BBC: Funding

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 17th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords—

[Baroness Goldie]

My Lords—

AUKUS Defence Partnership

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

On cost, the noble Lord will not be surprised that I am unable to give specific figures, for what I think are widely understood reasons. I imagine that differing levels of cost will apply because, for example, the role of the United States is based on it having an established Virginia class of submarine being built; as the noble Lord will be aware, part of the agreement is Australia seeking to buy three of those. There are now huge issues for Australia in creating the infrastructure that it will need to build the submarines, so, again, it is anticipated that its costs will be different from those of either the US or the UK.

For our own part, as is indicated, we in the UK have been investing in our submarine-building infrastructure. Some £2 billion was announced last year to support the Dreadnought class of submarines. The recent integrated review refresh announcement of £5 billion—obviously, I am rounding the figure up for ease of use—will be split into three, spread over two years, to sustain the nuclear enterprise. My understanding is that the additional £6 billion, which will be spread over three years—£2 billion per year—is also allocated to the nuclear enterprise, excluding the Dreadnought enterprise. That is money that we know is going to be there, and we are therefore able to budget appropriately.

It is important to go back to what the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have clearly indicated: that, having regard to the turbulent world in which we live, they see defence as a national primary responsibility and priority. They are prepared to work, even in difficult economic circumstances, to ensure that we do as much as we can to sustain a powerful and effective defence capability.

I turn to the last part of the noble Lord’s question, which was about this perhaps being a unique solution for Australia. Australia must make its own strategic decision about what it seeks and what it wants. Eighteen months ago, it identified that it had a need and that the best way to respond to that need was to seek a nuclear-propelled submarine. It is positive and gratifying that it then looked to the United Kingdom and the United States. As the noble Lord will be aware, we have a long-standing and close relationship on the construction of submarines. Australia has made a perfectly balanced decision that this type of submarine, propelled as it is by nuclear propulsion, offers huge advantages: it is far more effective in itself; it can circumnavigate the globe without coming up; it is difficult to detect; and it is much more efficient to run. For those who, naturally, care about the environment, it produces a cleaner form of emissions than, for example, a diesel-powered submarine.

Australia has looked at this closely and come to its own strategic, sovereign decision about what it wants. We should all feel very proud that it wants the UK to be part of this vital partnership in delivering what it seeks.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not derive some comfort from the fact that the crucial meetings in the United States took place immediately after a very amicable meeting between the Prime Minister and President Macron? Is it not absolutely crucial that while we pursue AUKUS vigorously we do not neglect the fact that our European allies are extremely important, particularly bearing in mind what is going on at the moment?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I cannot disagree with one word of what my noble friend says. As I said earlier, the IRR indicated that the primary threat at the moment is Euro-Atlantic security because of Russia illegally invading Ukraine; that is our immediate defence priority in the short to medium term. However, that is without prejudice to our sustainment of the Indo-Pacific tilt.

My noble friend is quite right: our relationship with France on a bilateral basis is strong and good. Although I am not privy to the detail of what the Prime Minister spoke to President Macron about, I am sure that they discussed a huge range of issues, including how we can promote a free and open Indo-Pacific, in which France has a very important role to play.

Ukraine: Challenger 2 Tanks

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

We constantly review the assessed need through a combination of the Ukrainian armed forces telling us what they think they need and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Stuart, indicated, consultation among different countries. Part of this is, in a sense, about what we can achieve in aggregate through individual contributions. As the noble Viscount will be aware, other countries are donating tanks but the noble Baroness made the important point that the addition of Leopard tanks would be a significant step forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, do not the questions asked this afternoon, particularly those from the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton, underline the need for a proper debate in your Lordships’ House on Ukraine? In a few weeks, we will mark the first anniversary of the opening of the invasion. We have a great deal of expertise in your Lordships’ House—far more than in the other place—so will my noble friend please talk to my noble friend the Chief Whip and make sure that, rather than considering some of the very unnecessary legislation being brought to this House, we have a full-scale debate on the most important international crisis since the Second World War?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Trying to answer questions on defence issues at the Dispatch Box is quite onerous enough for me to undertake without understanding the labyrinthine workings of the usual channels, but I am sure that my noble friend’s plea is heard by my very good friend the Chief Whip and that the usual channels will be interested in his observations.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

That is an important question about an issue which I know occupies the thoughts of many. I reassure the House that the Ministry of Defence continually manages and analyses our stock of weapons and munitions against commitments and threats, while reviewing industrial capacity and supply chains both domestically and internationally. These considerations have informed both the numbers of munitions granted in kind to the armed forces of Ukraine and their avenues of supply. We remain fully engaged with industry allies and partners, and, as I said earlier, the MoD is utterly resolved to continue with this important support in kind.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, very sadly, it is highly likely that the barbaric—as my noble friend rightly said—treatment that has been meted out in Ukraine this week could lead to more refugees and more refuges for refugees. I am told—I hope this is wrong—that there is currently no Minister specifically answerable for refugee issues in either House, following the sad departure of my noble friend Lord Harrington. Can my noble friend clarify this?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

It is certainly somewhat outwith my ministerial responsibility. I understand that there is an overall responsibility falling on the Home Office, and I am sure that the Government will clarify specifically how they wish to address these issues. I am aware that very positive work has been going on already in relation to the Homes for Ukraine initiative in this country, which has been very successful, and we are very conscious of continuing to support it beyond the six-month period.

Afghanistan: British Special Forces

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 14th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not share my deep sense of unease that the BBC should choose to broadcast this programme before laying the evidence that it had before the appropriate authorities?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I think we all understand that journalism has a role in a democratic society, and journalists have a job to do and documentary producers seek to discharge that role. What I think is reprehensible is—in discharging that role without producing substantive evidence or explaining why that evidence has never been investigated before—to proceed to traduce reputations and, as I say, tarnish an honourable military force of which we are extremely proud, the British Army, in which the overwhelming majority of soldiers are upstanding, competent and professional individuals who abide by the law.

Ukraine: Lethal Weapons

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 5th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

In so far as that impacts on our industry partners in the UK, yes, as I said earlier to the noble and gallant Lord sitting behind, we do make assessments and consult constantly with our industry partners. We are satisfied that we are balancing the need to support a friend in need with maintaining the necessary supplies for our own indigenous and domestic security.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not important that we do not lose sight of the fact, notwithstanding what the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, said, that Putin’s original aim six weeks ago was to accomplish annihilation? It is vital that the wonderful resilience that the Ukrainians have shown is supported in every possible way, because, if this were ultimately to end in the subjugation of Ukraine—which is possible—that would be a defeat for all freedom-lovers around the world.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend articulates a powerful sentiment; that is why there is such resolve on the part of the United Kingdom as a bilateral friend of Ukraine and in the global response—whether that is the response to calls for specific equipment and kit or the application of sanctions and financial restrictions. It indicates just how isolated Putin has become and how serious the consequences are for this ill-judged and disastrous expedition.

Ukraine Update

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I can confirm the first part of the noble Lord’s question: yes, there will be a degree of training required. He will understand that, for reasons of operational discretion, I am not going to be more explicit about that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure my noble friend will agree that that symbolic afternoon on Tuesday was one of the most remarkable in the history of Parliament. Symbolism does have its places. Could I suggest that Parliament—both Houses—should nominate President Zelensky for the Nobel Peace Prize? Could I also suggest that it would be another symbolic gesture to underline our unity if the leader of the Opposition were invited to Cabinet meetings when Ukraine is on the agenda?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend makes a number of interesting observations. I am sure that we are all conscious of the extraordinary attributes of President Zelensky, and everyone will be reflecting on how we best acknowledge that. As to matters of Cabinet protocol, my understanding is that the leader of the Opposition is, in fact, briefed on Privy Council terms. I think my noble friend Lord Coaker would confirm that the Government have been as explicit as they can with intelligence and information, and I am not aware of any dissatisfaction with that.

AUKUS

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Lord poses a pertinent question. I think I addressed his concerns partially in my response to the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith of Basildon and Lady Smith of Newnham.

Our relationship with France on defence is not some sort of sterile picking up of the phone now and again. We are committed to building on the achievements of the first 10 years of the Lancaster House accords in the decade to come. We will continue to consult each other daily and at all levels on key international defence and security matters. It is important to observe that, although we may no longer be in the EU, we cannot fractionalise security depending on where physical boundaries fall. The strength of security in the EU, and the strength of France’s ability to contribute to that security, matters to us in the UK, and vice versa. That is mutually understood and respected, so I assure the noble Lord that, yes, we anticipate continuing a very constructive relationship with France on defence matters.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I would like to say from these sparsely populated Benches how delighted I am with this Statement. However, I want to press my noble friend on one or two matters.

First, on the points made about France by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, and the noble Lord who just spoke, is it inconceivable that, if there were a mutual desire, France could join this alliance? That would seem to make a good deal of logistic sense. Secondly, when will this alliance be operational? How long will it take for the nuclear submarines to be built? What plans are there for command? Will it rotate between the three countries? Will the United States always be in command? I hope not. If my noble friend could throw a little light on these points, I would be extremely grateful.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I say to my noble friend that we see this as a partnership among three important global players. It is a partnership with important and broad security objectives but its immediate raison d’être, as driven by Australia, is to seek help in being supplied with nuclear-powered submarines. That is the first focus of the partnership; it is therefore not something that it would be appropriate for France to be involved in.

On our broader relationship with France, I hope that my noble friend was assured by what I said in my earlier remarks. France is related to us and our defence relationships in a number of ways, not least on our bilateral front but also through NATO. There is a strong relationship there that we want to nurture and sustain.

My noble friend asked when the partnership will be operational. This is a technically challenging proposition. The first phrase will happen over the next 18 months and will involve a tripartite, or trilateral, discussion among the three parties to the agreement as they work out what is possible and how matters might be taken forward.

My noble friend also asked about command. This is not a military operation; it is an alliance, first of all, to help with the specific project of building and delivering nuclear-powered submarines. The submarines will be under the command of Australia, and it will have autonomy of operation over them.

Afghanistan: British Equipment and Training

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am sure my noble friend sitting beside me has as acute hearing as I have, has listened carefully to the noble Lord and will find his own way of responding appropriately to the noble Lord’s concerns.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, why has there been no attempt at the United Nations to move a resolution to try and get a peacekeeping force so that embassies could remain open and the use of weapons, to some degree, could be policed?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Obviously, the situation is constantly under review by us and our international partners and friends, not least within the United Nations. But this is a very difficult situation on the ground and that is a reality we are having to deal with.

Hong Kong Extradition Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 11th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Lord is absolutely correct. The United Kingdom takes that agreement very seriously and is committed to monitoring it and observing our obligations under that declaration. We do that, and have been doing that, in the most forceful way that we can. An important point has been raised about Hong Kong, and I suggest that we should draw comfort from two things. It is without question that the rule of law in Hong Kong remains robust. That is, of course, thanks largely to its world-class independent judiciary, which is a very important component of the Hong Kong justice system. Yes, there are concerns; yes, we are representing these concerns; and yes, we share the apprehension voiced by others, particularly within Hong Kong. We are doing everything we can to urge the Hong Kong Government to look at this more closely and ensure proper scrutiny of this legislation before it is enacted.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, has the Foreign Secretary pointed out clearly to the Chinese ambassador, “one country, two systems” was a remarkable achievement? As one who led the last British parliamentary delegation to Hong Kong before this came about, I know that we were apprehensive, but it came about and it has been a remarkable success. But “one country, one system” would destroy it, and the whole businesses is in jeopardy now. Can that be gently but firmly pointed out to the Chinese ambassador at the Court of St James?

Saudi Arabia

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 24th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

It is the case that the United Nations is an important forum. There is no doubt about that at all. The UK is a strong supporter of the UN General Assembly’s resolution for the moratorium on the use of the death penalty. We use our position bilaterally to lobby Governments to establish moratoriums to abolish the death penalty. We raise individual cases of British nationals and partner with world-leading NGOs to reduce use of the death penalty. It is important that there is a forum where dialogue can continue, rather than running the risk of just bringing down shutters, closing doors and cutting off any possibility of any exchange of views.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the Saudi Arabian ambassador in London has been summoned to see the Foreign Secretary?

[Baroness Goldie]

I have no specific information on that point, but I shall investigate and report back to my noble friend.

Brexit: No-deal Preparations

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, I am sorry. The noble Lord was not in for the repeat of the Statement.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I stress that I very much hope the deal will be accepted in the other place. If it is not, given the overwhelming view in both Houses that we should not leave without a deal, would it not then be sensible to use the delay requested by the Prime Minister to have some indicative votes in the other place and come together on a deal that can command parliamentary support? I hope that is not necessary—I support the Prime Minister—but if the Commons rejects it again, that would surely be the prudent way forward.

Brexit: Negotiations after 29 March 2019

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Baroness is right: a lot has happened since the referendum in 2016. Nobody is more conscious of that than the public of this country. I do not know what the noble Baroness picks up, but I know what I pick up outside the Westminster environment. It is a marked degree of frustration and anger at the inability of politicians to deliver what has now been clearly expressed in two votes: the referendum and the general election, in which both major parties pledged to deliver the referendum result. It is a matter of great regret that Her Majesty’s Opposition have not been more constructive in securing delivery of that objective. The position is very clear: if the extension is granted—and the Prime Minister has made crystal clear why she seeks it—she will then want to hold the meaningful vote as soon as possible in the hope that the withdrawal agreement can be agreed. I think there is a yearning desire throughout the country to get this long, protracted and challenging matter brought to the phase where the next part of the proceedings can commence.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I wish the Prime Minister well, does my noble friend agree that, had the other place listened a little more carefully to the withdrawal Bill as it reached them from this House, we would not be in the position we are in today?

[Baroness Goldie]

Wisdom is a great virtue, particularly with hindsight, but the challenges confronting the other place and the country at present were predictable from the time we commenced the process. Both Houses commenced that process, both Houses passed an Act of Parliament to trigger Article 50 and both Houses passed the European Union (Withdrawal) Act. The consequences of that were always clear and there is now a huge responsibility on politicians to resolve these issues and to endeavour to restore the public’s faith.

Matthew Hedges

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I repeat what I said earlier: we keep all our travel advice, including for the UAE, under constant review to ensure that it reflects our assessment of the risk to British nationals. We do not normally update our travel advice in relation to the specific circumstances of every consular assistance case we are involved in, but we will do so if we assess that British nationals travelling or living in the area might be affected. Our advice to anyone proposing to travel to any country where there might be issues is to seek advice from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and to follow it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as the Foreign Secretary seeks to stiffen his sinews, can he reflect on the career of Palmerston and the Don Pacifico incident in particular, and do everything he possibly can to make the country responsible for the unjust imprisonment of this British subject realise that what it is doing will destroy the strength of the relations that we currently enjoy?

[Baroness Goldie]

As I indicated earlier, the Foreign Secretary certainly takes the view that this inevitably has an effect on the relationship between our two countries. That is a matter of great regret but it is also a matter of fact. That relationship has to be built on trust, and I have no doubt that my noble friend’s remarks will be heard.

Yemen: UN Security Council Resolution

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 21st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Part of my answer echoes what I already said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in that I would dispute her assessment of feet dragging. Britain has been at the forefront in trying to engage with partners at the United Nations and, as my right honourable friend said, to broker a solution. What has been done skilfully is to try to find a form of language which, instead of deterring and deflecting people who genuinely want to do something to help, brings them into the tent and invites them to be participants on that ultimate road to finding help.

On the question of arms sales, many people have strongly held views about this but, as she will be aware, this country operates a very strict check on our arms exports to any country, whether to Saudi Arabia or anywhere else. It is very clear—I believe the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised the specific point in the debate last week—that the continued test is this: is there a clear risk that those items subject to licence might be used to commit a serious international humanitarian law violation? If that were the case, we would not agree to the exports being made. We constantly monitor the situation. The assessment process is very robust. It is a combination of DIT, FCO and MoD, and we certainly try to ensure that any exports could not possibly be used for malign purposes.

As to the progress of the draft resolution at the United Nations, the noble Baroness will be aware—and we should pay tribute to Karen Pierce—that there has been a very energetic diplomatic endeavour for the UK. That should be recognised and praised. There is diplomatic activity going on to try to engage people with the draft resolution, attract support for it and try to ensure that the Swedish meeting can take place. People are hopeful that that might provide an opportunity, away from the area of conflict, for people to begin to talk constructively about the way forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure we would all want to endorse what my noble friend has just said about the efforts that are being made, but does not this ghastly human tragedy bring sharply into focus the need for more adequate peacekeeping from the United Nations? Could we not, as a nation and a permanent member of the Security Council, try to initiate some form of in-depth discussion on how much better the United Nations could become at peacekeeping? There was a concept some years ago called “Shield”, which called for a rather more international army than exists at the moment. Millions of people have suffered in recent years, especially in the Middle East. If there were more-adequate peacekeeping from the UN, that might not have happened.

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend; he makes an interesting point which I am sure will be noted and reflected upon. My observation in relation to Yemen is that the ability of any group to achieve peacekeeping is only as good as security on the ground. Unfortunately, we have seen in Yemen a turbulent, unpredictable environment—a fractured country with huge security risks. That is why the priority at the moment has to be finding a ceasefire and a political settlement.

Brexit: Government Position

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Monday 12th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

It is Lord Dykes. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, for his question. He might have a crystal ball, which I do not possess. All I can do is reaffirm that the negotiations are live and energetic. People will be aware of how extensive they were yesterday, reaching into the small hours of this morning. These negotiations are happening and we remain very hopeful that there will be a good outcome for the UK.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, at these difficult and delicate moments do we not all, whether we are leavers or remainers—the House knows that I was very sad when the referendum went the way that it did—have an obligation to follow the advice of my noble friend Lord Tugendhat, and should not his strictures apply particularly to members of the Cabinet? They should exercise Cabinet responsibility until a result has been determined and then we can all make up our minds on it.

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend speaks with wisdom, for a great many people. This is a time for hard-headed focus, holding firm, holding our nerve and keeping calm. It also a time for respecting, implementing and demonstrating collective responsibility.

Khan al Ahmar

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

As I made clear, the history of demolitions is profoundly regrettable. According to the information I have, which is provided by the United Nations, from January to May 2018 Israel has demolished 175 structures, displacing 161 people; and during 2017 Israel demolished 423 structures on the West Bank, displacing 664 people. Although we have considered at an earlier stage what this means for the peace process and the possibility of agreement ever being reached between the two entities, we must never forget that these figures depict families in distress, communities being torn apart and the complete disruption of a peaceful section of society. That is, in human terms, greatly to be regretted.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it will be some little time before the Prime Minister meets President Trump, but could she be persuaded to speak today to Mr Netanyahu and tell him what enormous concern there is in this country among those who count themselves friends of Israel—as I do—at the actions of the Israeli Government?

[Baroness Goldie]

I am sure that my noble friend’s comments will have been noted. As I have already indicated, this situation is being monitored and there is already extensive diplomatic exchange—but I have no doubt that my noble friend’s request will have been noted.

Mediterranean Sea: Rescue Operations

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 14th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

As I said earlier, the United Kingdom is in close communication with Libya and has actively supported measures there to address some of the principal issues confronting migrants. The United Kingdom will continue to review and assess that position. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, made a number of interesting suggestions; I will certainly have a further look at them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, further to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, when did a member of Her Majesty’s Government last go to Libya to discuss these issues on the ground?

[Baroness Goldie]

I can say to my noble friend that close diplomatic contact with Libya takes place on a regular basis. I do not have precise dates to hand but, as my noble friend will be aware, the United Kingdom Government have worked closely with Libya on a number of issues, not least the Libyan naval coastguard. Indeed, they have not been shy about raising with the senior leadership of the Libyan naval coastguard allegations of mistreatment of migrants, which have caused some concern. We are very persistent in raising such issues if they are brought to our attention.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Report: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard]

I agree with the reading by the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, of whether one has continuing membership of the EEA after one has left the EU: one does not. However, I am struck by what the Minister has just said about the moment when one leaves. I am not sure that it is at the end of the transition period. I think it may be at the moment when we leave the EU—in other words, in March next year, not 21 months later. I am not quite sure why the lawyers in the EEA, EFTA and the EU should accept that once we have left the EU we still remain in the EEA.

[Lord Cormack]

Write a letter.

[Baroness Goldie]

Or offer up a prayer, one or the other. My noble friend Lord Callanan says we are seeking to continue these international agreements, and I presume that is forming part of the negotiations.

I turn to Amendment 47 specifically because my noble friend Lady McIntosh deserves a response. Initially it was in a group of its own and my noble friend Lord Callanan was going to respond in detail, but I shall try to deal with the substance of the amendment. I must begin by repeating that the Government’s intention is to end our membership of the single market because remaining in it would fail the first test for the future economic partnership that the Prime Minister set out at Mansion House: it would fail in delivering control of our borders, law and money and would mean the UK accepting the four freedoms, including freedom of movement. That simply would not deliver the result of the referendum. As the Prime Minister set out in her Mansion House speech, the Government are instead seeking the broadest and deepest possible partnership, covering more sectors and co-operating more fully than any free trade agreement anywhere in the world today. Given those objectives, I cannot support the amendments that seek to keep the UK in the single market.

My noble friend seeks in particular to include any obligations or legal requirements arising from continued membership of the EEA or of EFTA, should agreement be reached on remaining part of the EEA or rejoining EFTA, in a definition of “international obligations” for the purposes of Clause 8. As I have said, the Government have tabled an amendment to remove Clause 8 from the Bill and, as has been made clear, we are not seeking to remain in the single market through the EEA agreement.

For clarification, the Government have no plans to rejoin EFTA because leaving the EU offers us an opportunity to forge a new role for ourselves in the world, to negotiate our own trade agreements and to be a positive and powerful force for free trade. It is also worth mentioning that membership of EFTA would not necessarily be a quick and easy solution, as some have argued; all the EFTA states would have to agree to us rejoining and, even if they welcomed us back, we would not have immediate or automatic access to their free trade agreements. Our entry into each one would need to be negotiated individually with the third countries involved. Similarly, if we were to seek longer-term participation in the EEA agreement, we would have to first join EFTA.

It is not proper for Governments to legislate contrary to their policy intention. We cannot bind future Parliaments and therefore do not need to purport to legislate to leave the door open. Future Governments can of course bring forward whatever legislation they choose to. In any event, joining the EEA or EFTA would give rise to new obligations and the implementation of such new requirements would not be possible under the Clause 8 power, which covers only existing obligations. I hope I have satisfied my noble friend as to why the Government cannot accept her amendment, and in the circumstances I ask her to withdraw it.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Committee: 11th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 28th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

The noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, has been helpful to an extent by saying that the Queen’s printer is the Keeper of the National Archives. However, that raises the question: who is the Keeper of the National Archives?

[Lord Cormack]

His name is Mr Jeff James.

[Baroness Goldie]

Then I offer a heartfelt tribute to Mr Jeff James.

Korean Peninsula

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I disagree that sanctions have failed. It is always difficult to try to prove a negative and prove that something has not failed, but the reaction of North Korea to the sanctions regime has certainly not been positive. North Korea seems to be feeling the effect of the sanctions. That suggests to me that they are having an impact on the economy of North Korea.

The noble Lord talked about a military solution. I respect his view but I am not sure that I entirely agree with it. He takes the view that, unless a military solution is on the table, nothing else will work because the discussions do not have any clout. But we must acknowledge that a military solution would create a very grave situation. It would obviously present a big risk to the people of South Korea. It is difficult to see how that risk could be eliminated. The United Kingdom Government are of the view that we need to pursue a diplomatic, if possible, economic solution to try to change the mindset of Kim Jong-un. Given the extreme risk presented by North Korea, we are not taking any option off the table, but the United Kingdom Government have made it clear—and the noble Lord would accept this—that our focus at the moment is to try to find a diplomatic solution supported by economic measures that have an effect on the North Korean economy.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is crucial that the United States and the United Kingdom work hand in glove in this desperate crisis. Will my noble friend assure me that the Prime Minister is in regular and personal contact with a President who has shown that he is predisposed to be a little trigger-happy? It is crucial that we avoid a military solution, even though the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, is right to say that it should be on the table. Can my noble friend tell me that there is regular contact between the Prime Minister and the White House following that interesting visit at the beginning of the year?

Saudi Arabia: Executions

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 18th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, will be aware, the United Kingdom Government utterly condemn torture. Again, we have been clear and articulate in saying that. The Prime Minister discussed human rights during her visit to Saudi Arabia in April this year. As I indicated in my response to the initial Question, the right honourable Alistair Burt, the Minister in this area, has made clear directly to the Saudi Arabian ambassador our profound concerns about these recent reports and has represented our profound anxiety about the possibility of the use of the death penalty. We continue to make these representations in the most robust and clamant way that we can.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in supporting the very balanced and judicious answers that my noble friend has given, should we not have a thought to what the implosion of Saudi Arabia would mean for world peace and stability? We have only to take the example of Syria and Iraq to be conscious of that.

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for a very helpful observation. Saudi Arabia is indeed in a position to influence, to assist with stability in the Gulf area and to help in the fight against Daesh. Saudi Arabia itself has been the victim of attacks by Daesh. As Saudi Arabia is an important ally of the United Kingdom, it is right that we do not hesitate to condemn when we feel that wrong things are happening. The use of the death penalty is wrong; we make that clear. Abuse of human rights is wrong; we make that clear. Equally, as my noble friend has indicated, it is very important that we maintain these communication channels.

Brexit: European Parliament Resolution

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

If I can recover from the stereophonic effect of the contributions from the Labour Benches, I thank the noble Lord for raising that issue. It is specific to the negotiations. I am certain that it will be discussed within the negotiations. It would be quite wrong for me to pre-empt an answer to that, and I am not going to do so.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in order to calm the rhetoric in the European Parliament, will my noble friend think of sending a certain United Kingdom Member of that Parliament a definition of the word “mafia” and a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People?

[Baroness Goldie]

As ever, my noble friend seeks to pour oil on troubled waters. I am sure his comments will be noted.

Brexit: Declaration of Friendship

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, before invoking Article 50, they will lay before each House of Parliament a declaration of friendship and intent which they will then circulate to the Parliaments of the other European Union member states.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s Lancaster House speech made clear that, while we are leaving the European Union, we are not leaving Europe. Europe matters, and the UK will continue to be a reliable partner, willing ally and close friend to all the EU member states. Friendship is implicit in our relationship with Europe and there is therefore no need to lay a declaration of friendship and intent before this House and the other place ahead of triggering Article 50.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, although I am sorry that it was not shorter and more in the affirmative. I am sure that she will acknowledge that it is vitally important that the friendship to which she referred, and to which the Question refers, is emphasised at every conceivable opportunity. We are sitting down with friends, neighbours and allies and not seeking to negotiate a peace treaty with enemies. It is clearly important that advancing our friendship is crucial to the success of the talks.

[Baroness Goldie]

My Lords, let me try to reassure my noble friend. I am absolutely certain that our negotiators, in conducting these vital and extremely important negotiations, will do so in the best traditions of relations amical, amistad und Freundschaft.

Brexit: Higher Education

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Thursday 15th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, we have made it very clear that we value highly the contribution of EU and international researchers and academic staff, and we will always welcome those with the skills, drive and expertise to make our nation better still. We have been clear that as a result of the referendum there has been no change in the rights and status of EU nationals who are already in the UK. I reassure the noble Baroness that this matter will of course be at the forefront of our negotiations, but I cannot pre-empt those negotiations. She will understand that we wish to do everything we can to protect the position of those EU nationals. Equally, in the negotiations we would wish to have recognised the position of our UK nationals, of whom there are 1 million elsewhere in the EU.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, once again I make the point that it would generate enormous good will if we could just tell those who are here that their position is not at risk. This would be a good prelude to negotiations and, by leading by example, I believe that we would achieve a very great deal.

[Baroness Goldie]

My noble friend makes a point that he has made before. I can simply respond by saying, as my colleagues have done on previous occasions, that these are important issues. I cannot pre-empt the negotiation detail but that will be at the forefront of our discussions.

Aleppo

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Monday 28th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, for raising two important points. The first is of course that a solution to this problem has to be found within Syria. The United Kingdom Government, in conjunction with the partners to whom I referred, are using every means availableto them to urge both the regime and those who have influence over it, not least Russia, to acknowledge that. The noble Lord will be aware that the High Negotiations Committee has proposed a vision for Syria which the United Kingdom supports, and we very much urge everyone who cares about the country and who wants a future for it to have serious regard to what that committee has outlined.

I remind the noble Lord that the key partners with whom the United Kingdom operates are the United States, France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, and that is separate from the global coalition against Daesh, which is another alliance. So a cohort of concerned and influential partners is doing everything it can to try to improve the situation in Syria. However, at the end of the day the solution will have to be found within the country itself.

The noble Lord raises the important issue of the status and situation of refugees—those who have been forced to flee. Of course one can look at the neighbouring countries, not least Jordan, which has been one of the major recipients of refugees and has been providing help on the border. He will also be aware that the United Kingdom is the second biggest bilateral donor of humanitarian aid, and we are desperately trying to do our bit to support these people. However, the future beyond the immediate situation largely depends on finding a solution to Syria.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I urge my noble friend to seek an early meeting with the patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church, whom a number of us had the pleasure of meeting this afternoon. He would paint a rather different picture. There is a blot on our foreign policy here, and I urge my noble friend to seek that meeting and to listen very carefully.

[Baroness Goldie]

I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord Cormack for his contribution. Unfortunately, I was unable to attend that meeting. I am sure that such a meeting would be of interest, and I would very much hope that the Church would feel able to share with the Government any thoughts that it has. We will all be aware that we are doing what we can to try to assist but, as I said earlier to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, short of intervening, there is a limit to what we can do in supporting, advising and trying to influence. We are working as part of a partnership.

India: UK Ex-Servicemen

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

The Commonwealth may have a locus in this. The United Kingdom Government have been more concerned with being directly focused on the specific situation of the six British nationals. As I said earlier, to that extent, the United Kingdom Government, through the Diplomatic Service, have been responsible for greatly assisting the men with matters such as visitation and support within the prison, and ensuring that charitable agencies can also lend support. The United Kingdom, through the Diplomatic Service, has been the facilitator for these improvements.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Following those last points, is my noble friend reasonably satisfied with the conditions in which these men are being held? Can she say something about that?

[Baroness Goldie]

I understand that the conditions are acceptable—indeed, better than those available to many Indian nationals. I understand that they do not share cells and there is a right to exercise and to have visits. Indeed, when families or friends have visited from abroad, these visits have been extensive, affording quality time with the prisoners. As I said to the noble Baroness on the Liberal Democrat Benches, the Diplomatic Service has also ensured that charitable agencies have been involved so that there is other support such as food supplies and access to medical advice.