Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate between Baroness Golding and Lord Campbell-Savours

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

I wish to intervene in this debate following a contribution yesterday by my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer of Thoroton, when he drew our attention to that fact that large sections of the Representation of the People Act 1983 have been transferred into Schedule 4. That gave me cause to read Schedule 4.

As a preamble to my remarks, I suggest to the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, that we do not always move amendments to clauses and schedules on Bills until Report, because often it is important to get an explanation of those schedules and clauses prior to tabling amendments. That is precisely what I want to do on this occasion.

To begin with, I shall concentrate my remarks on Section 61 of the 1983 Act, on other voting offences, which is transferred on page 97. I am sorry to refer to a page number, but I am not a lawyer. Section 61, as modified in this proposed legislation, will say that:

“A person shall be guilty of an offence if”,

that person votes,

“knowing that he is subject to a legal incapacity to vote in the referendum”.

That is under new paragraph (a). Under new paragraph (b), it is an offence if he votes,

“knowing that he is or the person to be appointed is subject to a legal incapacity to vote in the referendum”,

and, under new paragraph (c), it is an offence if he votes for a person knowing that they are subject to a legal incapacity to vote. What is interesting about those provisions, which have been transferred from Section 61 of the original Act, is that, when I read through the whole schedule, I realised that parts of it were perhaps not enforced in the original 1983 legislation. Have there actually been prosecutions under these sections in the 1983 Act? Could the Minister establish whether that is the position?

Also on page 97—as I say, I am not a lawyer, so I have to refer to the page—in the wording transferred directly from Section 61, there is another part that is not clear; when I was discussing this with colleagues there was a little ambiguity about what it means. It says:

“A person shall be guilty of an offence if … he votes on his own behalf otherwise than by proxy more than once in the referendum”.

Some people might interpret that as meaning that a person has two votes for themselves. I wondered whether the Minister had considered the possibility of that being the case.

Schedule 5 sets out the position more clearly: it is illegal to vote more than once in the same referendum,

“unless you are appointed as a proxy for another person”.

The wording that is used in the 1983 Act has endured for the past 25 years, but I wonder whether anyone had sought to interpret it in the way that a minority might, which was not the intention of the 1983 Administration when they brought these sections into law.

Section 61 also says:

“A person shall be guilty of an offence if … he votes on his own behalf in person in the referendum when he is entitled to vote by post”.

I was unaware of this. My noble friend says that it cannot be right. If you look at Schedule 5, it is more clearly set out on page 166. The 11th instruction states:

“After receiving this postal vote, you cannot vote in person at a polling station in the referendum[s]* or election[s]*”.

I wonder how many people know that. I wonder how many people receive a postal vote, do not use it and walk into the polling booth to vote, not realising that, according to the provisions of this Act as I interpret them, they are breaking the law. I did not know that.

[Baroness Golding]

I did.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My noble friend knew but I can tell that there are others in the Chamber who did not.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

That may well be the case. There may well be an explanation as to how it can be done. All I am saying is that there will be some people who will have a postal vote, not use it and go into a polling booth to cast their votes. It may well be that Members of this House did so formerly; of course, they cannot vote now.

[Baroness Golding]

It will be marked by the returning officer on the sheet that they have a postal vote. Therefore, they will not be entitled to have another vote handed to them when they go to the polling station. That has always been the case, as far as I can remember, and it is still the case now.