Media: News Corporation

Debate between Baroness Garden of Frognal and Lord Prescott

Friday 15th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, at this stage I would not wish to comment on the particular issues that the noble Lord has raised, but I can assure him that government Ministers have now all been asked to log their contacts with the media. That is ongoing, so for the future that should all be in place. If there is anything more to add, I shall write to noble Lords. I must apologise, as I am clutching a piece of paper to reply to this point. It would have been extremely remiss of me to sit down having left the question unanswered. Again, I apologise.

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. It has been in the best traditions of your Lordships’ House. It was considered, incisive, informed and passionate, and the contributions have added a great deal to the national debate. All sides of the House have expressed the will to work together in this instance with, as the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said, singleness of purpose. That message was echoed by her colleague, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland. All sides would wish that to be the case because we all have much to gain from the resolution of the unhappy matters that have been going on recently.

My final thanks add to those made to my noble friend Lord Fowler for bringing this debate about. We wish him every success in his continued endeavours.

[Lord Prescott]

On the inquiry that we have been talking about today, and which everyone welcomes, presumably many people will be called before it. Will they receive legal aid in such circumstances?

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I am afraid I cannot give the noble Lord a definitive answer, so I shall have to write to him.

Marine Navigation Aids Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Garden of Frognal and Lord Prescott

Friday 21st January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prescott]

My Lords, I start with an apology; I did not realise that the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, was before the House until I came in, switched on my television and heard him speaking. I declare an interest having spent 10 years as a merchant seaman and having been a Minister for merchant shipping in the previous Government.

Having heard the argument’s today, I should say that ship owners have always been concerned about cutting costs. But we are talking here about a very small part of their operating cost. Whether right or wrong, whether it should be paid by the taxpayer or the user, it has been subject to the user principle. As the Minister for shipping, I constantly had to deal with the problem that the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, raised, of how to deal with the Irish and how to get a proper agreement between us. I am pleased to hear that agreement apparently has been reached. The Bill proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is trying to bring greater efficiency and effectiveness into this operation and the payment of navigational aids. I am not too sure whether that is the right approach, but there is certainly a problem.

I want to address my remarks to whether the user cost, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, is a disincentive to British shipping. The facts are clear: more tonnage is coming into Britain by ship than ever before. We are roaring in trade. That is true not only in Britain but in most countries; it is the nature of the global economy. So I do not think that they have been put off by the cost in those circumstances. I have been concerned about the cost of the crews, however, to which the noble Lord, Lord MacKenzie, referred. Over the past few decades, the reduction of crews on ships has led to a reduction in navigational skills and the loss of ships. Crews have been reduced by more than 25 per cent. That is a real saving—there is no doubt about it. Most of our shipping was flagged out to what we call the flag-of-convenience countries, such as Liberia and Panama, which sold their flag. The ship owners, many of them British, were very happy to take advantage, because it was a reduction in costs. It was also a reduction in skills and navigational abilities. Having achieved that real advantage, they now talk about the costs of navigational aids.

I should point out to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, that what happened to containers happened years ago. A decision was made on whether Britain was going to be the area for container centralisation and distribution to Europe. We lost it. The tidal advantages to Rotterdam and other places gave them an advantage. Therefore, there was a great deal of redistribution from Rotterdam and to the British ports. Nevertheless, the container trade has been considerable; there has been massive growth, even in the UK.

I shall return to the point about user tax. Is this a disincentive to the British industry? Does it wish to reduce its costs and have an advantage? Of course it does—I understand that—but should they be paid by the taxpayer or met in user payments? When I was Minister for shipping, I was faced with a decline, as the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, must know. The British navy as registered under the Red Ensign was 30 million tonnes in 1970; when I came in in 1997, it was down to 2 million tonnes, and it had flagged out to other countries. I introduced the tonnage tax, which was a user payment and a means by which the ship owner could have greater control over his costs and profits by paying a known tonnage tax rather than a profit tax, which might be changed by various Governments. By using the tonnage tax we had a transfer back to the British fleet, and from 2 million tonnes in 1997, we now have 17 million tonnes under the Red Ensign. I am delighted about that, although I do not think enough jobs came out of it.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I remind the noble Lord that speakers in the gap should restrict their comments to four minutes and he is now in his fifth minute.

[Lord Prescott]

I bow to the noble Baroness’s knowledge, and I am sorry about that. I shall finish on this one point. User tax did not discourage the fleet—it actually encouraged it. So I am not convinced that the small amount of tax that we are talking about would be a disincentive to the British ship owner.

Sport: Rugby League World Cup 2013

Debate between Baroness Garden of Frognal and Lord Prescott

Tuesday 23rd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Lord for his expertise and his longstanding support for Rugby League, as he has already demonstrated to the House. He refers to a letter from my honourable friend Hugh Robertson. In fact, the Northwest Regional Development Agency contracted with the RFL to provide £1 million to support staging the event in exchange for a specified number of games taking place in its region. Due to the abolition of the RDAs, that position is under review. The RDAs have not yet operated their break clause, so the expectation is that at least £500,000 will be honoured, and potentially the full amount. That will be in addition to the Government’s offer of support. In the interests of brevity, I shall not go into the details of that at this stage.

[Lord Prescott]

My Lords, what is the thinking that justifies 40 times the amount of money for a Rugby Union Cup Final as opposed to a Rugby League Cup Final and World Cup Final? The RDAs were offering £1 million, but the Government are now abolishing them. Is not the reality that the noble Baroness belongs to a department that does not have an elected northern member in it, so reflecting the north-south issue, with, once again, disadvantage to the north?

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord. As the daughter of a Lancastrian and a Durham mother, I may possibly stand for the north, but that is perhaps a little far-fetched. The noble Lord mentions the difference between the two fees. The tournament fee for the Rugby Union World Cup was part of the commitment demanded in the bidding process, but there was no such tournament fee for the Rugby League World Cup. In the interest of fair treatment, the Government have said that the underwriting should be pro-rata, with a provision of up to £625,000 should the event not make the projected £2 million profit. That has been agreed with the Treasury and needs to be formally agreed by Parliament. The Rugby League Board is still considering the proposals made by the Government and we await its response, probably early in December.