Wagner Group

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 11th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

We are aware that Wagner has historically drawn its funding from three main sources: direct payments from the Russian Government, as President Putin has publicly admitted since the insurrection; cash payments from Governments, regimes or organisations employing Wagner, as in Libya; and natural resource concessions. We also know that Prigozhin has sought to evade sanctions through front and shell companies, both in and outside Russia. The noble Lord makes an interesting point to which I do not have a detailed response, but I shall make inquiries and respond to him if I can.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that while the existence of mercenary groups such as the French Foreign Legion—which was involved, along with other countries in the West, in expanding into Africa and creating colonies and wealth—was acceptable in the 19th and 20th centuries, it is totally unacceptable in the more moral climate of the 21st century?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I have always been clear in my remarks from the Dispatch Box how much the Government find Wagner to be a repugnant, discredited organisation, and how much we deplore attempts to interfere in sovereign states’ political systems and Wagner’s attempt to exploit these countries. That is why we are doing everything we can to play our part in calling it to account and constraining what it does.

Nuclear Submarines: AUKUS

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Monday 3rd July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the role he is playing and wish him well in his advisory capacity to Rolls-Royce. This is a very important project. It is probably one of the most important we have entered into in the post-Second World War period. He is absolutely correct that there is a need for cross-government co-operation and consultation. That is happening. As he is also aware, one of the big challenges is in relation to skills. We are very cognisant of that, and activity is under way to try to increase nuclear sector engagement with young people and attract talent from a more diverse background.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that increasing the number of submarines armed with nuclear weapons invites less responsible countries, like Russia and China, to do the same? This increases the possibility of their accidental or malevolent use, leading to horrendous suffering.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I can simply clarify to the Chamber that the AUKUS programme’s SSN-AUKUS submarines are nuclear-propelled, not nuclear-armed.

Ukraine: Ministry of Defence Strategy

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Thursday 15th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, I can provide my noble friend and the Chamber with some further information. This is a substantial package from JEF member states of £92 million. It will be procured through the International Fund for Ukraine and will be used to bolster Ukraine’s ability to protect its critical national infrastructure, civilian population and front-line personnel. The package will, for example, provide radars to help protect against indiscriminate Russian strikes, as well as guns and a significant amount of ammunition.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the best strategy for the people of Ukraine is to look towards a peace settlement? In this House we are used to Orwellian language, where we refer to defence and mean offence. The long-suffering people of Ukraine will benefit if there can be a peace settlement in which all Russian troops are withdrawn and some guarantee given to the Russians that the West has no hostile intentions towards them. It would, incidentally, be the end of Putin.

Ukraine: Military and Non-military Support

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord not just for his remarks but for their tenor, which is extremely helpful. The Secretary of State is going to meet with his Russian counterpart; that invitation has been accepted. Discussions are ongoing about timing and location. I am unable to say more about that at the moment, but concerted endeavour continues, as the noble Lord will be aware from the Prime Minister’s Statement in the other place earlier today. A very full range of activity was outlined, including engagement with major state leaders across the globe.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, Russia should be completely aware of the serious consequences of military intervention. Too much “Just you dare” talk can elicit the opposite reaction. Nations, like children, do not take kindly to being pushed into that position; they do not like to lose face, so we have to be very careful in the way we talk.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I would actually agree with the noble Lord, and observe that every effort has been made to invite Russia and President Putin to continue to engage. Whether that is through the NATO-Russia Council or direct communication from other global states, that initiative is there. But the problem arises because President Putin has amassed over 100,000 military on the borders of Ukraine. He has taken that decision, and that is what is causing the anxiety.

Royal Navy: Ships and Frigates

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Thursday 14th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that responsibility for sourcing steel for government-procured vessels rests with prime contractors; it should be in line with Cabinet Office procurement policy. It will be for the prime contractors to make their steel requirements known to the UK steel industry in order that firms may consider bidding.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the less money we spend on ships, the more we have to spend on social care. Does the Minister agree that, despite what we hear on the last night of the Proms, Britain has no God-given right to rule the waves? Strutting our importance across the world was questionable, but understandable in the 19th century. Today, it simply encourages others to do the same, with an increasing risk of serious conflict.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

This Government have a fundamental democratic responsibility to keep this nation secure and safe and to work with our allies and partners globally to contribute to a safer world. I have to say to the noble Lord, with the greatest respect, that it is very difficult to do that with an inadequate defence capability. We have seen over decades what happens when our defence capabilities drop below what is needed, frankly. I think it is a matter of great commendation for the United Kingdom, and the very skilled people in the shipyards throughout it, that we are forging ahead with this imaginative, innovative, constructive and effective shipbuilding programme. Many people in communities across the whole United Kingdom—or, as the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, said, the union, which is so precious to us all—are being supported by that endeavour.

Afghanistan: British Equipment and Training

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point that this is broader than the United Kingdom. As the Chamber will understand, the NATO alliance activity in Afghanistan—obviously by implication of what it was doing—raised an inevitable risk; do you help and try to support, which includes providing equipment? You cannot have a crystal ball to see into the future. As I said earlier, when it became clear the Taliban were taking control of Afghanistan and an evacuation plan had to be conceived, careful thought was given to controlling what was under our control, and that was the equipment that we had. I have explained the situation in relation to that.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, Afghanistan, like many of the world’s poorest countries, is, as we have just heard, awash with sophisticated weaponry supplied by Britain, the West and other “friendly countries”. Does the Minister agree that the UK’s adding to this misery by hosting a cosy-sounding arms fair to boost income through the killing of innocents is both repugnant and immoral?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

With all respect to the noble Lord, I do not recognise what he describes. I think we are all united in support, admiration and respect for what our troops did, as the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said, within the NATO operation in Afghanistan. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the people who served in Afghanistan—150,000 of them—in particular the 457 who lost their lives and those who sustained life-changing injuries. They have achieved improvements and change in Afghanistan that would not otherwise have been possible and I think we should celebrate that.

Trident Nuclear Programme

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Monday 7th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, is not here, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Singh of Wimbledon.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, nuclear deterrence may have made some sense during the Cold War of the 1950s. Today, there is no direct threat of invasion to our shores. In an inverted meaning of “defence”, we already have a military presence at 145 sites in 42 countries, a number second only to the United States. Does the Minister agree that this strutting of military might across the globe has nothing to do with defence?

[Baroness Goldie (Con) [V]]

With respect to the noble Lord, I completely disagree. I feel that the measure and calibre of the effectiveness of a deterrent has been reflected over the years. I said once before that the perhaps paradoxical character of a deterrent is that its lack of use confirms its efficacy of purpose. The threats we face are becoming ever more complex and diverse and are increasing in scale. We have the deterrent to deter the most extreme threats to our national security and way of life which cannot be deterred by other means. That is why the Government are absolutely clear that we need the nuclear deterrent for the foreseeable future.

Armed Forces Personnel from Commonwealth Countries

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for bringing the House’s attention to Remembrance Day, which is taking place in an unusual set of circumstances, but in no way does that diminish the significance of who we remember and why we remember them. In relation to her latter point about the campaign, the people affected within the Armed Forces are principally our Commonwealth veterans and our Gurkha veterans, and that is why there is currently an ongoing investigation into how we might better support them. I can reassure my noble friend that extensive help and support is already given to anyone joining the Armed Forces who may wish to consider their future at the time of discharge, and that includes information about what is involved in resettling or applying for naturalisation.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, Sikhs contributed out of all proportion to the Commonwealth war effort, with some families settling with family in Afghanistan following the partition of Punjab. Sadly, the Sikh community there has been literally decimated for standing up for the liberal values of gender equality and freedom of belief. Would the Minister agree that we should support the handful of families of Commonwealth service veterans desperately seeking to leave that country?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I join the noble Lord in paying tribute to the contribution from the Sikh community within the Armed Forces. They have been an inspiration, and our debt to them is immense. As for the particular circumstances confronting Sikh personnel within Afghanistan, the noble Lord will be aware that the UK Government maintain a presence in Afghanistan. Principally, our support there is provided to those who were former Afghan interpreters, but he makes an important point.

Afghanistan: Locally Employed Civilians

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 22nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord, as he is well aware, but I do not entirely agree with that analysis. He will be aware that the scheme first got off the ground back in 2012, but eligibility was restricted only to those serving on 19 December 2012. Quite rightly, that was recognised as inadequate, and that is why the scheme was extended in 2018 so that those who served from May 2006 and, as has previously been indicated, served for over a year but were made redundant became entitled to inclusion. Then, in 2019, we saw that cohort expanded by the addition of their families, which was a sensible and humane decision to make. We now see the expansion of the scheme, so I disagree with the interpretation that this is too little, too late. We have put in place not only the ex gratia scheme to help the interpreters but intimidation scheme support for those who have decided to remain in Afghanistan.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the ex gratia scheme for Afghan interpreters rightly recognises our debt of gratitude to those who risked their lives helping us, but the limiting criteria for assistance, such as the need to have served a year for eligibility to settle in the UK, led many—desperately fleeing the country, leaving their families—to seek refuge abroad. Does the Minister agree that we have what is called a Christian duty to help them?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

We have a duty to those who served and supported in Afghanistan—I think there were 2,900 interpreters in total—but, as I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, the Government are cognisant of their responsibilities. That is why they put in place what I think is now regarded as an effective and very supportive scheme with the ex gratia support.

As to the wider implications, at the end of the day we want to support where we can. The noble Lord will be aware that the scheme is in two parts. It offers relocation to the United Kingdom, but it also offers in-country training. That means people can receive five years of training and get a monthly stipend or can opt for an 18-month salary payment. That strikes a very good balance. We do not want to draw talent away from Afghanistan, which desperately needs that talent. Indeed, there is a most positive picture of that training having created doctors, dentists, teachers and engineers. I suggest to the noble Lord that we have balanced our responsibilities appropriately, recognised the contribution made and responded positively and effectively to the obligations on us as a country to make meaningful our respect for and appreciation of that contribution from the locally employed civilians.

Displaced Yazidis and Survivors of Daesh Violence

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord makes a very important point. I do not have detail as to the format of the conference, but I can certainly make further investigation and I shall undertake to write to him.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that constant armed interventions by members of the Security Council—I refer particularly to Russia, Britain and America—in factional disputes in the Middle East make the refugee crisis there infinitely worse? Does she further agree that it is time to look again at the role of the Security Council and to get some constraints on the way it operates?

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord raises an issue that is somewhat wider than the scripted Question on the Order Paper, but none the less it is an important point. The Government’s view is that the United Nations Security Council is an extremely important body. It might not always work to everyone’s satisfaction, but over the years it has proved to be a forum for very effective action, not least relating to the subject matter of the Question, which, as I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, led to international efforts to pass at the Security Council the very resolution that is helping desperate people in Iraq.

Jamal Khashoggi: United Nations Report

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Thursday 27th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend. As has been observed before in this Chamber, we have a balanced relationship with Saudi Arabia that allows us to be frank and open with it about our concerns and issues it needs to address. As I said to the noble Baroness, it is important that we respect the trial process taking place in Saudi Arabia, but nothing in our relationship with Saudi Arabia inhibits or stifles us in expressing profound concerns when we have them.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, by any measure Saudi Arabia is one of the most intolerant countries in the world. We have just heard about the brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi. There are summary beheadings, and public floggings of women who are simply trying to assert their rights, and this goes on and on. There is absolutely no freedom of religion or belief. Does our country not taint itself by cosying up to Saudi Arabia simply because of the sale of arms and oil?

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord rightly identifies a series of profound concerns, which we all share. He will be aware that Saudi Arabia remains a Foreign & Commonwealth Office human rights priority country, not least because of the use of the death penalty, women’s rights issues, and restrictions on freedom of expression, assembly and religion or belief. We regularly raise these human rights concerns with the Saudi Arabian authorities through a range of ministerial and diplomatic channels of communication, including our ambassador.

Jammu and Kashmir

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend makes a very pertinent comment. We recognise that there are deep human rights concerns in both India-administered Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir. Any allegations of human rights abuses are deeply concerning and must be investigated thoroughly, promptly and transparently. I am sure that her observation will be heard clearly.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

Kashmir is a large and beautiful state, which in normal circumstances could get by and do well on tourism alone. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, it has been caught in this crossfire between India and Pakistan. Should we not encourage both states—Pakistan and India—to move towards recognising near autonomy for Kashmir, with important trading and cultural links between both countries?

[Baroness Goldie]

That is an important observation. Both countries have much to gain from a more peaceful environment in Kashmir and both have much to lose if that peace is disrupted. As a Government, we have made it clear that we regard it to be the responsibility of both India and Pakistan to resolve this situation politically and, in doing so, to take into account the wishes of the people of Kashmir. However, both countries will recognise that there are gains to be made if peace can be achieved.

Genocide Prevention

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising an important issue. It is fundamental that where such atrocities have been committed, people are investigated and held to account. The noble Baroness will be aware that the United Kingdom has been working closely in endeavouring to facilitate the gathering of evidence to ensure that if matters are appropriate for reference to the International Criminal Court, there is a proper evidence base on which they can proceed. I do not have detailed information on the specific point the noble Baroness raises, but I shall undertake to look into that and respond to her.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that many countries turn a blind eye to genocide carried out by important trading partners or strategic allies? Will she further agree to ensure even-handedness with regard to those responsible for the mass killing of minorities? Responsibility for the pursuit of punitive action should be taken out of the hands of government and placed with an independent arbiter such as the High Court, as suggested in a debate in this House last September.

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord will be aware that the United Kingdom Government work closely with global partners in the consideration of such situations and in determining how best to address them. The system has demonstrated that trying to gather evidence is at the root of this, as evidence matters for whatever legal process we then choose to deploy. The United Kingdom Government take the view that the International Criminal Court is an important forum, and, as I indicated to the noble Baroness on the Liberal Democrat Benches, the Government have been working to try to facilitate getting hold of evidence and making sure that it is preserved; that will then facilitate prosecution.

Chagos Archipelago

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Baroness may be aware that in 2014 there was an independent detailed review and public consultation. That was carried out by KPMG. Resettlement was decided against on the grounds of feasibility, security, defence and cost. It looked carefully at the practicalities and ruled out resettlement due to the difficulty of establishing modern public services, with limited healthcare and education and the lack of economic opportunities and jobs.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has said that his country has a good human rights record. It is not part of a good human rights record to forcibly expel islanders—innocent people—to make way for an American base, or to encourage them by shooting the dogs with which they used to go fishing. That is not a good human rights record. Should we not now accept the international court’s judgment gracefully and apologise to the islanders?

[Baroness Goldie]

As I have already indicated, the Government will look at the detail of the advisory opinion very carefully. It is complex, and it needs analysis. I say to the noble Lord in the context of current times, as distinct from those of more than 50 years ago, that the United Kingdom has done a great deal to engage with Chagossians. As the noble Lord may be aware, we have funded a package of support over a period of ten years, starting in 2016. That has enabled visits by Chagossians to the ocean territory. One is going on at the moment. These visits have been very well received by participants, and there are plans for more visits. The UK has been endeavouring to engage with Chagossians and do something constructive to help them remain related to their cultural origins.

Saudi Arabia: Human Rights

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Wednesday 21st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

In relation to my noble friend’s first question, we do not comment on intelligence matters, as I think he will understand. Given the recent disclosures by Saudi Arabia in relation to the court proceedings against 11 people, the United Kingdom Government will monitor carefully how that trial proceeds. It is a sovereign, independent country with an independent justice system, but we will watch carefully what takes place. The noble Lord will be aware that we have said repeatedly that we are totally opposed to the use of the death penalty in any circumstances.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, as revealed in this morning’s news, President Trump has made it clear that, as far as he is concerned, considerations of trade are more important than human rights in Saudi Arabia. Can the Minister confirm that our Government do not share the same callous view?

[Baroness Goldie]

If the noble Lord is suggesting that, for some reason, the UK would prioritise trade over human rights, that would absolutely not happen. The relationships that we build with countries, including Saudi Arabia, through trade and security links and through bringing together institutions such as educational research establishments allow us to make greater progress with those countries on the issue of human rights.

Saudi Arabia: Executions

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Singh of Wimbledon

Tuesday 18th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I beg to differ with the interpretation of the noble Lord, Lord Collins. The United Kingdom’s insistent and consistent upholding of human rights is acknowledged and respected. We have been both consistent and insistent in our condemnation of the use of the death penalty in all countries that still use it, including Saudi Arabia. Our position is very clear, is known internationally and it is known domestically within the United Kingdom. We have profound concerns and we raise them. We exhort Saudi Arabia to have respect for human rights and for the organisations to which I referred that state clear views on the issue of the death penalty.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, why are the Government so quiet about trade with Saudi Arabia? Why do we export billions of pounds-worth of arms to Saudi Arabia when it is probably the greatest abuser of human rights in the world, against not only neighbouring countries but also its own people, including juveniles?

[Baroness Goldie]

My Lords, in diplomatic affairs a balance must always be struck. Those Members of the Chamber who have found themselves in government here and in other Administrations acknowledge that difficult balance. Saudi Arabia is an important ally of the United Kingdom. It is in our interest to support Saudi Arabia in its efforts to tackle regional challenges and create more stability. That helps to keep us safe both at home and abroad. We should not forget that intelligence we received in the past from Saudi Arabia has potentially saved hundreds of lives in the UK. Saudi Arabia is an important ally. That does not gag or inhibit us from expressing our strongly held views about abuses of human rights or deployment of the death penalty.