Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Featherstone and Paul Flynn

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T8. Can we do something practical about prosecuting cases of female genital mutilation? Many such cases have been taken to court in France, but we are in a disgraceful position here. Can we get it through to the communities that tolerate FGM that we in this country are serious about this issue? This barbarism has to stop.

[The Minister for Crime Prevention (Lynne Featherstone)]

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman, but I do not think that the Opposition should even begin to criticise the Government on this, because we have done more in two years than was done in the 13 years of the Labour Government. Prosecutions are important, and the first one will come to court after the new year, but our focus has to be on prevention and protection, and it is.

Animal Experimentation

Debate between Baroness Featherstone and Paul Flynn

Wednesday 7th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Lynne Featherstone]

The European directive provides an opportunity to reduce some of the bureaucracy, but when it comes to animal welfare, I am looking closely at anything that might suggest any reduction in standards.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Other forms of animal abuse involve small numbers—hundreds or thousands—of animals, but in comparison animal experiments involve them in their millions. Will the Minister tell me how many animals are subjected to experiments now and what she hopes the numbers will be in 2015?

[Lynne Featherstone]

I will have to write to the hon. Gentleman on the absolute numbers. I am not sure whether he means every animal in every experiment. What I am looking at in respect of the coalition commitment is whether we can use absolute numbers, how we should count genetically modified animals that receive no other harm, and what impact would be made if this country’s scientific community were to attract more investment. I am looking for something substantive, so that we can know exactly where we are with animal usage in experiments and so that I can deliver the coalition commitment in real terms.

Let me deal with some of the specific issues raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West. He asked about thalidomide. At that time, there was much less animal testing, and thalidomide was tested only on rats. The toxic effects, however, are seen in rabbits. That tragedy led to the current system of testing, which is more robust.

[Paul Flynn]

If the Minister looks at the research findings, she will find that thalidomide was tested on rabbits, and tested on pregnant rabbits. Only when it was tested again on a particular strain of rabbit did the deformities appear. That is an example of a major failure of animal testing.

[Lynne Featherstone]

I accept that it was a major failure, as was the testing of Vioxx, notably in the case of the six gentlemen who went for trials. However, I am sure that if I asked my officials to find examples of test results that have been beneficial to mankind and saved many lives, we would see the other side of the coin. I do not think absolute policy should ever be based on specific and exceptional incidents, but we all work constantly to improve the situation.

Vioxx was licensed for clinical use on the basis of a battery of tests, including non-animal tests, animal tests and clinical trials. The problems were extremely rare, and came to light only when tens of thousands of patients were prescribed the medication. However, it is now alleged that the manufacturer, Merck, suppressed some safety-relating findings. I do not know whether that is the case, but if it is, there may be no substance in the belief that animal test data were misleading.

Let me now deal with the key issues raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West about the usefulness of animal models as a means of investigating human disease. I have some sympathy with his arguments, to the limited extent that I think we should look critically at the animal models that are used and replace them with new or better models and technologies as and when they are developed. I believe that that is what happens in practice, but if there is complacency, I will do—indeed, I am already doing—my level best to challenge it, and so, I believe, will the National Centre for the Replacement, Refinement and Reduction of Animals in Research. I have visited laboratories and met representatives of the centre, and I think there is a general consensus that good science results from the best research, whether it involves animal models or human trials. We want good science, because there is no point in coming up with results that do not lead people to want to do their work in this country and obtain the best results.

[Paul Flynn]

Will the Minister give way?

[Lynne Featherstone]

I fear that the hon. Gentleman is more of an expert than I am.

[Paul Flynn]

The Minister has been very generous in giving way.

In the case of Vioxx and Seroxat, both of which have had major adverse side-effects, the problem seems to lie with the regulatory body. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency is funded entirely by the pharmaceutical industry. Until we have some independent control, the suspicion will always be there that the one who pays the piper calls the tune for commercial gain.

[Lynne Featherstone]

The hon. Gentleman has raised an interesting point, but my hon. Friend’s main point seemed to be that the human trials of Vioxx revealed an issue of which no one took any notice.

I think that my hon. Friend went a bit too far in suggesting—if I heard him aright—that animal models could not, or perhaps could only rarely, be used effectively to find treatments for human diseases. I believe that they have contributed hugely to the development of drugs that have saved lives.