Hong Kong Protests
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Garel-Jones
Baroness Goldie
With reference to the last part of the noble Baroness’s question, yes of course we do. The United Kingdom is regarded as one of the most significant participants in United Nations proceedings. China’s interpretation of the situation is not one that we agree with. It is an interpretation which is at variance with the facts and the law. What we have done at the most senior level—indeed, the Prime Minister made the point repeatedly to Chinese Vice-Premier Hu on 17 June—is to say that we expect China to abide by its obligations, and we will continue to take seriously our obligations to monitor the implementation of the joint declaration. It is worth observing that we have a relationship with China which is broad and deep, and it brings enduring benefit to both countries. But we have a constructive dialogue and we are clear and direct where we disagree. Above all, our policy on China remains clear-eyed and evidence-based; it is rooted in our values and our interests. We will continue to stand by the joint declaration, and we will make that view robustly to the People’s Republic of China.
Lord Garel-Jones (Con)
To what extent does my noble friend the Minister feel that the Legislative Council in Hong Kong is in any sense aware of the depth of feeling among the Hong Kong people? Does she not agree that attending to these concerns is not only in the wider interest but in the interests of China itself?
Baroness Goldie
I thank my noble friend for his wise and profound observation. It is clear that the Hong Kong Legislative Council and the Chief Executive were taken aback by the potent sentiment expressed in the recent demonstrations. It is a positive development that they have suspended the extradition Bill, which seems a sensible precaution to take. But my noble friend is quite right that anything which undermines Hong Kong’s future success and prosperity, and hence its contribution to China, inevitably affects China and has an impact on that country. I would therefore have thought that China had an interest in ensuring that Hong Kong remains a prosperous, successful and viable economy, enjoying its strong rule of law and widely acclaimed judicial independence.
Occupied Palestinian Territories
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Garel-Jones
Baroness Goldie
My Lords, in response to the latter part of her question, the noble Baroness will be aware of the United Kingdom’s long-standing position, which is that we support a two-state settlement and we want to see that happen. We believe that a political settlement is the only way to bring progress for the two communities. On the issue of trade, she raises an important point. Trade is important, not just for the United Kingdom and Israel, but also for the United Kingdom and the Palestinian Authority. She is aware that our total trade in goods and services with the PA, for 2017, was £17 million. We entered into a new trade agreement with Israel just last month, and a separate one with the Palestinian Authority. The Israeli trade agreement excludes goods created in Israeli settlements in the OPTs.
Lord Garel-Jones (Con)
My Lords, given the poor state of relations between the independent Palestinian territories and the State of Israel, what, if anything, are Her Majesty’s Government doing to help promote better relations between those two parties and thus advance the prospect of a two-state solution?
Baroness Goldie
The United Kingdom endeavours to support the Middle East peace plan and we do that with funding through the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund. For 2019-20, that programme will be worth £10 million. We also offer help through DfID to the Occupied Palestinian Territories under three main headings: supporting Palestinian refugees across the Middle East; supporting the Palestinian Authority to deliver basic services, build stability and promote reform; and giving help to the Palestinian market development programme to strengthen the private sector in the OPTs.
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Garel-Jones
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Baroness for her question and pay tribute to her particularly detailed knowledge of both Iran and the circumstances of this issue. As she is probably aware, the technical difficulty is that Iranians do not recognise the UK as having any right of access, on the basis that they do not consider dual nationality detainees to be British nationals. Anyone holding Iranian citizenship is considered to be only Iranian, and under international law Iran is not obliged to grant consular access for dual nationals. We are pursuing every avenue that we can in relation to all the dual nationality detainees, including Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe, and are doing so in the best way possible. We raise all our cases at every level and every opportunity. The Prime Minister raised all our consular cases in a telephone call with President Rouhani on 13 May. Most recently, on 6 July, the Minister for the Middle East raised our cases in a meeting with the Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister, Mr Araghchi. This is a very difficult situation for all our dual nationality detainees. We do the best we can to seek information and ensure that they have access to members of their family—in the case of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe, her parents in Iran—and that their welfare is addressed. I am sure that the noble Baroness’s plea will not be lost.
Lord Garel-Jones (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister tell the House whether there is a balance to be struck between doing everything possible behind the scenes to assist Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe and her family, as the Government are indeed doing, and refraining from any public comment that may inadvertently be counterproductive?
Baroness Goldie
I thank my noble friend for his particularly shrewd and perceptive observation. These are very difficult cases. For example, we know of other families of dual nationality detainees who have explicitly requested the UK Government not to engage publicly in representations and not to discuss their case at the public level. That is why the United Kingdom Government make a judgment on how best to try to continue communication with Iran and with the Iranian Government. I am pleased to say that in this case, for example, our ambassador in Tehran was able to speak with Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe by telephone on both 20 May and 15 July this year. That is unusual but it was a very welcome development.
Update on EU Exit Negotiations
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Garel-Jones
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, for his question. In relation to the implementation period—it is important that we make clear what we are talking about—I understand that it may mean that we start off with the ECJ still governing the rules that we are part of for that period. The Government are also clear, however, that if we can bring forward a new dispute mechanism at an earlier stage, that is what we will do.
Lord Garel-Jones (Con)
My Lords, is it not a statement of the obvious that, given the results of the referendum, the Government must do what they are doing: have talks with our partners in the European Union to achieve the best possible outcome for this country? That said, while it is much too early to speculate about what that outcome will be, is it not also true, as the Supreme Court has made clear, that the Government have a duty to bring the results of those discussions to Parliament? Picking up the point made by my noble friend Lord Higgins, this is a parliamentary democracy. Parliament authorised the referendum. It has not authorised any outcome or no outcome: that must come to Parliament.
Baroness Goldie
I thank my noble friend for his question. I can only repeat what I have already said: Parliament will be fully engaged and it will get a vote on the final deal.