Employment Rights Bill

Baroness Goudie Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 19th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Morrissey (Con)]

My Lords, it is telling that so many amendments have been tabled from across the Committee for discussion. Amendments 98, 101, 101A and 101C all aim to restrict the use of non-disclosure agreements in sexual harassment cases. There has already been considerable debate in the other place on this as well, led by Louise Haigh MP. I hope and believe that the strength of feeling and the rationale behind it are encouraging the Minister to consider tabling the Government’s own amendment to the Bill. The Bill provides such a wonderful opportunity to address a practice that has gone on for far too long, as others have talked about. Of course, this is not an academic issue. It has a real cost and causes real detriment to people’s lives and, of course, to their careers.

I speak in support of all these amendments and have added my name specifically to the one tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, because it sets out clear limitations on the silence that has, to date, been able to be bought through NDAs, while enabling workers to request an NDA, since that can help them move on with their lives, but under only certain conditions, including receiving “independent legal advice”. I want to clarify my additional Amendment 101A, which seeks to strengthen this provision by requiring employers to contribute to legal fees. We know that fees put many women off seeking advice: it seems very daunting, and then they have to pay for it at seemingly unlimited cost. I note that Ireland, which has been mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, has already adopted this practice of allowing NDAs for sexual harassment cases only in what are described as “excepted circumstances”. In those cases, employers are required to cover the employee’s reasonable legal costs.

I have suggested quite a specific figure, although I stress that it is the principle rather than any specific amount that is important. I note that I came up with that figure after consulting lawyers specialising in these matters. The key is that such costs would be borne only by those employers that have reason to enter into such agreements. Firms with good cultures that do not have sexual harassment cases will not need to enter into NDAs. They will have nothing to pay—another incentive to encourage companies to prevent harassment occurring in the first place.

As has been mentioned by others, those of us who have tabled our various amendments and supported the views of others will be very pleased to consolidate our suggestions into one amendment that is simple and workable, and will achieve the goal of limiting the use of NDAs so that they are not misused but used to help victims move on. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s thoughts and again urge the Government to use this opportunity to finally end a practice that has gone on far too long and been completely unchecked.

We all know about the #MeToo scandal and the causes célèbres, but until the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, talked about her experience as chair of inquiries and explained that the ones we hear about are, effectively, the tip of the iceberg, I would have said that we do not actually know much about the scale of the problem. No data is reported at present on the use of NDAs for sexual harassment and, of course, the nature of these agreements means that there are no revelations about the underlying issues. From personal experience, I have heard from women working in finance who sometimes use a third party to tell me their story because they are keen to see something done about it. I can only surmise that there must be many more in other sectors who do not come forward.

My final conclusion is: enough is enough. I urge the Government to seize the opportunity afforded by the Bill to restrict this misuse of NDAs.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab)]

My Lords, I support Amendments 98, 101 and 101A, and Amendment 101C, which is in my name. Also, I support my noble friends Lady O’Grady, Lady Kennedy and Lady Chakrabarti, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Morrissey and Lady Kramer, and the work they have done on these issues over the years. I thank Members of the other place for their support, including the meeting they called for us with Zelda Perkins last week, which was really helpful, and the organisations outside that have written to us all over a long period asking for support on this issue.

These amendments are all about harassment, which, surely, we are all against. If not, it is about time we were. Harassment includes sexual harassment and, surely, we are all very concerned about sexual harassment. It is obvious that we cannot combat sexual harassment effectively, which is what is required, if it is hidden from the light of day by being covered up by, or on behalf of, the perpetrator. We know that perpetrators get away and get jobs in other places. It is pernicious that all too often it is covered up and deliberately hidden from sight by so-called non-disclosure agreements. The title does not sound as objectionable as cover-up agreements, but that is precisely what they are. They are cover-up agreements, in intention and effect. They impose a positive obligation not to disclose what should otherwise be disclosed. They are pernicious, and bad apples in character. They perpetuate harassment. You can get away with harassment if you can secure a non-disclosure agreement by paying a bribe. Nothing could be more anti-social. Nothing represents a more toxic workplace culture or better ensures its continuation. Whistleblowers are silenced. If a disclosure is relevant, it should be disclosed—that is, a disclosure about harassment that has been committed, is being committed or is likely to be committed. They are all highly relevant exposures, which would thereby avoid harassment.

This is about ethical standards and workplace misconduct—indeed, gross misconduct. It is not about protecting confidential business information. I say that because that is important. We understand those non-disclosure agreements. This is about sexual harassment. On one hand, transparency and freedom of expression are virtues. On the other, confidentiality, privacy and the protection of personal data are virtues. There can be tensions between legitimate considerations that may tug in different directions. Balances have to be struck but—and it is a big “but”—that may not work well when one party is more powerful than the other. In the case of, for example, Harvey Weinstein, there may also be an important public interest in a disclosure. Non-disclosure agreements need to be properly regulated and not permitted to continue in the way they have and to have their chilling effects. This is especially so when the disclosure ban arises in the context of an employee and employer and/or relates to harassment, bullying or discrimination, including, importantly, sexual harassment, and intellectual property rights and competition considerations are not engaged. It is time to act to prevent the misuse and abuse of NDAs, which should not continue. It has continued for too long. I very much hope that the Minister will meet a group of us to see how we can consolidate a small amendment to the Bill that would strengthen it greatly.

Employment Rights Bill

Baroness Goudie Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 27th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goudie (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate my colleagues on their maiden speeches: my noble friends Lady Berger and Lady Gray, the noble Baroness, Lady Cash, and the noble Lord, Lord Young. It was a pleasure to hear them, and I look forward to working with them on this Bill and other issues. I also thank all those outside bodies who were kind enough to send me briefings for today’s debate and for the continuation of the Bill.

I am pleased to support the Employment Rights Bill, a long-overdue step toward modernising our labour laws, ensuring fairness in the workplace and building an economy that works for everyone—businesses, workers and communities alike. For too long, our employment laws have failed to keep pace with the realities of modern work. Between 2010 and 2024, we saw relatively little new employment legislation, despite profound economic and workforce changes. The key framework governing employment rights, the Employment Rights Act 1996, dates back nearly 30 years. While the world clock has evolved, our laws have not. This Bill is about ensuring that the UK labour market is fit for the future: a labour market that delivers security, flexibility and, of course, dignity in work.

A central pillar to the Bill is ensuring that workers can balance employment with their family responsibilities. Today, too many parents—particularly mothers—are forced to choose between their jobs and their children. A survey by the law firm Slater and Gordon found that six in 10 mothers felt sidelined from the moment they revealed they were pregnant. Additionally, a third of managers surveyed preferred—listen to this—hiring men in their 20s or 30s over women of the same age, fearing potential maternity leave. This is a disgrace. The Bill will strengthen protections for pregnant women and new mothers, ensuring the future of this country can be fairly looked after.

Additionally, making paternity leave and parental leave available from day one of employment will have a significant impact. A study examining Sweden’s 2012 parental leave reform, which allowed fathers up to 30 days of flexible leave during the child’s first year, found significant benefits for maternal health. Specifically, there was a reduction in anti-anxiety prescriptions, a decrease in hospitalisations or specialist visits, and a drop in antibiotic prescriptions among new mothers in the first six months. These improvements are attributed to the father’s increased presence, providing support and allowing mothers to rest and seek preventive care.

Bereavement leave is another crucial reform. Losing a loved one is one of the most difficult experiences anyone can endure, yet too many workers are forced to return to work before they are ready because they do not qualify for leave. This Bill ensures that bereavement leave is a universal right from day one, offering workers the time and dignity to grieve.

This Bill will also strengthen protection against workplace harassment and discrimination—issues that disproportionately affect women. A survey by the Trades Union Congress found that 52% of women had experienced sexual harassment at work—a number that rises to 63% for women aged 18 and 24. The Bill introduces new duties on employers to prevent harassment rather than simply reacting when it happens, creating a culture of accountability and safety. We need a complete ban on non-disclosure agreements in cases of sexual harassment, bullying and general discrimination against people at work. It is really important that victims are no longer silenced; we really must be fervent about this issue.

In addition, the introduction of gender and menopause action plans is a necessary step forward—right now, one in 10 women in the UK have had to stop working.

I am sorry I cannot go on longer.