Housing and Planning Bill

Baroness Gardner of Parkes Excerpts

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, the House is indeed fortunate to have such an expert in parliamentary procedure as the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane. I have listened to him and learned a great deal in a very short time; I am sure that other noble Lords will feel the same. It is interesting that the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, has effectively confirmed that he approves the noble Lord’s approach to dealing with these matters. Otherwise, Parliament in effect will be being asked once again to sign a blank cheque covering matters of considerable importance and complexity which will simply proceed under ministerial fiat. That cannot be healthy, given the nature and importance of the topic we are discussing.

I hope that the Minister, who has today written to some Members of the House about aspects of this matter—I am sure that the document will be in the Library as well, although somewhat belatedly—will acknowledge that the noble Lord has made a very powerful case for adopting a more conventional procedure than that of delegating determinative powers which will be exercised without any oversight at all. Nothing in what the noble Lord suggested would substantially obstruct the carrying out of the Government’s policy; they would just have to explain and seek parliamentary approval in what is, after all, a pretty normal way. I hope that the Government will react positively to the amendment. If, having regard to apparently moving circumstances as reflected in her letter, the noble Baroness is unable to accept the amendment today, if she could undertake to come back on it at Third Reading, that might suffice. Otherwise, I suspect that the noble Lord will be tempted to test the opinion of the House. In that event, the Opposition will certainly support him.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, have served on the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee for at least two sessions of three years each. What concerns me is the word “regulations”. Does it mean that this will be another regulation that will come to us in a pre-formed state and we will not have any opportunity to consider its implications? I find it very worrying that we are doing more and more by secondary legislation and less by primary legislation, and I should like the Minister to cover that point in her reply.

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My point refers more to what the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, said, although I very much sympathise with what has just been said, because I have been criticising the use of Henry VIII clauses, among other things. I am instinctively resistant to the idea of too many regulations, but there are occasions when a ministerial determination may be more protected if it has parliamentary approval—I am thinking of the risk of judicial review. I do not know enough about the field that we are dealing with to see how real the danger is, but it might be worth the Minister considering whether that element of protection would be of value. There is no doubt that, if it comes in the form of regulation, no judge will question its authority or consider whether it is proportionate or whatever else it is, whereas a determination by a Minister is open to review. It is a point that is worth considering, if the Minister is considering the issue at all, as one of the factors that it would be worth our bringing into play to decide whether it would be right to accept the amendment being proposed.