there has been a serious attempt to minimise the number of roads used. It is 109 miles, which is, in effect, 1 per cent of London’s roads. It is also important to differentiate between the ORN and the Games lanes, which are only going to be 30 miles of London’s roads.

There has been extensive consultation with the boroughs, engaging with officials and politicians over design, implementation and the operation. Informal engagement about the detail has just come to an end and the commissioner has met with borough leaders to discuss the ORN and other Games timing issues. In terms of consultation with Londoners, half a million letters have gone out as part of an informal engagement. There have been 70 drop-in sessions run by Transport for London, and changes can be made in response. Also, all the information on the ORN and PRN is on the Transport for London website. In terms of minimising disruption, the ORN will only be operational a few days before the Games and not used between the Games, as has already been said.

There is also a lack of understanding about taxis’ use of the ORN. They are able to use the ORN but they are not able to use the Games lanes, which are vital for moving the athletes around. TFL has consulted with the London Cab Drivers Club, the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association and Unite the Union, and are including the possibility of giving them access to the same permissions as buses to turn onto the ORN and PRN. Those meetings are going to continue on a monthly basis. Finally, considering road safety has been central to the design of the ORN and PRN, there is an awareness that pedestrian crossings are of concern. Where the crossings have to close, there will be barriers with signage to the nearest safe crossing. I believe it is important that tactile paving will be covered to ensure that visually impaired people are not misguided. A great deal of work is ongoing with the London Visual Impairment Forum and local mobility groups to ensure that that consultation continues.

[Baroness Doocey]

My Lords, I have reservations about the Olympic road network, but not the necessity to have one. I do not think that anyone in this country would not agree that it is absolutely imperative that athletes and necessary Games officials can get to the various events on time. I also understand that we must make it possible for sponsors, who have paid vast amounts of money for sponsorship deals, which also include tickets to the Games, to get to the Games on time. That is perfectly okay. I am speaking from memory, but I am concerned about the 82,000 people who will be allowed to use the Games lanes, of whom 25,000 are sponsors and about 18,000 are necessary officials and athletes. I totally accept that we have had to sign up to a deal with the IOC, but I honestly believe that more should be done to persuade the Olympic family members, who are not necessary for the smooth running of the Games, to use public transport.

Here, I come to my second point. I have a real concern about the figures that have been quoted for what will happen on the public transport system. When the bid book was published, we saw that figures produced by Transport for London suggested that in August every year there is a reduction in traffic of 20 per cent. We were told, in the same document, that the Olympic traffic would add only 5 per cent, so in theory we had headroom of 15 per cent. We are now told that, in addition to the normal reduction of 20 per cent in August, we need to reduce traffic at certain stages by a further 30 per cent. On my maths, that is a turnaround of about 44 per cent. My concern is that if the figures were so wrong then, how can we possibly believe that the figures quoted now are correct? I have reservations about them.

On the one hand, I would like to persuade as many people as possible to go off the Olympic network and on to public transport but, on the other hand, if public transport is to be affected so badly and the figures have been so miscalculated, it would seem that the more persuasive we are and the more we can get people off the Olympic network, the more problems we will have with public transport. I believe that many questions need to be answered but, more than anything, we need clarity on the Transport for London figures.

My final point is about black cabs. It is essential that there are some special arrangements for black taxis, not just to pick up and drop off from the Olympic lanes, otherwise I can see vast numbers of taxi owners’ livelihoods being put on hold for the six weeks of the Games. That is not what anyone would wish to happen.