Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

Yes, I do. We have some of the most robust and effective legislation in the world to deal with terrorist suspects, and we will not hesitate in using every power at our disposal to protect the security of this country. Clearly, if there is evidence that people are engaged in terrorist-related activity, the police will investigate and take action.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

4. What steps she is taking to further assist the police in reducing the level of crime.

[The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims (Damian Green)]

We have freed the police from central targets, and police and crime commissioners are addressing the issues that matter to local people. We are cutting bureaucracy so that officers can be at the front line where they are needed, and the College of Policing is driving up professional standards. We are working with forces to tackle national priorities such as organised crime, gangs, modern slavery and violence against women and girls. The evidence is clear—police reform is working and crime is down.

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

The Minister will be aware that crime in Lancashire has been cut by 10%, but there is some variation in overall levels of crime across the country. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the police need to be more innovative and to share best practice right across the country in cutting crime and keeping our streets safer?

[Damian Green]

I agree with my hon. Friend, whose point about innovation is correct. That is precisely why we have introduced an innovation fund, which all forces have bid for. She will be aware from last year’s precursor fund that Lancashire successfully bid for the collaboration we want—a joint initiative with Lancashire county council to create an early action response service for missing people, vulnerable people and those with mental health issues. That is precisely the innovative collaboration that will enable crime to continue to fall.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Monday 2nd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The hon. Lady is aware of the legislation, as is everybody else, but I take issue with her description of TPIMs. As she will have heard me say in answer to her hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), TPIMs provide some of the most restrictive measures available in the democratic world. The independent reviewer of terrorism legislation stated:

“In terms of security, the TPIM regime continues to provide a high degree of protection against untriable and undeportable persons who are judged on substantial grounds to be dangerous terrorists,”.

The hon. Lady talks about people coming off TPIMs as if no one had ever come off a control order. In fact, 43 people came off control orders because the previous Government revoked them because they were quashed in court, or in six cases because people absconded and were never seen again.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

18. What steps she is taking to broaden entrance to the police service.

[The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims (Damian Green)]

We have moved away from a single point of recruitment and are introducing entry direct to senior police ranks to encourage the most able and those with strong evidence of delivery. There are now different routes to enter as a constable, including having a level 3 qualification, a police qualification or relevant policing experience.

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

Some claim that a person cannot serve as a senior police officer without having served in the lower ranks, but direct entry is successful in the armed forces and the prison service. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the College of Policing should look at best practice in those professions to ensure that direct entry encourages the best and brightest talent from all walks of life to join the police service?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to assure my hon. Friend that the College of Policing will do exactly that. Clearly, many of the best and brightest people already join the police service, but we can always make it better. The proposals are designed to ensure that a wider talent pool is available to the police.

Family Migration

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

What I think is absolutely right is that the British Government should say that if somebody is bringing somebody in here to be their spouse or partner, they should be able to support that individual and the family life they are going to have. That is important, and that is what the Government are saying. The right hon. Gentleman talks about the income threshold being arbitrary, but it is not arbitrary. The Migration Advisory Committee looked at various levels of income and this was the level it said was the point at which people could generally support themselves without having to be reliant on income-related benefits. It suggested a higher level to us as well, but we chose this level. I think it is right that people should be able to support the individual they are bringing in to be their partner or spouse.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

I welcome the fact that an English language requirement has been introduced for foreign spouses coming to the UK. What further measures will be put in place to ensure that those coming here legally can be properly integrated into our communities?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. This is not just about numbers; it is also about ensuring that people are able to integrate and participate fully in British society, and speaking the English language is an important part of that. That is why from next year we will raise the required level to intermediate level. We will also require people to take the “Life in the UK” test, to ensure that they have an understanding of life here in the UK, because we want the people who come here to be able to participate fully in British life, and to contribute fully to it, as I am sure they want to do.

Police (Detention and Bail) Bill

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

I am delighted to have caught your eye for a second time in the past hour, Mr Deputy Speaker.

We are debating this emergency legislation today because accepted police practice of more than a quarter of a century has been challenged. The legislation is not only vital, but urgent for maintaining the ability of our police forces across the country to do their job of catching criminals and protecting the public they serve. The ruling by High Court judge Mr Justice McCombe on 17 June—that time spent on police bail over any period should count towards the maximum 96-hour limit for pre-charge detention—has destabilised our police and the very heart of our criminal justice system. In the words of the chief constable of West Yorkshire police, this has left officers

“running around like headless chickens...wondering what this means to the nature of justice.”

As a Member of the Home Affairs Committee, I was fortunate to hear from some of the most senior police officers in the country about the negative effects that this ruling has on the police and the criminal justice system. A staggering 80,000 people in pre-charge bail cases would be affected by the ruling. In Lancashire, where my constituency is, 2,227 suspects would be affected on pre-charge bail. This Tuesday the Committee heard from Steve Bloomfield, a Metropolitan police commander and the lead in the fallout of this case, and Jim Barker-McCardle, the chief constable of Essex police and the ACPO lead in this area. These professionals, who are truly eminent in their field, outlined the detrimental effects of suspects who would normally be released on bail being detained for longer. They were asked whether the police would have sufficient cell capacity as a consequence of the judgment. Chief Constable Barker-McCardle said that they would have the capacity in the short term—for the next few weeks—but that over a period of months they would cope but with some difficulty.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

On that point, does my hon. Friend also accept that in the case of mass demonstrations and the arrests that accompany them, it is often physically impossible to detain everyone necessary?

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the fallout from the judgment would be exacerbated by mass arrests resulting from public order incidents. Without this urgent and necessary legislation, we will need more cells than we currently have. Otherwise, suspected criminals will be set free until they commit a further crime. As my hon. Friend has said, the fallout from mass arrests as a result of public order incidents would increase.

This judgment also puts victims of crime and the general public at greater risk. Chief Constable Barker-McCardle was asked by the Home Affairs Committee whether this was an issue of public safety, to which he responded that it undoubtedly was. He said, “unhesitatingly, unqualified –yes”.

I was astounded to hear that under the judgment a situation could arise in which a perpetrator of domestic violence would be perfectly able to revisit the home of the initial crime, breaching a bail order, and the police would not be allowed to detain such a person for the breach unless a new offence was committed. Under these circumstances, the perpetrator cannot be detained until a further violent incident occurs. We have a responsibility to victims of domestic violence to ensure that this madness is not allowed to continue and that we allow the police to do their job and protect the public from crime.

I am glad that the Bill is retrospective, which will prevent people taking action in the courts. The judgment prevents the police from doing their job and puts victims at greater risk. I am delighted that the Government have introduced the Bill so speedily and with such urgency. I am sure that it will be supported by Members on both sides of the House.

The judgment by Mr Justice McCombe has upset the balance in our criminal justice system. For 25 years the police have been relied upon to catch criminals and we entrust the courts to ensure that justice is served. This emergency legislation redresses that balance by giving the police the assurance that they can continue to operate in the way they have for many years—protecting the public. I am sure that the House will give the police that assurance today by passing the bill, which is essential to put things right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve McCabe]

Presumably, one reason why that guy is one of the country’s leading legal experts is that he, rather remarkably, anticipated such a judgment and was able to give some advice and guidance on what might be necessary if it were so. I am not therefore too concerned with that point.

Are we seriously being asked to believe that Ministers and officials sit in the Home Office and wait to see whether the police have any concerns, and that if the police do have concerns, they e-mail, phone or send a carrier pigeon to the Home Office at which point Ministers suddenly start to take their responsibilities seriously? If that is what we are being asked to believe, I have a suggestion for the Home Secretary: why does she not make some cuts by sacking some of her useless officials, rather than police officers? It sounds as if they are not serving her particularly well.

The hon. Member for Beckenham, who has left his place, asked whether it was true that no one had been harmed as a result of the judgment. We do know, as the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice said, that 80,000 criminal suspects were affected by the decision, and the implications of it are one obvious reason why we are here today.

I am not entirely sure that I agree with the hon. Member for South Ribble (Lorraine Fullbrook), who said that there were no problems with detention, because earlier this week I read a report stating that, certainly in the west midlands, the police are decommissioning detention cells as a result of the budgetary savings that they are required to make, so in some parts of the country there may be pressure on police cells as a result of the situation.

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

I was citing evidence that was given to the Home Affairs Committee, and the hon. Gentleman, as a fellow member of the Committee, was at the relevant session on Tuesday.

[Steve McCabe]

The hon. Lady may remember that during the same evidence session the police officer concerned referred to 5,000 as opposed to 80,000, but under further examination we discovered that he was talking about the Met police area rather than the whole country.

I plan to support the legislation, because we are where we are and I do not want to make the job of the police any more difficult. The Government’s police cuts, in what looks like a concerted attack on Britain’s policing institutions, are making their job hard enough, and I have no desire to make it any worse, but I do not accept the Government’s version of the events that brought us here.

I have a question about how the emergency legislation has been framed. Earlier, the Home Secretary cited Liberty as an organisation that supported it, and I think I am right that Justice is one of the others, but Liberty makes an interesting case about the lack of safeguards in the legislation and a persuasive case for a sunset clause, whereby we deal with the immediate problem but then, at a more leisurely pace, look at the wider issues. Given that the problem went undetected for 25 years, that may be a worthwhile route to pursue.

On the retrospective nature of the legislation, I agree that it is necessary in order to deal with those 80,000 cases—and probably even more so in order to deal with what happens between now and 12 July, when it comes into effect. However, our law—I think this is the point that the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) was alluding to—relies on citizens being able to predict in advance when the act of a public authority will be lawful. Introducing a retrospective clause, albeit for understandable reasons, creates a situation whereby something that someone was doing yesterday, reasonably assuming it to be lawful, could be unlawful tomorrow, so that retrospectively they could suffer the consequences. That has major implications for the way in which citizens should view their relationship with the state. I do not object to the retrospective aspect, but it leads to an argument for a sunset clause so that we could have an opportunity, at some point in the future, to consider the implications of having to make such judgments.

Members have mentioned the problem of the length of time for which people may be held on police bail, particularly where it has conditions attached. The shadow Home Secretary used the example of bail restrictions designed to protect the victim from the alleged offender in domestic violence cases. I can understand that. However, I can think of a case in my constituency where a constituent had a bail order applied to him for over 12 months, and one of its restrictions was that he could not use his bank account because the case involved a fairly complex fraud. As a result, he had immense difficulty in meeting his daily living expenses. In the end, all the charges were dropped and he was never brought to court for anything at all. There is already a provision in PACE whereby, when the police apply for an extension, they have to give assurances that they will not take undue time in dealing with the matter and having excessive periods of bail.

These provisions raise once more the issue of bail conditions. We are putting through legislation to deal with a very particular crisis, but in the course of examining it we are opening up wider questions that would merit a much broader debate at some point in the future. Even at this stage, the Government could consider a sunset clause. They are getting absolute co-operation today in dealing with the immediate problem that we face: whether that is partly their own fault or entirely the fault of the courts is a matter of debate. In return for that, the emergency legislation should be used only very sparingly. It is not unreasonable for Parliament to say that the issues that are raised while emergency legislation is being passed should be subject to much greater debate and scrutiny in future.

Prevent Strategy

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

It is our intention that there will be different responsibilities for those matters. We will allow the Department for Communities and Local Government to identify how it wishes to operate its integration strategy. I believe that hon. Members will hear more from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on the wider issues of community cohesion, participation in society and integration in due course. We will bring together a joint board to ensure that all activity takes place against the Government’s overall objectives in this area. I expect that that board will look at the interface between the Prevent strategy and the integration strategy of the Department for Communities and Local Government. We will not label the DCLG work as part of the Prevent strategy, and it will not be part of the counter-terrorism strategy run by the Home Office.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend reassure my constituents in South Ribble that these reforms will ensure that the Prevent programme is properly focused and, above all, more effective than it has been?

[Mrs May]

I welcome my hon. Friend to the House following her recent illness. It is good to see her back in her seat. It is certainly our intention to monitor how money is spent on Prevent to ensure that it is spent effectively. In looking at the programmes that work, we will ensure that the decisions that are made are fully evidence-based.

Student Visas

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

During the consultation, we had discussions with the Scottish Government and the Secretary of State for Scotland. He and I spoke about the concerns that Scottish universities had raised with him, one of which related to students who had an entrepreneurial idea and wished to stay on to launch a business. That is why we are ensuring that, within the post-study work rules, there will be a possibility to protect student entrepreneurs.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

The shadow Home Secretary claimed last month that, under the points system, “a lot of progress” was being made. Will my right hon. Friend assess the progress that Labour made in controlling migration?

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. The answer is a very short one, because Labour did not make any progress in controlling migration, as we saw from the fact that it closed tier 3 of the points-based system, as though that would have some magic result for immigration, and all that happened was that the number of student visas went up instead.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

15. What plans she has to assist police forces to tackle antisocial behaviour.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

18. What plans she has to assist police forces to tackle antisocial behaviour.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (James Brokenshire)]

The Government recently launched a consultation on reforming the toolkit for dealing with antisocial behaviour. The proposals will reduce the bureaucracy, delay and cost that hamper the police and their partners. We are also working to help police forces improve their service to victims by, for example, supporting eight police forces in trialling a new approach to handling calls on antisocial behaviour.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

What can be done to engage young people early in order to prevent their engaging in antisocial behaviour?

[James Brokenshire]

The issue relating to young people and antisocial behaviour is important. It is also worth recognising that most victims of antisocial behaviour are young people themselves. The Government are focused on intervening early: the early intervention grant, which is worth about £2.2 billion, will support activities to help young people start off in a positive way. Clearly, young people can be victims of antisocial behaviour, which is why it is important that we take action early to prevent it in their communities.

Proposed Directive (Information Systems)

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

The directive is focused on the criminality and on cyber-attacks. It includes provisions on mutual co-operation, but it does not set the sort of framework to which my hon. Friend refers.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that the measure is not about sovereignty, but about practical co-operation that is vital to our national interests?

[James Brokenshire]

My hon. Friend sums up the measure very well. It is very much focused on practical co-operation and on ensuring common standards, which, building on co-operation, better information and mutual assurance, provide practical benefits for the United Kingdom, given the challenges that we face from cybercrime committed not only in this country, but in other EU countries.

Counter-terrorism Review

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

There is a significant difference between telling people that they cannot do something and watching people while they are doing certain things, while enabling them to lead as normal a life as possible commensurate with the protection of the public. That, I believe, is the balance that we have achieved in these new measures.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

I welcome the Home Secretary’s announcement about the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. No longer will local authorities be able to spy on law-abiding residents who may commit heinous crimes such as putting out their dustbins or taking their children to school.

[Mrs May]

That is an extremely valid point. I believe that local authorities’ misuse of RIPA powers has done much to reduce the public’s confidence in counter-terrorism legislation, and that today’s move is important for that reason.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Fullbrook Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

5. What recent steps she has taken to make police forces more accountable to local residents.

[Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)]

8. What recent steps she has taken to make police forces more accountable to local people.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert)]

The introduction of elected police and crime commissioners to hold their chief constable and force to account through a strong public mandate will restore the connection between the police and the people, ensuring that the police are held to account democratically, not bureaucratically by Whitehall.

[Nick Herbert]

Decisions on whether to continue with the basic command unit structure within forces are a matter for chief constables to decide, and not one on which the Government have taken a view. I appreciate my hon. Friend’s concerns about resources and am happy to discuss them with him and to find out from the chief constable when I next see her, which will be this week, what she plans to do to allay them.

[Lorraine Fullbrook]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that a partnership between the police force and the local community is the best way to tackle crime?

[Hon. Members]

Thanks for that!