Western Balkans Summit
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon
Baroness Goldie
My Lords, far be it from me to comment on the idiosyncrasies and foibles of noble Members opposite: no doubt they can give an account of themselves to my noble friend if they so desire. What I want to make crystal clear is the UK’s demonstrable commitment to the western Balkans. That can be manifested in numerous ways, whether it is by programme aid or by diplomatic engagement, which has been at a high level and consistent. That commitment will not cease. We believe in the importance of that area and want to continue to help these countries.
Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)
My Lords, will the Minister give me an assurance that the summit will discuss the Brussels policy which, whether through inadvertence or ignorance, is now in danger of delivering on the dreams of Milošević, Tudjman and Karadžić? Let me explain. Now that Croatia is a member of the European Union, every Bosnian Croat in the south of Bosnia has a European passport and will therefore be a European citizen. When Serbia joins, every Bosnian Serb in the north of the country will have access to the European Union. The Muslims in the middle of Bosnia will be left isolated in a dysfunctional state, surrounded by their enemy. Does the Minister realise just how fatal that will be to the peace of Bosnia in the future and to our battle against Islamic terrorism?
Baroness Goldie
I was trying to extract the question from the noble Lord’s contribution. It is important to identify what the different countries themselves feel. I was very interested to learn—the noble Lord may be aware of it—of the recent European leaders network meeting, in which the Foreign Office was able to participate. The countries themselves seemed to share a common view that they would succeed or fail together and that the region belongs to the Euro-Atlantic community. That is a very positive message, indicating that the countries themselves have a vision that is positive and, we hope, peaceful. The United Kingdom and our EU partners will do all we can to facilitate that progress.
Korean Peninsula
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon
Baroness Goldie
Forgive me: I misunderstood. I cannot give a specific answer to that point, but I undertake to make inquiries and write to the noble Lord.
The noble Lord made the important point that the people of North Korea should not be confused with the ideology of North Korea. That is a vital point worth repeating. The people of North Korea are a very oppressed people. They seem to live in a very difficult environment. We suspect that they are denied many of the everyday benefits of life that we take for granted. They are a proud and historic people. That is why the international community is anxious to try to find a way to improve the lot of North Korea. I said in my earlier remarks that part of this is addressing a threat to security and part is addressing a destabilising influence. Part of it also has to be about trying to chart a way forward that gives a more optimistic future for the people of North Korea. I think that was an echo of the noble Lord’s final contribution—can we afford ourselves some hope? We can and I hope that we shall, because if we do not the prospect is very bleak. There are examples where, against the odds, change has occurred. If that can be the case in one country, why not in another?
Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister is right in saying that unity is crucial in this, so I am bound to say that it is a matter of some sadness if not regret that we have now pushed the policy of sanctions so far that we have now lost China to the international consensus. That is a loss that will be measured in terms of loss of influence on North Korea. It is important at this stage that we face reality. The Minister said that the policy of sanctions has succeeded. Can she name a single shred of evidence measured in terms of the reduction in North Korean armament processing that would support that conclusion? This policy followed for the last 10 years has not succeeded: it has failed. There is an old saying: “If you go on doing what you’re doing, you will get what you’ve got”. What we have now is a fully nuclear-armed North Korea and a world standing on the very brink of nuclear conflagration.
I am not in favour of removing the military option from the table. Our policy so far, however, has been, “Respond to our threats and then we will talk”. Why do we not talk while keeping the threats on the table? Diplomacy works best if it is backed by a military option. There is no reason why we should not now keep that threat on the table and commence some kind of dialogue. That is what China wants and what the others want too. The options are very grave. I concede that if we follow that policy we would have to admit that the policy we have been following for the past 10 years has failed. But surely it is better for us to admit that a policy has failed when it is manifestly evident that it has than to allow the world to come to the brink of this kind of crisis, which could lead to incalculable destruction.