Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie

Committee stage
Wednesday 2nd September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, this first group of amendments addresses the scope of the Armed Forces covenant. I will speak to Amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 in my name, and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, for her support. They all relate to page 2 of the Bill and all, after the word “forces” on lines 13, 16, 19 and 21, seek to insert the words “and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary”. The modest amendments in this group correct an anomaly in the Bill as a whole and give clarity and certainty to the RFA, which is widely acknowledged by us all as a vital part of the Royal Navy and the UK’s national security and defence.

In winding up at Second Reading, the Minister addressed the position of the RFA in acknowledging that the Government have given the Armed Forces Commissioner responsibility for RFA personnel in Clause 31. Given this, it seems nonsensical that the RFA is covered in this way in one part of the Bill but not in another. Are the Government really saying that RFA personnel are recognised as part of the broader Armed Forces community when it suits, yet fall outside of the statutory legal duties applied to that community for members of the Regular and Reserve Forces? Can the Minister explain why the RFA is included in the commissioner’s powers but is excluded from the rest of the Armed Forces covenant?

The Minister is aware that I have been focused on the status of the RFA for some time. It is my belief that it is a vital, but always overlooked, part of our defence. The main issue stems from the unique position of the RFA as a civilian-manned naval auxiliary fleet owned by the Ministry of Defence. Rather than accounting for the risks and sacrifice they take as seafarers supporting military operations, the Government seem to view RFA personnel as just another type of civil servant. This is to fundamentally misunderstand their role and function.

Let us not forget that members of the RFA work to the same standards and are trained alongside other military personnel, and, if they are deployed on military operational service, they come under the same rules and regulation as the Royal Navy. At this time of constrained resources, they are frequently tasked with roles that would formerly be given to warships. They are not civil servants.

I noted that, during the Recess, Veterans Minister Calvin Bailey visited RFA “Tidespring” and “Mounts Bay”, where improving the welfare and morale of the crew, and supporting their families, was high on his agenda. The Minister was quoted as saying that the RFA had slipped from public consciousness, despite quietly underpinning operations, as he described it, like a “big … Swiss Army knife”.

Like other branches of the Armed Forces, the RFA has experienced considerable recruitment and retention challenges. Recently, in order to fulfil its remit, the RFA was having to move personnel between vessels, stretching the workforce dangerously thin and leading to questions about whether ships could be crewed effectively and safely. Commodore Sam Shattock, head of service, has sought to address this. He has had to reduce the operating fleet for now, but he has also reviewed the training and career framework to streamline progression and ensure that personnel are developed and deployed more efficiently. I am pleased to note that recruitment is increasing and that applications have reached their highest level in five years.

I am heartened also to hear that the new Armed Forces Commissioner has already met Commodore Shattock and is fully aware of the unique position of the RFA. On assuming office, she stated:

“Ultimately, my purpose as Commissioner is simple: to ensure the lived experience of those who serve is understood, valued and continuously improved”.


This Bill includes those who serve as part of the RFA in her remit, and the Minister has previously acknowledged that members of the RFA are part of the Armed Forces community, so again I ask: why are they not included in the provisions of the Armed Forces covenant in Clause 2?

My amendments would result in a very small extension of the covenant by numbers. If you take a total Armed Forces population of around 140,000, plus veterans and families, we are talking about only an additional 1,700 serving RFA members, plus veterans and families. It is an increase of less than 1.5%.

The RFA population would welcome recognition as beneficiaries under the Armed Forces covenant: a covenant founded not on status but on military service, such as that provided in areas of conflict and crisis by members of the RFA. My amendments would give these men and women the clarity and recognition they deserve.

Defence Minister Luke Pollard recently told the Portsmouth News:

“We’ve got the opportunity to reset the relationship with the seafarers within the RFA, and it means we can start the process of valuing the RFA more. I feel they have been undervalued in the past”.


The Government can start the process of valuing the RFA more right here, by accepting my amendments. If the Minister does not wish to accept them then, given our shared appreciation for the men and women of the RFA, I look forward to his response and his explanation of why not. I beg to move.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, as I set out at Second Reading, I am supportive of the Government expanding the scope of the Armed Forces covenant, building on the work the previous Government undertook in the Armed Forces Act 2021. I say to the Minister that although, as the Minister, I was somewhat diffident about this expansion, now that this Government have seen fit to provide it, I am 100% in there and want it to work as well as possible.

My amendments in this group are intended to strengthen that legal duty. As drafted, the Bill extends the covenant legal duty to four persons. New Section 343AZA(4) specifies that those persons are

“a national authority; a local authority; an education body; a health body”.

New Section 343AZB(2) sets out the definition of “national authority” as being

“a Minister of the Crown, within the meaning of the Ministers of the Crown Act 1975; the Welsh Ministers; the Scottish Ministers; the First Minister and deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland acting jointly, a Northern Ireland Minister or a Northern Ireland department”.

Armed Forces: Remuneration, Housing and Family Support

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie

Monday 18th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I would say to the noble Lord that the recent pay award has been very positively received, but that is not the sole reason why people go into the Armed Forces. I agree with him that there are recruitment challenges—I do not deny that; we are in a very competitive world—but I can say that all three single services are currently embarked on new and, I think, very vibrant recruiting exercises, which we hope will bear fruit. But the other criteria to which I referred—how we provide careers, how we provide childcare support and how we try to improve accommodation and support personnel—are all part of the overall package.

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, when we are looking at supporting the terms and conditions of our armed services, we must not forget those services that support them? I am thinking in particular of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, which provides world-class maritime support to our Royal Navy. Since 2009, its terms and conditions and settlement have been lower than those of any other member of the Armed Forces or comparable emergency service, such as the fire service, the ambulance service and the police. I do not really understand why that is the case. Will the Minister undertake to look into it?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes. I agree with my noble friend that the Royal Fleet Auxiliary is an important component of our support. I do not have any details on her specific request, but I will certainly investigate and undertake to write to her.

National Shipbuilding Strategy

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I will take the last point first. The strategy is quite clear that it excludes the Dreadnought programme, I think for very understandable reasons. That is a separate, clearly identifiable programme standing in its own right. It has been budgeted for. The noble Lord is aware of the contingency fund, and that programme is proceeding.

As for the MoD’s ability to commission and procure the ships to which the noble Lord referred, as further described in the section of the strategy document to which he referred, these are all objectives within the MoD perspective. He will be aware that we have to renew the Navy; that is the systematic programme we have in front of us. I would have thought that some Members from Opposition Benches would be positively green with envy to see what has already been achieved and what the plans are. That all points to a very healthy defence maritime capability.

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, our experience in Scotland suggests that Governments are not very good at building ships. There are currently more boats in the Caledonian MacBrayne fleet that entered service when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister than have been launched since the SNP assumed responsibility for Scotland’s ferries. Yesterday only 13 of CalMac’s 29 ferry routes were operating a normal service, and for once this was nothing to do with the weather. How will this strategy ensure that the failures we are seeing in Scotland are not compounded? How will this strategy help the island communities of Scotland?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I think she and I would certainly echo the sentiment that the island communities in Scotland are crying out for help. She refers to what has been a very unhappy chapter for the Scottish Government in building ships, running essential ferry transport links to Scottish island communities—this being the responsibility of their wholly owned subsidiary, CalMac—and being responsible for the maintenance and renewal of that fleet. This strategy can only help because it provides the components for a prosperous, sustainable UK shipbuilding industry and, engaging as it does with the devolved Administrations, I hope that will enable the Scottish Government to be alert to what is available and to seize the opportunity of taking all help and support. My noble friend is right: there is an urgent need to improve what is a very sorry ferry transport situation in Scotland.