Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament: China Report

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 23rd October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Lord will be aware, our relationships with key partners provide us with platforms across a number of areas in the Indo-Pacific. We have a permanent presence in Brunei, and the British Defence Singapore Support Unit. He is correct that the United Kingdom and the United States share a defence facility in the British Indian Ocean Territory. That plays a vital role in our efforts to keep the region secure. We are very clear about its strategic significance and continue to have due regard to the significance of that location.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Question mentions the two integrated reviews. The first, in 2021, was a very good and helpful document but unfortunately came out before the Russian assault on Ukraine. The second, refreshing the first, was also excellent but unfortunately came out before the present Israel-Hamas horror and the complete change to the map of the Middle East. Can the Minister encourage the Cabinet Office not to be deterred from having a go at a third one, maybe in the early spring of next year, because these documents are genuinely valuable in showing our purpose and direction in a very fast-changing world?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his recognition of the strategic significance of these documents and the enduring messages which both contain and which continue to suggest a pungent relevance to events in the world today. The issues to which he refers are deeply troubling and complex. As to whether the Government would contemplate a further integrated review, I cannot say, but I acknowledge his concern at the extent of global tumult that we are witnessing today.

Wagner Group

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 11th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that although all eyes are understandably on Ukraine and Moscow regarding the Wagner Group, the noble Lord, Lord West, is right to raise the activities of the Russian militias and the Chinese right across the Sahel and throughout the whole of Africa? Will she therefore ensure that her colleagues and policymakers are really focused on this other war, as eyes tend to drift away to Ukrainian affairs, and make sure that we make every effort to reinforce security against the authoritarian regimes, which in many areas are winning? This is of particular note since 21 of the African countries being invaded by the Chinese are Commonwealth members.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. He will be aware that through the United Nations and our other relationships and partnerships, whether multilaterally or bilaterally, we are very cognisant of that threat. He is correct that Wagner is a pernicious and unwelcome presence in Africa, and absolutely right that there are other influences at play.

Ukraine: Ministry of Defence Strategy

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 15th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I commend the noble Lord on his change of position; many people will identify and sympathise with his stance. If I may seek to reassure him, it has been the UK Government’s very clear position in relation to trying to bring this war to an end that only by going into peace negotiations from a position of military, economic and diplomatic strength will Ukraine secure a strong, just and lasting sustainable peace. Sadly, we are not there yet. I seek to reassure him that within the MoD, through various channels, ambitious and very effective attempts have been made to disseminate information within Russia, with evidence that this information is being increasingly received and taken up. He makes the important point that a powerful and cogent persuader in relation to President Putin will come from within Russia, when his country realises that this is a disastrous enterprise that it has embarked upon.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, in any review of strategy will my noble friend and the whole Government bear in mind very carefully the role of China in this situation? China is of course a country that supports Russia, and we all know that Putin very badly needs its support, but the Chinese are absolutely determined to oppose his possible use of nuclear weapons, which he keeps threatening. Is this not a key factor in calling Putin’s bluff, and should it not encourage us to press on and give Ukraine every weapon it needs, including aircraft cover, to gain the upper hand as soon as possible?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I express complete agreement with the last point made by my noble friend. Yes, I agree with his proposition. We welcome China’s engagement with President Zelensky. We expect China, as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, to stand up for the United Nations charter and for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We hope China will use its influence with President Putin to persuade Russia to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops and hopefully bring an end to the war.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 2nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Obviously we remain engaged with Ukraine on its immediate needs and how best we, in conjunction with partners, can respond to them. I am not at liberty to disclose operational matters, for reasons widely understood. We constantly monitor the situation, and we will continue to do whatever we can to support Ukraine as it tries to repel this illegal invader.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Will my noble friend use her influence to see whether, in future Ukraine Statements, we could learn a little more about the state of internal morale inside Russia in the face of the appalling slaughter, which is almost reminiscent of the First World War? The level of morale in Russia itself, and the pressures on the Government, may be the decisive factor in ensuring that this hideous horror comes to an end. Does she see any comparison with the Russian mood when Russian troops had to retreat from failure in Afghanistan, which of course helped to bring about the collapse of the whole Soviet Union in those days?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Many people will be in sympathy with the important point made by my noble friend. We do everything that we can through intelligence outlets to try to ascertain what is happening in Russia—what the mood is and what the sentiment is. It is difficult to elicit any specific information, apart from a general observation that there is now evidence that morale is being impacted by this illegal war in Ukraine. Increasingly within Russia, as a consequence of that war, the brutal effect upon families who have lost loved ones or seen loved ones seriously injured is beginning to tell its own story. My noble friend makes an important point. I wish that I had some more specific instrument available to me to ascertain in detail what he asks. We continue to monitor the situation as best we can.

UK Undersea Infrastructure: Hostile Activity

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 25th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I in no way disagree with the noble Lord’s final conclusion. It is recognised across government, which is why a number of government departments have a role to play in protecting that critical national infrastructure. We certainly regard these installations as essential to our national infrastructure and monitor a variety of risks that they face. The noble Lord will understand that these subsea cables are predominantly owned and operated privately, but key departments work closely with their owners. Supporting that is the national risk register, the National Protective Security Authority and the National Cyber Security Centre. There is a comprehensive framework to support the private owners and operators of these cables, but the MoD has and discharges a critical role in monitoring threat.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, if, as is reported in the newspapers today, the plan is now to turn the whole north Atlantic into one gigantic system of wind farms on an international basis, the effect would be to turn the whole seabed of the north Atlantic into a cat’s cradle of vital undersea electric power lines. Are we prepared, in moving forward to this fossil-free electric world that we are heading for, to safeguard those lines, since they could, if interfered with, put at risk not merely 25% of our electricity supply but our entire electricity supply when the wind is blowing?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I think we all agree that the overall objective of increasing our usage of renewable energy is laudable and to be commended, but my noble friend is correct that the installation of infrastructure brings with it an obvious degree of risk. As I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord West, across government there are a range of departments with responsibilities in this field. As far as the MoD is concerned, we actively monitor threat. When it comes to looking at, for example, Russian activity in either the Baltic Sea or the North Sea, noble Lords will understand that we regularly assess by our maritime presence what is happening. The Russians know that we know they know what we are doing.

Ukraine: Russian Drone Attacks

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, although concerns about the use of drones are justified, are not both sides—Ukraine and Russia—using them, the Ukrainians very cleverly? A year or so ago, the Azerbaijanis showed that drones can inflict terrific damage on all tanks, unless they are very clever. Is it not evident that drones really are going to be the weapon of the future and that most significant armies are developing them? Can the Minister assure us that, although we are not involved in the ground fighting in Ukraine, we are building up adequate supplies here in Britain? Can she also assure us that we are making them ourselves—or are we importing them?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I have observed before in this Chamber that drones—unmanned aerial vehicles—are part of the UK’s defence capability. My noble friend makes an interesting point. The war in Ukraine has been instructive as to how current warfare is developing and what new stratagems and forms of equipment are necessary to conduct it. He is quite right that unmanned aerial vehicles have a role to perform.

Mali: UN Peacekeeping Mission

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My understanding is that a total of £79.85 million has currently been committed to the deployment through the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund. I emphasise that the decision to withdraw is nothing to do with money—I wish to make that clear to the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. It is to do with a fundamental change in the operational environment, which means that we are trying to support a peacekeeping mission when the host country is not prepared to co-operate on that objective and is enlisting the help of parties that have a directly inimical attitude to such an objective.

As to future funding, we have to look at the Accra initiative and see what unfolds from that. We have not yet asked His Majesty’s Treasury to fund that initiative. When we know more about what is needed and how much funding we will apply for, we will make sure that this is an agreed, cross-government effort. The noble and gallant Lord will remember that Operation Newcombe, our contribution to Mali, was resourced by two different funds. It was resourced by the special reserve for our support to Operation Barkhane and the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund for our contribution to the MINUSMA mission.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, we must all feel deep sorrow for the people of Mali if they are to be left to the tender mercies of the Wagner Group, as looks all too likely. I should have thought the Government of Mali would rue the day they got in with that lot. Can my noble friend elaborate, which she is very good at doing, on the phrases in the Statement and exactly what they mean? What is the implication of

“rebalancing our deployment alongside France, the EU and other like-minded allies”

and

“preventing further contagion of the insurgency”—[Official Report, Commons, 14/11/22; col. 401.]

in a whole string of countries in the region? Does that mean we will redeploy some of our troops, military effort and equipment to these other countries? Will we concentrate just on those that happen to be in the Commonwealth, such as Togo and Ghana, or will we put troops in Niger? Can she give us just a little more indication, even though decisions have yet to be made, on what the broad aim is—to leave troops in the area or to take them all away?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am not sure that it is possible to give a specific response to my noble friend’s question; reverting to the Accra initiative, I think a great deal of discussion has to be had as to how we take forward a concerted desire to support these west African states, with a mixture of military intervention—or military support rather—if that is required, and advice and support for the political or economic regimes. A number of factors have to be taken into account. Mali is, of course, an observer member of the Accra initiative along with Niger. In total, the initiative represents a very healthy and promising group of countries. One of the strategic challenges to be hammered out is just what my noble friend referred to: at the end of the day, what is it that the African states are looking for, and what can we do to support that endeavour?

I am not being evasive; it is just that I think a great deal more discussion has to ensue before clarity begins to emerge about some of these strategic objectives. My noble friend will be aware that we already do a lot in west Africa. We provide support in Nigeria and in the Chad basin, we are supporting the armed forces of Cameroon and we are working closely with the Ghanaian armed forces to develop ongoing counterterrorism training packages. At the end of the day, the threat of terrorism in the Sahel has not disappeared; it is there. Sadly, the presence of Wagner is likely to exacerbate the situation rather than facilitate solutions; that is another important component of everything that has to be discussed.

Royal Navy: Conduct towards Women

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very important point. I think it is important to remember that nearly 90% of the respondents to the committee would recommend the Armed Forces to other women. I found that reassuring, but that is no reason for complacency on the part of the MoD. I can say to the noble Baroness that over the past year, since we responded to the Select Committee report, enormous changes have been introduced: we have zero-tolerance policies on sexual offending—people will be discharged if they are convicted; we have a zero-tolerance policy on behaviour below the criminal threshold—if they are found guilty of unacceptable sexual behaviour, there is a presumption of discharge; we have also dealt with the issue of instructors and trainees—any sexual abuse in that relationship leads to mandatory discharge; we have also vastly improved the service complaints system.

While it is discomforting for the MoD to see these negative reports appearing, it does mean—and I have first-hand information about this—that women with increased confidence in the complaints system are now reporting behaviour. I welcome that. It may not be pleasant for the MoD to hear about these things, but I would much rather that women had the confidence to bring these incidents out into the open, so we can address them.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, these are obviously deeply serious matters, whether all the allegations and reports in the media are correct or not. Can the Minister reassure the House that the work of the investigating team mentioned in the Statement—and also what she calls the large-scale changes in policy in the defence area in the last year—are really going to lead to meaningful, lasting and decisive change?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I very much hope that they will. I have described to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, where the teeth are in a lot of the changes that have now been made. There are real repercussions for miscreants now if they transgress and fail to observe the high standards of behaviour that we expect. But perhaps helpfully—to reassure my noble friend—we are in fact now publishing the annual reports on sexual complaints within the Armed Forces. We published in March of this year the single service sexual harassment surveys. We have also instigated a D&I programme to monitor and measure the efficacy of our initiatives, to make sure that they are delivering. In April of this year, we mandated climate assessments across Defence, and that is to try and ensure—as my noble friend rightly identifies—that the changes we are making are delivering the improvements we hope.

Estonia: UK Troop Levels

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I reassure my noble friend that we work closely with our friends in the Baltics, not least in Norway and Sweden and with our other presence in that area. He will be aware that, with our NATO commitments, we are very much committed to having a mobile and enhanced lethality in the area. As I said to the noble Lord on the Liberal Democrat Benches, that is designed to ensure that, whatever threat confronts us, we are able to play our part in seeing it off.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, we have every reason to support Estonia, having helped it regain its independence in 1922. However, is not Estonia’s immediate, real problem that it is being bombarded every hour of every day by Russian cyberattacks and fake attacks which aim to undermine and demoralise the whole country? Can the Minister assure us that this kind of defence—which, in the modern world, is probably the most important of all—is being thoroughly reinforced by us to enable Estonia to withstand Russian undermining?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

That is a indeed a very important component of the threat that we face. My noble friend will be aware that assisting countries to deal with cyberattacks is, again, part of our contribution to our UK and NATO commitments.

Ukraine: NATO

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate that the consequences of the drone attack on Kyiv have been devastating. I think that everyone has watched with horror as again civilians are targeted, people are killed and others are seriously injured. The right reverend Prelate will be aware that part of the United Kingdom’s support to Ukraine has been air defence systems. NATO, plus other bilateral states, with Ukraine, have been doing their best to support Ukraine in what it needs. We are cognisant of the danger presented by this form of attack by Russia. We are also aware that the equipment supplied to date has been greatly assisting Ukraine in seeing off this kind of threat.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

I think one way of discouraging the use of these murderous drone weapons supplied by Iran is to make it clear to Iran that this could have very serious and disastrous consequences for Iran itself. I want to ask my noble friend whether she would encourage at any such meeting that is going to take place a very careful examination of the changing position of China and foreign policy experts in Beijing. Has she heard reports that China is becoming increasingly worried that its control and influence over Mr Putin is diminishing, and that it is very fearful that he is going to use tactical nuclear weapons? Will she make sure that we make full use of any change of opinion in China? Without China’s support, there really is a good chance that Moscow might change direction.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. I reassure him that the UK continues to engage with China at all levels in Beijing, London and the United Nations to make clear that the world is watching what China chooses to say and do and whether its actions contribute to peace and stability or it chooses to fuel aggression. We expect China to stand up for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and to uphold its commitment to the United Nations charter. It has an important role to play and we want to be sure, as a sovereign state, that we keep open the lines of communication so that we can convey the very relevant points to which my noble friend refers.

Ukraine: UK Military Support

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 11th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, extensive supplies of medical equipment have been dispatched and I understand that these are proving of huge support and assistance to the Ukrainian armed forces. As to what is currently in the system and what is still to come, I have no detail before me but I undertake to write to the noble Baroness with more specific information.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, this is going to be a long haul. Is not one of the best immediate ways of helping Ukraine to cut off the billions that are still flowing into the Russian exchequer to help Putin finance child murder in the Ukraine area, and is not the quickest way to do that to find other sources for the millions of barrels of oil a day and to increase gas, which would immediately reduce prices and undermine the Russian position? Are we, as a coalition, making real efforts to press the producers who have available flowing capacity to do that, because clearly the EU is divided and the UN is paralysed, for reasons that we well know?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I do not in any way diminish the importance of my noble friend’s question. It is somewhat wide of my responsibilities but I am certain that the matters to which he refers, some of which have already been addressed not just by the United Kingdom Government but by the EU and other global partners, are certainly having some effect on the Russian economy. As for the more specific matters to which he refers, these are matters for consideration by the Government as a whole. However, in the daily consideration of the situation in Ukraine, every option continues to be looked at, and I am sure that my noble friend’s words will resonate.

Ukraine: Military and Non-military Support

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Obviously, the noble Baroness will realise that the focus of attention at the moment is on the aggressive and unacceptable behaviour of President Putin in relation to a particular state: Ukraine. We continue as members of NATO to make our full contribution to the forward presence in the Baltic. That has been a very well received initiative which we continue to support.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

In gathering together a robust alliance against Russian threats and bullying, will my noble friend assure us that we will include the rising and great powers of Asia and the Middle East, because they are the ones whose voices Russia will listen to most closely?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

There has been a wide programme of engagement, not least by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence, with colleagues across the globe, but also by the Foreign Secretary. There has been a desire to ensure that we canvass as wide a position of views as possible. Everyone understands that the proposals and activity of President Putin are completely unacceptable. There is a concerted voice asking him please to de-escalate.

Defence: Type 45 Destroyers

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 21st January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I am afraid I do not agree with the noble and gallant Lord. I refer him to the national ship- building strategy, which made some pivotal recommendations upon which the Government have been acting. For example, the state-of-the-art, new Type 31 frigates will all be ready by 2028. This is an exciting development. Three of the Type 26 frigates are already being built on the Clyde. That is a huge addition to the frigate programme. As I pointed out to the noble Lord, Lord West, the Navy is expanding for the first time since World War II.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend noticed that the United States Navy is planning to build a whole generation of unmanned drone technology-type frigates and destroyers to police the Atlantic, as well as unmanned drone-driven submarines? In the light of this new technology, which is coming along very fast, will any of our ships of the kind we are now discussing still be in date?

[Baroness Goldie]

The answer is yes. The innovation of unmanned equipment is important. My noble friend will be aware that we deploy both unarmed and armed aerial equipment, and these operate according to very strict protocols. As to the evolving face of defence and the tasks which lie ahead, we shall always be imaginative and responsive to what we see as the challenges. We shall do everything we can to respond to these challenges and to defend the interests of the United Kingdom.

Syria: British Armed Forces

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Lord for making a very important point. He is absolutely right: this is a situation of turbulence and uncertainty, and implicit in that is great potential risk and danger. The United Kingdom has always been clear in relation to Syria as a whole that we want a political solution. We are focusing our attention on trying to deal with Daesh. Turkey of course remains an important ally within NATO. It may be reassuring to know that the Secretary of State for Defence is meeting NATO allies today and tomorrow, and north-east Syria will be very much on the agenda.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, can we assume from my noble friend’s answers to the noble Lord, Lord West, that we continue to support our old friends and allies the Kurds in their efforts to fight ISIS, despite the fact that Turkey and Russia are now taking over control of the region?

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend raises an important point. We will be looking very closely at Monday’s agreement between Turkey and Russia, including any impact on the local population. I make clear to the Chamber that the United Kingdom will not recognise any demographic change in Syria brought about as a result of deliberate attempts to force population changes. We are very clear that parties need to act on a properly negotiated and sensible basis.

Gulf of Oman

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 11th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

That is exactly what the United Kingdom Government are engaged in. As I have illustrated, we engage in that programme in various ways.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot help wondering whether it was such a good idea for us to raid the Iranian oil tanker in Gibraltar in the first place. Obviously, we want to stop oil getting to Assad—although probably he can get all the oil he wants from the Russians—but are we not supposed to be on the same side as the Iranians on the question of nuclear proliferation and control? Can we have a firm assurance that we did this not just on the say-so of Washington but on our own initiative?

[Baroness Goldie]

Let me assure my noble friend. First, we did this at the request of the Government of Gibraltar, to assist with a sanctions operation. Action was taken because of where the oil was going—to a sanctioned Syrian entity, as a body of evidence attested—not because of where it came from. The vessel was boarded and detained in British Gibraltar territorial waters and we were pleased to assist the Government of Gibraltar in acceding to their request.

UK’s Ambassador to the USA: Resignation

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 11th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Lord, who speaks with a special experience of these matters. Democracy requires elected politicians and Governments, and Governments cannot operate without competent, professional and independent civil servants. That is axiomatic for any Government in any part of the world to operate effectively and well. I share the noble Lord’s sentiments that that independence and professionalism must be respected. He is correct in the tributes he pays, and I thank him for them; I am sure they are shared across the House. Any Government will understand the merit of observing the virtues of an independent, competent diplomatic service and would want to do everything to uphold them.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as the President of the United States added a few gratuitous and personal remarks about our Prime Minister, should we not stand back and tell him to go and relax and play a game of golf? His aides often reveal that his grumbles and irritations are short-lived, and he tends to forget after a day or two what is worrying him, or he has a new worry. In these circumstances, clever diplomacy might suggest that, if we wait a while, things will cool down and we could consider reappointing an excellent ambassador to the United States called Sir Kim Darroch.

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend speaks with great wisdom. I am not sure that I am qualified to be an adviser or a counsellor to the President of the United States of America. We have a long-standing and strong relationship with the United States that transcends Prime Ministers and Presidents. That relationship is fundamentally strong and important. It is manifest in various successful collaborations, co-ordinations and partnerships in which we have engaged. I am certain that the Governments of both the United Kingdom and the United States will want to do everything possible to sustain that important and strong relationship.

Jamal Khashoggi: United Nations Report

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 27th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I pay tribute to her role in the special rapporteur’s investigation. She is right that this country is associated with the robustness of the rule of law and with a widely —indeed, globally—acknowledged judiciary. However, the important point here is that, whatever the noble Baroness may feel about the shortcomings of the process, there is a legal process in Saudi Arabia, and it is the United Kingdom’s judgment that it is correct to let that process run its course. We are observing the trial along with our international partners. It is important to let that process conclude. As I said earlier, we continue to work with our global partners, not least with our friends at the United Nations, and we will consider how we can act collaboratively. The noble Baroness is correct that the report raises a range of serious issues but there is a process that has to be respected and allowed to run its course.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, has clearly done a very good job in this investigation along with her two colleagues, as one would expect. Can we be assured, in view of the established close links that we in this country have with Riyadh, that we are pressing the Saudi authorities to be as open, frank and co-operative as possible in any further judicial inquiry, not least in their own interests?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend. As has been observed before in this Chamber, we have a balanced relationship with Saudi Arabia that allows us to be frank and open with it about our concerns and issues it needs to address. As I said to the noble Baroness, it is important that we respect the trial process taking place in Saudi Arabia, but nothing in our relationship with Saudi Arabia inhibits or stifles us in expressing profound concerns when we have them.

Rwanda: CHOGM 2020

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 12th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The UK is indeed helping to meet the Commonwealth’s commitment to halve malaria cases and deaths by 2023. Between 2017 and 2019, the UK contributed £1.2 billion to the Global Fund partnership organisation between government, civil society and the private sector that operates in 24 Commonwealth countries. The noble Baroness raises an important point that I am sure will remain before the UK Government as CHOGM comes nearer.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as in the register. Is not the best way to help Rwanda, as we pass over the chairmanship to that country in June 2020, to bequeath to it much stronger Commonwealth institutions that provide a much better space for civic society, the private sector and professional connectivity, which is the main driving force of the Commonwealth today and tomorrow?

[Baroness Goldie]

I pay tribute to my noble friend’s undoubted authority on this issue. Yes, we think the Commonwealth should be in good functioning order, and in many respects it is. However, the noble Lord is of course aware of concerns expressed about how it is currently operating in relation to the secretariat. That is an important issue, which we would like Foreign Ministers to take forward. One would anticipate that at the next meeting of Foreign Ministers it may very well be on the agenda.

Brunei: Anti-LGBT Laws

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The Minister with responsibility for the Commonwealth, my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, spoke to the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth last Thursday. She is already in contact with the Government of Brunei and is working through bilateral and Commonwealth channels.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend listen very carefully to what the noble Lords, Lord Cashman and Lord Lexden, have said? Most Islamic scholars now recognise that of course the Sultan and Brunei are on the wrong track in their interpretation of Sharia. Given that and as we are the chair in office of the Commonwealth, will she strongly support the current efforts of the Commonwealth, which I do not think are being fully publicised, to bring to the attention of Brunei that it is on the wrong track and to achieve some radical change and a better understanding before the horrors of this policy are worked out?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for a pertinent observation. The Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group is currently chaired by Kenya, and the UK is a member by virtue of being chair in office. That group provides a space for sensitive discussions. By convention, I am not at liberty to confirm which specific issue we will raise in that forum, but I do not think a crystal ball is required to predict that this issue may be of interest.

Commonwealth

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Lord for raising an important question. Each of the four thematic areas identified at CHOGM—fairness, sustainability, prosperity and security—is overseen by the UK Commonwealth envoy. Quarterly steering board meetings assess progress and beneath that is a raft of other structures. I reassure the noble Lord that the matter is under constant review and a structure ensures that the money reaches where it is intended to go.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest, as in the register. Does my noble friend agree that the modern Commonwealth is not just about governance and is not a treaty organisation at all? Today, it is just as much a vast network of professions, civic agencies, universities, schools and every kind of professional and scientific or medical interest. This side of it is, in many ways, more important than the headlines we read about treaties, communiqués and so on. As we are the chair in office, does she undertake that we will do all we possibly can to strengthen this side of the Commonwealth, because it is a terrific and major transmission mechanism for Britain’s influence and soft power in a fast-changing world?

[Baroness Goldie]

I suspect everyone in the Chamber will entirely agree with my noble friend. The Commonwealth is an extraordinary organisation. With over 2.4 billion people, it is home to one-third of the world’s population, 60% of whom are under 30, so my noble friend is right to talk about the potential for influence and opportunity. Underpinning it all is the important component that its people are united by a shared history, language, values and legal system. It is a very relevant, strong and commendable structure.

Chagos Archipelago

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

This is an interesting and challenging situation. The United Kingdom Government are very clear that, while we do not share the view of others that this is a court judgment—we take the view that it is an advisory opinion—we will look at that opinion and analyse it carefully. We are certainly prepared to engage with Mauritius, but there are other considerations. The British Indian Ocean Territory is still needed for defence and security purposes. It is being used to combat some of the most difficult problems of the 21st century, including terrorism, international criminality, instability and piracy.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, bearing in mind the valid point made by the noble Lord, Lord Luce, that the American base on Diego Garcia could continue for many years ahead, if we are to consider America’s and our joint defence interests carefully in coming years and look at the American argument sympathetically, can we make sure that the Americans in turn, including the Washington policymakers, pay a little more attention to our interests and work with us in that area in a more constructive way than they have in the past?

[Baroness Goldie]

I think the noble Lord’s observation will be noted. It is an important point that, in the conduct of international affairs, there has to be mutual respect and recognition, and if people cannot work together, they are very unlikely to be able to reach sensible conclusions and agreement on important issues.

Nigeria: Fulani

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 6th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for that pertinent question. There is an awareness and apprehension that much of the armoury is illegal and circulating illegally. That makes it difficult to track and to understand where the armaments are procured from. The UK Government are aware of the situation, as are the Nigerian Government. I note his observations and I shall certainly make sure that that point is pursued.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, it is worth remembering that Nigeria is one of the biggest and most active members of the Commonwealth network. Will the Minister reassure us that Her Majesty’s Government will use the good offices of the Commonwealth as far as they possibly can in addressing this horrific situation and seeking to improve it?

[Baroness Goldie]

The Commonwealth is an increasingly important organisation in relation to issues such as this, and my noble friend is correct that Nigeria is an important member of it. It is also important that other operators—France, the US and the United Kingdom—engage with the Nigerian Government to do whatever we can to assist them in addressing the clashes. As the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, indicated in her Question, these clashes are leading to scenes which are hideous and absolutely repugnant.

Russia and Ukraine: Seizure of Naval Vessels

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 26th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that this is all part of a strategy? The Russians will never leave Ukraine alone. This is all part of a bigger plan to increase the reliance of western Europe, particularly Germany, on Russian gas, to undercut the Americans and to cut Ukraine out of the transmission system. Does she accept that this is Russia’s strategic aim and that we should recognise it in both our foreign policy and energy policy?

[Baroness Goldie]

It is certainly indicative of a grave attitude to a sovereign country. There has been global condemnation of the illegal annexation of Crimea, and the response of the international community to this recent breach of international law is important. The international community, in the form of the United Nations Security Council, the OSCE and NATO, is well placed with its member participants to consider an appropriate response to this unacceptable conduct.

South China Sea: Royal Navy Deployment

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 1st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Has my noble friend seen some reports of signs of a rapprochement between Japan and China despite 80 years of enormous enmity and many disputes, including, obviously, disputes about the South China Sea? Does she agree that these closer relations, as they are called, between the second and third largest industrial powers in the world, which are both immense markets for our future exports, are thoroughly to be welcomed, and that HMG should be supporting them very strongly indeed?

[Baroness Goldie]

We warmly welcome any suggestion that there may be an improvement in relationships between two important countries such as my noble friend describes. He is absolutely correct that both countries are important trading destinations for the UK. In fact, China has become the UK’s largest goods and services export destination outside of Europe and North America, so if there is a rapprochement between China and Japan, that is to be welcomed.

Russia: Vostok 2018 Military Exercises

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 13th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

In conjunction with our allies, not least our partners in NATO, we regularly review what is happening. As the noble Baroness will be aware, we are an important component in the Baltic presence, and with NATO we regularly review what the challenges are and respond to them as circumstances require.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that with an economy the size of that of Texas, the Russian Federation’s real power does not really lie in these symbolic exercises and what are probably fake figures—I understand that they have been inflated by at least 100%—but much more in the electronic area and in cyber intervention, which can do real, immediate and devastating damage to the economies of the West such as ours?

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend makes a very important and perceptive point: that is a development to which the Government are very sensitive and about which they have been extremely vigilant. It is certainly something under the surveyance of the Modernising Defence Programme.

Defence: UK Military Status

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 26th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

There should almost be a pause for acclamation. I am inclined to respond by asking: where has the Labour Party been? Certainly not at the defence races. While welcome, this belated conversion would be much more convincing if the Labour Party were led by someone who actually believes in all of that. I am afraid to say that the current leader of Labour, Mr Jeremy Corbyn, most assuredly does not. For the avoidance of doubt, the Government are categorically committed to retaining the UK’s position as a tier 1 defence nation.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, like the Minister, I am mildly puzzled about why we are discussing this issue now, when we are going to spend the whole afternoon discussing exactly the same one in relation to our NATO contribution. That said, does she agree that the Prime Minister is totally right to question what our top-level and best defence and security package for this nation will fully cost? Is the cost best pushed out in relation to ever more expensive military weapons, or are there more advanced technologies and wider issues which should also attract expenditure in order to keep this nation safe?

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend is absolutely correct to refer to the different challenges and the new age in which we live. Of course we must be realistic about what we think is appropriate as our defence capability. As I said earlier, the Government have a record of which to be very proud, but of course we have to look at what we are spending and what we are getting for the spend. In the new age that confronts us the real test is: what can we do and how and where can we do it?

Korean Peninsula

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Obviously Japan and South Korea are most in the front line and most immediately in danger, and our thoughts are very much with them, but does my noble friend agree that after those two the country most threatened by, and most in danger from, any nuclear escalation in the Korean peninsula—although it may not appreciate it—is the People’s Republic of China? Is not the reality of the future that the necessary force and pressure on Pyongyang—which, frankly, I think will require more than sanctions and UN resolutions—will come only from the combined and co-operative efforts of Washington, Beijing and Moscow, and possibly Tokyo as well? They alone are in a position to work on North Korea in ways that do not create even more of a disaster and corner Pyongyang into even more violence, instead being somehow able to bring pressure to bear beyond what they are doing already. Does my noble friend accept that, although we and the United Nations may do our very best—all the things that she has described are useful—the real pressure will come only from those four capitals and that we must use our good offices as best we can from this end of the planet to encourage and interpret, with our skill and tradition, but that basically the power of very strong persuasion will be the only thing that brings Kim Jong-un and his gang of generals to any kind of reality and to any kind of containment and pause?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for his question. I agree that China is pivotal to this, and that point was reiterated by the Prime Minister in her response to these developments. Importantly, as has become apparent at United Nations level, China and, for example, Russia are very clear about the unacceptable nature of what has happened. I think the adjective used in the Statement was that China was “unsparing” in its comments. My noble friend makes a very good point. Of course China is pivotal, as are Japan, Russia and the United States, but I also go back to what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire. There has to be some kind of cohesive international partnership to try to deal with this, and I think that the United Kingdom plays an important role in that. No one country has a monopoly of influence. China is extremely influential—there is no shadow of a doubt about that—but it is by acting in concert, as the global powers are currently doing, as manifested by the United Nations resolutions, that we stand the best chance of applying a squeeze to the money revenue stream which Kim Jong-un relies on to fund his illegal and apparently uncontrolled nuclear programme. Therefore, I am not totally at variance with my noble friend’s important point, but I reiterate that what we do as a country and as a Government has to be in partnership with our global colleagues, and I think we are doing that effectively at United Nations level. It is early days to judge just how much the sanctions are biting but all the evidence is that that bite is there and that it will become even firmer.

Brexit: European Parliament Resolution

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

That is something which I believe is an alien concept to the Liberal Democrats.

Everyone is realistic about the timeframe pressure of two years. I do not agree that it is impossible to negotiate a sensible deal within that timeframe any more than I think the EU thinks it is impossible to do it. I think the EU is being constructive. The European Parliament debate and resolution show that the EU is being constructive. That is a great encouragement for the United Kingdom, and we will now proceed with these negotiations in a constructive and optimistic spirit.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that it is not just with the European Parliament that we need a constructive concord? We need constructive and intensified relations with the Parliaments of the other 27 members and, indeed, some of the local Parliaments as well. This is a major task, but in this digital age it is very much easier than it would have been in the past. Will she encourage all kinds of contact between our Parliament and the Parliaments of the other member states of the European Union?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for his observation. It is a positive contribution. It should be made crystal clear that the conduit for the negotiations has to be between the United Kingdom Government and the EU Commission. That is the silo, if you like, for the negotiations. That does not prejudice the normal diplomatic discourse and the desirable conversations that will take place between the United Kingdom and other member states. That is an ongoing and healthy process, but we should be clear that the formal channel for the negotiations is between the UK Government and the EU Commission.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 1st March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Goldie]

My Lords, I am aware that we have not heard from the Labour Benches at all in respect of this group of amendments and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, has her name attached to one of the amendments.

Zimbabwe

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 8th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

On the general front, in relation to Zimbabwe’s indebtedness to the World Bank, the UK is party to that organisation and we have made it clear that the indebtedness must be cleared. However, that will not of itself trigger a resumption of relations. We have made it clear that there has to be progress on the very type of reforms to which I alluded earlier. We are endeavouring to support the people of Zimbabwe, who are vulnerable and in a fragile condition. I referred earlier to some of the support that the British Government have been able to provide. We have been able to provide food security for over 1 million people; we have been able to help hundreds of thousands of children to attend primary school; we have been able to assist with clean water and sanitation projects; and we have been helping to reduce the maternal mortality ratio. Those are all moves that we achieve and on which we make progress not by dealing directly with the Zimbabwean Government but by using our implementing partners and other agencies to deliver help to the very people who need support but currently do not get it from their own Government.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, when the time comes, but not before that time, will the Government encourage the Commonwealth authorities and the Commonwealth Secretariat to consider welcoming Zimbabwe back into the Commonwealth family of nations?

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend’s aspiration is positive. Ultimately, there would be a desire to do that but the Zimbabwean Government would have to achieve a very great deal before we were able to enter into a more formal relationship. There is an overdue need for serious fundamental reform. We have to have evidence that the Government in Zimbabwe are themselves serious about addressing these reforms, and we need to see visible and tangible evidence of that before any further relationship can be contemplated.

Turkey: Judicial Services

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 21st July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord makes an important point. It is not yet clear who was behind the coup attempt and it is unhelpful to speculate on that. However, in relation to the death penalty, I repeat what I said earlier this week in this Chamber. Suggestions that the death penalty may return are very worrying. The Foreign Secretary and other international leaders have emphasised the need for calm. Let me be utterly clear: UK policy on the death penalty is that we oppose it in all circumstances.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Will my noble friend first accept my good wishes on her new role and pass on to her colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, my good wishes that she has become Minister for the Commonwealth, which is assuming a central place in British foreign policy?

On Turkey, will the Minister accept that with all the difficulties that are happening there we need a stable Turkish ally, if only to cut off the one lifeline for ISIS as the allies gradually close in? This is a crucial moment to do that; we must cut off all ISIS linkages along the Turkish/Syrian border. Will she also accept that, although it may sound dim at the moment, for us in Britain the best hope is to work for a dialogue on reform with the present regime because we can be pretty sure that the alternative would be very much worse?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for his good wishes and I shall undertake to be an emissary and convey his good wishes to my colleague and noble friend Lady Anelay. He has made an important point about the position of Turkey. It is of course a NATO ally and a valued partner of the United Kingdom. He also rightly referred to Turkey’s invaluable contribution to the international campaign against Daesh, as a member of the global coalition committed to defeating it. I reassure him of the UK’s cognisance of the important contribution Turkey is making in that respect, and again that will be reflected in all our dialogue and discourse.