Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 20th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests. Specifically, I am chair of Sport Wales, president of the LGA and chancellor of Northumbria University.

Many of the briefings I have received have raised the unintended consequences of the Bill, and many have referred to it as the “anti-boycott Bill”. It might seem trivial that I raise sport within this debate, but actually sport and boycotts have been inextricably linked, and jurisdictions have constantly used sport for political gain.

Like the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, I had a mother who refused to buy anything from South Africa. Some of my first memories of sport as a child are watching with interest the Moscow Olympic Games. Over the years, debates over whether sport can, or should, be used as a tool of soft foreign policy have grown stronger. With every Games they become more involved, nuanced and complicated, and additional pressure is put on individual athletes. I welcome the fact that athletes are asked to use their platform to debate issues that are important to them, but they may get pulled into this debate without realising some of the consequences.

It is easy to forget that back in 2012 there were calls from many quarters for Paralympians, and specifically British athletes, to boycott the Games because of various sponsors—as opposed to the countries that were competing or where they were staged. Looking at broader sports politics, we see that the question of whether allowing athletes to compete as neutrals has any impact is up for debate—although I must say that Mr Putin did have some minor respect for the Olympic movement, because he chose not to invade Ukraine due to the Olympic truce. The Paralympic truce does not exist in the same way. Russia is not the only country to use sport as a political tool. Sport and politics are inextricably linked. The strongest soft politics is the medal table, which every country signs up to.

I will not repeat what the Minister said about the Bill’s intentions, but some of the vagaries of international sports policy are apparent. On 12 January, Inside the Games announced that the International Ice Hockey Federation had suspended Israel from all competitions, for the time being, to protect the safety of participants, “including Israelis”. A few days later it changed its mind and allowed the Israeli team back in.

The Minister mentioned devolved authorities. Well, sport is devolved in the UK, and qualification for various events is a mix of home country and United Kingdom bodies. UK Sport, possibly the best known of our sports bodies, is classified on the Government’s website as an executive non-departmental public body. So, I would like to understand whether sport, sporting bodies, national governing bodies, teams for sports events, training camps, conferences, or anyone involved in the bidding process—or any of the above, combined—will be impacted by the Bill.

Any cultural institution that is unsure of whether it is bound by Section 6 of the HRA has been told that it should seek independent legal advice. That is, quite simply, not practicable for any small sports organisation in a fast-changing sporting landscape where athletes have little choice where selection events are held, or where jurisdictions continuously hide behind sport as a potential tool of political gain.

Space Industry

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 4th March 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I was delighted to see that the European Space Agency recently announce that it was intending to send a disabled person into space. There was much celebrating from non-disabled people, who saw it as a step towards inclusion, but personally, I would prefer it if it were possible for me to get onto the Northern line.

Asking the International Paralympic Committee to help highlights some of the challenges of not being able to go down the more traditional recruitment route. The sector employs 42,000 people but, as with other areas, it is hard to find data on representation, and we know that getting into STEM subjects is not easy for disabled people. It is not quite comparative data, but the British Medical Association stated that 77% of respondents were worried about being treated unfavourably if they disclosed a disability or a long-term health condition to their employer or place of study. I would be interested in the data for the sector and, as we are under a strict time limit today, I will just say that I would also be interested in the employment of disabled people and how it can be included in a future strategy—not just one person being sent into space, if the ESA finds someone.

Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 22nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I am delighted that we have the chance to give this Bill its Second Reading today. It is long overdue and I am sure that there are many outside your Lordships’ Chamber who would be surprised that we do not already have this in place. I congratulate the Government on bringing in this legislation but note the speed with which it is required.

Reading the Library notes on this Bill reminded me of the shock I felt when my grandmother told me she had to leave work when she got married, because she would be taking a job away from a man. That a Minister would have to resign her position to take maternity leave is ludicrous and not in keeping with the world we live in. It is unacceptable that a woman should have to choose between her job and career and having a family.

As an athlete, having to fit the birth of my daughter around my competition schedule because there were no maternity rights was not easy—that is still very much ad hoc in sport today. There is a great deal of similarity between being an athlete and being in Parliament. The reality is that many women have to take different decisions from men about how to make it work, and delay having children or walk away from a role they care passionately about and are good at because it is impossible to find the right balance and support.

This Bill sends out a strong message. I would like to see provision for paternity, shared parental and adoption leave, as well as wider issues of statutory maternity pay and leave for MPs and their staff, included in other legislation.

We should also consider your Lordships’ Chamber. As younger Peers are appointed, we must have increased flexibility. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, on paying Ministers. I remember one occasion a couple of years ago when a returning Peer brought her baby to a Division, and because only a Peer can walk through the voting Lobby, the baby was passed down the line—fine for that one moment, but not a long-term solution to allow women to play a full part in political life. I know from the experience of being a parent of a young child in Parliament that, if you do not live in London, it can be very complicated. I know we choose to do this role, but I really think that Parliament can do better.

The six-month time limit is fine, but we should not stop looking for a greater degree of flexibility if required. I would also prefer it not to be a discretionary power for the Prime Minister to designate a Minister wishing to take maternity leave as a “Minister on leave”. It should be automatic. I have been thinking about whether they could be better described as a “Minister on maternity leave”, but I have concluded that I do not have a strong opinion on this form of language.

However, like others, I will raise the language used in this Bill. I support neutral language, and there are many benefits in terms of driving equality. Yet for so many we do not live in an equal society. The Equality and Human Rights Commission recently said—this relates to the pandemic—that pregnancy and maternity discrimination is the “most urgent and immediate” threat to equality. We should seek to correct this. The fact that we measure pay gap, employment gap, educational attainment and a whole set of other metrics shows us that our society is not equal.

I have been contacted by women and men who asked why the word “woman” is in the Explanatory Notes and not the Bill. I will be clear: I think the word “woman” and variations of it should be used in this Bill. I know there will be many who will not agree with me raising this, but I see my role as a Member of your Lordships’ Chamber as being to raise issues that challenge.

I do not hate or want to dehumanise anyone. As a disabled woman, I have experienced discrimination and received a significant number of emails about the many forms it takes. This is a contentious issue and in this debate there will be many views; we are probably not all at the same point on the continuum. We need to be able to have an open discussion, without fear of retribution, of being cancelled or shouted down for discussing terminology or having a different view. Mine may or may not be the majority view beyond the debate today, but that does not mean we should not debate it.

I thought long and hard about joining the debate today and whether I could deal with any potential backlash that may come my way for saying that the word “woman” should be in this Bill. Many from different viewpoints have said that I should be careful. This is not the time to debate the wider aspects of what freedom of speech means; that is for another time, but we must tackle the abuse that women face for having a public view on a whole range of issues. Being told what my opinion should be does not encourage sharing of views and is detrimental to the long-term goal of equality.

Language is important. I have always said that language is the dress of thought. As we know, the specific language used in legislation is incredibly important. It has far-reaching consequences. It is about providing rights and protection and it is our duty to find the balance in that.

I have spent most of my life fighting for inclusion for everyone that society chooses to label as different. I have spent most of my life being othered by language, attitude and a lack of physical access. Growing up, I was called handicapped or a crippled child; luckily, there has been an evolution in that language. Perhaps we need to find a new form of language to include those who feel othered, but it must not be at the expense of the word “woman”.

One thing I am certain of is that many in your Lordships’ Chamber, and those who have a different view from mine on the use of language, want to stop the denigration of women. Excluding the word “woman” from this Bill and other potential legislation does not help the cause of equality for everyone or anyone.

Finally, I wish the right honourable Attorney-General all the best when she becomes the first “Minister on leave”.

Covid-19: Restrictions

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, again I agree with the sentiments expressed by my noble friend. The Government are proceeding as fast, and in the best way, as they can on every front, including this one. As is often said at Downing Street press conferences, the science around immunity is, as yet, unclear—and, by definition, it will remain so, as this is a new virus. As the noble Baroness said, people should follow the guidance that is in place.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, some disabled people seem to have received a second letter asking them to shield for another 12 weeks. It appears that the government website is not necessarily clear on the correct procedure for vulnerable and/or disabled people. Will Her Majesty’s Government provide greater clarity on shielding and, at the very least, ensure that the website is up to date for this group of people?

[Lord True]

I will look into the matter raised by the noble Baroness. Whenever somebody receives a shielding letter, the advice will be to observe the guidance in it. However, I repeat that that advice is currently under review. That will be the case for all those who have received a letter. If necessary, it will be updated, or reaffirmed, by the end of June.

Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) (Amendment) Regulations 2017

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a recipient of disability living allowance, the precursor to the personal independence payment. I therefore have an interest in this type of benefit. Two simple and basic points make the case against these regulations, open and shut.

First, this is a clear breach of faith with the disability community. Back in 2012, when PIP was first introduced, Mind and other mental health charities raised concerns that people with mental health problems would be able to score points only under the criterion which used the words “psychological distress”. The Government gave reassurances that that was not the case and that people with mental health problems could potentially score points under a range of criteria if their condition meant that they struggled to plan and follow a journey. On this basis, PIP was welcomed by the mental health and wider disabilities sector, because for the first time people with mental health problems felt they would be given access to disability support equal to that of people with physical disabilities.

The Government made clear commitments that people who experienced psychological distress would be eligible under the very criterion that is now being changed. These commitments were underlined in statements by Ministers in debates on the Welfare Reform Bill at the time—the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, has quoted the statements by Maria Miller and Esther McVey, so I do not need to repeat them. However, in practice, the DWP has not deemed people who experience psychological distress eligible for the full range of points, regardless of how severely that distress affects them. This has meant that 164,000 people have received a lower rate than they were entitled to.

This is the origin of the two cases which came before the Upper Tribunal at the end of 2016. The tribunal’s rulings did not extend the scope of PIP, as the Government suggest, but clarified it. That is what tribunals do: they do not make the law; they clarify what the law is. It is the Government who are now seeking to restrict the scope of PIP from what it has always been understood to be by removing psychological distress from criterion 1f as a reason for not being able to follow a familiar route without assistance, so that a claimant can only be awarded four points under mobility descriptor 1b. The regulations are in clear breach, if not of a manifesto commitment on this occasion, then certainly of pledges given to those with mental health problems in 2012. This change to the eligibility criteria also flies in the face of the statement in the Work, Health and Disability: Improving Lives Green Paper that the Government will not seek to make any further cuts to disability benefits following the already controversial cuts for those receiving employment support allowance in the WRAG, for new claimants from 1 April this year.

My second point can be made even more briefly: the proposed changes would create a legal distinction between those with mental health problems and those with other kinds of impairment when it comes to benefit assessments, a distinction which flies in the face of the Government’s commitment to parity of treatment for people with mental health conditions. The Government have said that a person with a cognitive impairment alone will still be eligible for the highest mobility rate, but the term “cognitive impairment” far from covers the full range of people with mental health problems.

I believe these regulations are trying to move the goalposts by excluding people who experience psychological distress from eligibility for the higher number of points necessary for the higher rate of mobility component. In doing so, they effectively discriminate against people with mental health problems. This is clearly against the original intention of PIP and runs counter to the commitment the Government made to people with mental health problems—that they would be assessed in the same way as other disabled people. I support the Motions before us this evening to oppose these regulations and if the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, moves for a vote, I will support hers.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, as ever, I have had a huge number of emails on this debate tonight. I had several hundred after the last debate tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, on the 20/50 rule, so I am expecting many more tonight.

I understand that many charities have written to the Prime Minister on this issue, and I am concerned about the way the question of who is eligible has been misunderstood. It has been suggested that this is not a big change, but like other noble Lords tonight, I have many concerns. To add to something that my noble friend Lady Campbell of Surbiton said about visible and invisible impairments, with something as simple as the use of a blue badge, there is huge misunderstanding about who can qualify for one—who should have one and who should not—and how people are treated if they are perceived as not disabled enough to need one. That is relatively simple compared to some of the intricacies of the PIP assessment forms.

I have issues with the name “personal independent payment”, because it is not terribly accurate. It is a contribution towards independent living but does not cover all the costs of someone with a disability living independently. I declare an interest in that I am a recipient of PIP, and was a recipient of disability living allowance. I went through the transfer process last year, which was interesting and arduous. Just the forms to tell you that you have to transfer are complicated enough, but when I made the phone call to register, I was left on hold for over 25 minutes. With each passing minute, you are worried that the phone call is going to drop out. Then I was asked a number of questions which could be construed as confusing. I have some understanding in this area, and they were really difficult questions for me to answer. I was asked the same questions repeatedly, back and forth. I was asked the name of the medical personnel who could best describe my impairment, which is really difficult because I am disabled, not ill—I cannot even remember the last time I went to the doctor. It got to the point where I was even doubting my own answers, and I am not exactly lacking in confidence when it comes to being able to understand and explain the challenges that I face with being mobile.

I have said it before and I will keep saying it: it is essential that we have a better decision-making process. The cost of mandatory reconsiderations and tribunals is simply too high. Scope has said that 89% of applicants who have gone to a tribunal for a mandatory reconsideration or appeal in the last quarter have received a new decision. Could the Minister say how much the mandatory reconsiderations and appeals are costing? If decision-making were better, how much money could be saved to plough back into the system?

Child Sexual Abuse: Football Clubs

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I very much welcome this debate. It is sad that we are in this position, although perhaps not surprising considering the number of cases that we have heard about outside sport. I admire the bravery of those who have come forward; it is a huge burden to carry. Right now the focus is on the abuse of children and that is quite right, but we should not forget adults and the potential for longer-term grooming, and those who can be vulnerable by being involved in sport. It is true that sport has a dark side; it is a place where you can get close to children and build a relationship with them and their families.

I declare an interest in that I was asked to do the review of duty of care by the right honourable Tracey Crouch, the Minister for Sport in another place, after the Government’s sport strategy Sporting Future was published in late 2015. I am due to report to the Minister shortly. I thank her for starting this work, and I am indebted to her officials at DCMS for the time that they have given me. It would be unfair to cover the details of my review or its conclusions before the Minister has had the chance to formally review it, but recent events bring into stark focus what duty of care means in sport, and what it means to participants. In the simplest terms, it means that at all levels, we treat people how we would like to be treated ourselves.

Sport has a special place in the nation’s heart—and quite rightly. There is much celebration of success, whether it is a medal at the highest level or a grass-roots game. Sport is amazing. It means a lot to us as a nation. As an individual, it is about developing your physical and mental health and well-being. For me, it changed my life. But driving a positive culture that has duty of care at its heart is a fundamental responsibility of leaders, managers and coaches at every level in every organisation in sport.

If someone knows that something inappropriate it is happening, they need to feel able to step forward and bring about change without fear of recrimination. We must have an opportunity for whistleblowers to raise concerns. We have seen that a lack of duty of care has resulted in behaviours and actions which are unacceptable and furthermore should not be tolerated in sport. We have seen what that has led to.

Participants should not feel that they are just a number on a spreadsheet. The drive for success and the desire to win should not be at the cost of the individuals involved. What we have seen has been dominated by fear. There is fear of not being believed. There is fear that a young participant’s word will not be taken against a trusted, respected and successful coach—and the words “successful coach” hide many things. There is fear of letting their family down. There is the expectation, if they play sport; there is the amount that families put into a child who has a dream. The biggest fear is that your dream may be taken away from you. It is amazing what people will tolerate to hold their dream true to themselves. There is no place for fear within our sports system.

I have never experienced sexual harassment in sport, but I have many friends who have. Some of the culture that exists in sport is tough: there is training and commitment. If we think outside sport, there is dance, there are the arts. That is what it takes to achieve, but a tough and challenging system should not equate to abusive relationships. The bottom line is that those in sport should be safe and free from bullying, abuse and harm. Sport cannot think of itself as something different or special.

I believe that things have changed in recent years and that measures are in place that safeguard those who currently participate, but then and now participants have the right to be free from harm. Then and now, they have a right to be free from bullying. Then and now, they have a right to be free from sexual harassment and sexual abuse. We cannot assume that it has just gone away; nor can we assume that it is just in football.

I know how seriously the Government are taking this issue—I have been party to many meetings and discussions in recent weeks—but I hope that the Minister will confirm that the Government are doing everything they can to close the loopholes that exist in sport around criminal record checks and reporting, and that they are looking at wider funded and non-funded sports which want to have safeguarding policies in place. Sport is too special to allow these individuals to have a place in it.

Health: Birth Defects

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for tabling this interesting debate. As ever, your Lordships’ Chamber gives us a wonderful opportunity to think about certain topics in more detail and to challenge ourselves and our opinions.

Until this debate was tabled I had not previously considered other methods of taking folic acid apart from the pills that were available over the counter. My first thought was that I was not sure that it was a terribly good idea—mass medication, as the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, has said. However, I thought of other areas where there is fortification, such as fluoride in the water, mentioned by my noble friend Lady Mar who raises some good points on the level of folic acid that should be taken. I came to realise that it is probably a reasonable idea if it can be done in the right way and not cause any other issues.

I felt compelled to speak because I have spina bifida—that is why I am a wheelchair user—and perhaps if the benefits of folic acid had been known when my parents were planning a family, my life might have been very different. Many of the opportunities that I have experienced are due to the fact that there was little knowledge in this area, whether it was around supplementation or various scans that are now routinely available. For me personally, it is kind of hard to regret that there was no knowledge at that time.

When I was born, my parents were told that I had spina bifida. I do not think that they really knew what it meant. There was little education and disabled people were not as visible in society as they are now. My parents were also told that if I had been born just a few years earlier, because of my condition, I would have been taken away and not fed.

My parents were also given a whole host of reasons why I had spina bifida. My mother was blamed. She was told that she had not eaten enough vegetables, even though she was virtually a vegetarian. My father was then blamed because of other family conditions or illnesses which were then a precursor. The final reason we were given was that it was more common in areas of coal mining or industry, so therefore the figures were much higher for the Welsh mining valleys, Nottingham and Newcastle. I grew up in Cardiff; I do not know whether that is good or bad.

I am very pleased that there is better knowledge today. Although everything I have read says that spina bifida was not hereditary, I and other family members were told that there could be a slightly higher incidence of the condition, and I was advised to take a double dose of folic acid. Obviously I was able to take it because my daughter was part of a planned pregnancy, but we must consider unplanned pregnancies and, indeed, women taking folic acid for the correct amount of time. When I was pregnant, it was not made that clear that it was meant to be for 12 weeks of pregnancy. I know that, in my own case, I experienced dreadful day sickness—I dreamed that it might just become morning sickness—and, as a result, I was never entirely sure of the amounts I had taken or whether it had remained in my body. I took several pills a day, just hoping that some of it would benefit me. I treated taking folic acid in the same way as I thought about my diet; I do not drink or smoke. It was about doing the best I could for my unborn child.

I read with interest the documents produced by the British Medical Association in April this year about the falling rates of spina bifida. Like my noble friend Lady Mar, I believe that part of it is about scanning and the opportunity to discuss and offer termination in a different way. That certainly was not available when I was born. Certainly, it appears that the best medical advice is that taking folic acid will contribute to preventing this condition.

This is a difficult subject to discuss because it would be so easy to move into a wider discussion on scanning and termination, but that is not what this debate is about. In a note which I received from Jackie Bland, the chief executive of Shine—the charity for people with spina bifida and hydrocephalus—she indicated that we might well have a situation where it seems many of us are more comfortable managing the occurrence of spina bifida through scanning and termination, when fortification combined with more robust public health information could reduce occurrence by up to 72%. This is really interesting.

Perhaps there is also a failure to acknowledge the extremely traumatic consequences of a late-pregnancy termination. I do not believe that termination is an easy option. I also know of several people who, knowing that they are having a child with spina bifida, have chosen to carry on. Shine’s health advisers have also said that many parents have reported a strong pressure to terminate and a sense of guilt if they choose to continue. That is a consequence of the acceptance of management by termination. We must recognise that whatever people choose, these are hard decisions that families have to take.

When I was pregnant I was asked so many times what I would do if I knew I was going to have a child with spina bifida or who would become a wheelchair user. I think that people were expecting me to give a definite, immediate answer. My response was that I would ensure that my child had the best self-propelling wheelchair on the market from the age that they were meant to be crawling. It is about managing it, and the choices that you make.

I have only one question. I was wondering, when researching this area, whether consideration had been given to including folic acid in other food products. I do not eat a lot of bread and am not planning on having another child. It is about understanding the right amount of folic acid that should be taken.

Finally, I reiterate that I am strongly in support of prevention, in the way that I support things like the seat-belt law, which had a significant impact on the rate at which people experienced traumatic spinal cord injuries, or something like cycle safety. Prevention is a positive step forward. I look forward to debating this again in the future.