Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid the noble Lord will not be happy, but I cannot say more than I have said. Some of the details of the exact mechanisms will be open to discussion. I will not pre-empt negotiations or discussions and do not think it would help the process if I did. I am sorry I cannot say any more to the noble Lord.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, having taken part in the original power-sharing agreement in the 1970s, I can tell the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, that these differences are extremely hard to disentangle in the atmosphere of Irish politics—but it is a pertinent question and I see why he is asking it.

I welcome this protocol very warmly indeed. I was a bit depressed by the question from the noble Lord, Lord Hain, which seemed very negative, but I thought his own Front Bench sounded a shade less negative. I do not know whether I am reading too much optimism into the situation. That is the big question: where are the Opposition on this matter? Will they support the protocol and the deal? The Government do not have a stable majority in the House of Commons. The position of the Opposition is absolutely crucial, so let us please have an answer to that question: will they support it or not? We know that the Lib Dems, of course, are against it all because they do not want this to happen at all. They want some other course, which I cannot quite fathom but which certainly would not benefit the national interest of this country.

Is not one of the missing factors in all this the concept of time? Time is a great solvent. As I understand it from this report, there is the transition period first—during which, we hope, the Northern Ireland Assembly will be recreated and give its consent—then there are four years before the issue comes up again, then a lapse of a year if, at the end of the four years, there is a vote for a change or it has not worked. Surely the enormous ingenuity of the people of Ulster, Northern Ireland, and the tremendous dynamism and creativity of modern Dublin and the modern Republic are between them capable, over all those years, of producing workable solutions in the modern world. Should we not put the concept of time a bit more into this before rushing to judgments?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for his more optimistic outlook. He is absolutely right: our proposal is that before the end of the transition period, then for every four years after that, the UK will provide an opportunity for democratic consent in the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive for the regulatory alignment arrangements, within the framework set out in the Good Friday agreement.

My noble friend is also absolutely right that the reason we have brought forward these new proposals and will be working incredibly hard over the coming weeks is that we need to get agreement in the other place to support them, which we have not managed to do with the backstop in its current state. That is an absolute priority for us. We very much hope that through further discussions and negotiations across all parties and all Benches, both in this House and the other place, we can get to a point where we can get a deal and move on to start talking about the positive relationship we want with the EU. That is what we all want to be talking about, and it feels as if it is time we really tried to get on to that, so that we can move on.

Update to Parliament

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The reaction of the noble Lord, and this House, to the Statement have been quite clear. There is not much I can say: I am repeating the Statement, but I have heard what the House feels about it. All I can say to the noble Lord is that I continue to try to be—I am—the voice of the House of Lords in Cabinet. I speak for this House, I put forward the representations of this House and I am very happy to put forward the representations I have heard in the Chamber today. I thank him for his kind words. As I mentioned to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, the court did not say that the Prime Minister should have given evidence, and my understanding is that it would have been unprecedented for him to do so.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

To try and strike a more positive note, has my noble friend noticed, in the last eight or 10 days, that the great organs of the media—the Financial Times, the Times, the Telegraph, and indeed the Daily Mail, but also Sky television and the BBC, have all changed their tune? They all said a fortnight ago that any change in the withdrawal agreement was impossible and could not reopened, and that they had heard it from Brussels that there could be no shifting on the Irish border situation. They are now all arguing that maybe it is possible that all the constituencies involved, in Belfast, Dublin, Brussels, and here in the House of Commons, may be coming together on changes that make it possible for there to be an invisible border with, nevertheless, the integrity of the EU and of the United Kingdom preserved. Would she like to bear that in mind, and might that not bring a little cheer to this rather gloomy debate?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. He is right that progress is being made. I am not saying that there are not significant hurdles still to get through—there are; but we are having constructive talks. As I said, talks are going on today and there will be a further schedule of meetings going on. We have been having detailed discussions focused on finding an alternative to the backstop. Ideas that we have put forward to avoid a hard border include alternative customs arrangements, alternative arrangements for ensuring regulatory compliance, a single SPS area for Ireland and how to ensure consent from Northern Ireland. We are discussing these issues and are making progress. That is an absolute focus of this Government, because we want to achieve a deal. Obviously, the EU Council meeting in the next couple of weeks will be a critical part of that process.

G7

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, 3 September was the day we went to war. It was also the day of the Battle of Dunbar, which Cromwell called his crowning mercy; and it was also the day on which I joined the Army.

As my noble friend has made clear, many issues were discussed at the summit and it is a pity that it could not put together a communique showing some agreement on serious matters such as the polarisation of conflicts in Hong Kong, the Amazon burning and so on. So, we come down to the familiar issue of the unnecessary backstop. Here, I put to my noble friend a puzzle. Clearly, there has been some progress, but the puzzle is why there has not been more. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Newby, said, an enormous amount of detailed work based on experience of borders all around the world has been done, is being developed and is being further pursued. Special zones work all around the world and can be used in Northern Ireland. I am familiar with that border because back in the 1970s I helped to try to police it for security reasons—with very little success, I may say, because it is totally permeable. We have the common travel area. The Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom are both outside the Schengen area. Common provisions can be developed for livestock and all the necessary related checks. There is a huge amount of common activity already. It surprises many of us that, with all the work that has been done, progress is still very sticky and slow. Will the Leader of the House reassure her colleagues that those who have been involved with this border over the years understand that alternative arrangements are available, can be developed and can be pushed forward? If we do that, I think it would be understood by Mr Macron and other key players that—in his own words—it is unnecessary, and if it is unnecessary, why keep it?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. He is absolutely right that a range of technical solutions are already being used. He mentioned a few. Others include trusted trader schemes, transit provisions, frontier zones and electronic pre-clearing for goods moving across the border. There is a lot of work ongoing, looking at how these solutions can come together in order to mean that we do not need the backstop.

My noble friend mentioned that there was no communique. France had said all along that it wanted to move beyond the standard format, which is why only a statement was published rather than a communique.

Priorities for the Government

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 25th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to join with all others in the kind remarks about the Chief Whip. He has been a tower of strength and reassurance in somewhat uncertain times. I am sorry that he is going, and I thank him very much.

I applaud the ambitious tone of the Statement, with talk of a new golden age. Perhaps this is something we all need to cheer us up. Perhaps I may add, in disagreement with the noble Lord, Lord Newby, that there is massive evidence that other arrangements for the border can be designed. My desk is piled with huge volumes and if he wants some more bedtime reading, I will transfer them to his desk so that he can read them during the recess. There are many other ways of tackling that issue.

Perhaps I may suggest that our particular role here in your Lordships’ House will be to remind the policymakers and the people who put together the thoughts behind this Statement that huge changes are going on in the wider world. There are forces at work that will override almost anything that we do ourselves and shape our fate decisively. Global economic growth is one, massive migration is another, the total dependence on investment is a third, the rise of China is a fourth, the arms race is a fifth, and there are many others. It is perhaps a pity that the Statement did not quite reflect that, sadly, not everything is within our control and there are great global changes that we must now address with huge vigour. That said, I see where the ambition is pointing; we on our side should do our best to support it through difficult and treacherous times, not least given the lack of a majority in the other place. But there is the wider world and, in the end, these bigger forces are the ones that will shape our lives, our future and our survival.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. He is, of course, absolutely right and that is why we want to move on to the next stage of developing our future relationship with the European Union and start looking at all the other things we can do as a global Britain once we have sorted out leaving the European Union.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think I have been quite clear on the process in terms of a second referendum. There will be opportunities within the discussions on the withdrawal Bill for debates to be had on that. As for no deal, I can only repeat what I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that, yes, Parliament has rejected leaving without a deal on several occasions but it remains the legal default position.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, we are obviously not going to get much in the way of support from the Official Opposition—that is their job—but will my noble friend remind her critics that what everyone calls the PM’s deal is in fact the treaty agreement between Her Majesty’s Government and the European Commission? That is in fact the only path that is available for fulfilling the undertaking of both main political parties that the Brexit referendum decision should be obeyed. Does she also recall the adage of Winston Churchill that one should never commit political suicide, because you may regret it afterwards? Will she draw that to the attention of the hard-line Brexiteers in our own party who are at the moment bent on destroying the very cause that they claim to espouse?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that the withdrawal agreement is an agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union. The EU has been very clear that this is the only deal available and that it will not be reopening the withdrawal agreement. All the arguments are about the future relationship. We need the withdrawal agreement to leave the EU; we need it in all circumstances, whatever your vision for the future relationship with the European Union. We have put together this offer, in the hope that MPs will support it, so that we can move on to the important issues both within this country and around defining our future relationship with the EU.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, this is welcome breathing space. We know that the withdrawal agreement is fixed and cannot be opened, but the cross-party talks have shown differences about the political declaration. Would my noble friend like to have a shot at explaining to some of us the difference between the withdrawal agreement, which offers a transition customs union followed by a customs arrangement, and a permanent customs union? As I understand it, the Labour Party wants a permanent customs union. In practice, what is the difference between the two? Are we ever in practice going to see any agreement from Her Majesty’s Opposition? Their job is to oppose. Why should they ever agree with us? That is not their main motive at all.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the Statement made clear, we are at a particularly difficult time. We need to find compromise. The House of Commons is deadlocked. In the Statement, the Prime Minister acknowledged that this is an unusual situation. However, talks have begun constructively. We are exploring areas of disagreement and areas of agreement. We are looking to move forward in the hope that we can get a common approach. We all want to leave the European Union in an orderly way. We want to ensure that we have a strong future relationship with the European Union. Crucially, any future relationship with the EU needs to be underpinned by a withdrawal agreement. That is needed to take forward the future relationship. If we can agree a withdrawal agreement, we can move forward to tackle the other issues about which noble Lords and, indeed, Members of the other place are particularly concerned and, I hope, develop the relationship with the EU that we want to see in the future.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has been very clear. Her priority is delivering the result of the referendum that we have. That is why she has worked so hard to negotiate a deal and that is why we believe this deal is the best option. But, as we have said, if the amendment in the other place passes, there will be the opportunity for indicative votes to happen, but we remain of the view that we should respect the result of the first referendum, and indeed the result of the election, during which both major parties said that they would respect the referendum result.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Have we got things quite straight about this week and next week? The Prime Minister has concluded that as things stand there is still insufficient support in the House to bring back the deal for a third meaningful vote, but she has also said that,

“if the House does not approve the withdrawal agreement this week”—

that is, the meaningful vote again—

“our departure will instead be extended only to 11 pm on 12 April”.

So 12 April it is. Is that right?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Statement makes it clear that at this point the Prime Minister does not believe that she has support for the deal, but we still have several days of this week left. Anything can happen, as noble Lords know.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I say again, we are making good progress. As of today 424 Sis have been laid; we are making good progress. Since we returned in January we have debated more than 50. We have passed numerous pieces of legislation, and, as I said, in the last fortnight alone we have considered three Brexit Bills. Of course, in tabling legislation in this House we discuss it with the usual channels to ensure that we can give this House time to scrutinise legislation as it wishes. We will continue to do that in a constructive manner.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition obviously have a key part to play in this whole business, and I think many of them wish it could be a responsible part. Could we ask, through the Leader of the House, where they stand now? If they are against the withdrawal deal—which they are, and if they are against no deal—which we all are—are they still in favour of bringing the whole thing to a general election, as I think they were earlier on? Could we just find that out?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am not sure that I am the best person to ask, but what I can say is that the Prime Minister in her Statement made it clear that she welcomed conversations with the Leader of the Opposition. I believe that Members on both sides are speaking again tomorrow and will continue to do so. What we want is a deal that has the support of the House of Commons across the House of Commons because we want a future relationship with the European Union that is positive and progressive. That is something that I believe everyone on all sides of both Houses wants to see happen.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 21st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I entirely disagree with the noble Lord. As I have said, the Prime Minister is focused on finding solutions that are negotiable and can command sufficient support in the House. I gently suggest to him that all other parties and leaderships have agreed to talk to the Prime Minister, but the leader of his party has not. It would be very good if he would change that position and get involved in these conversations, because they are so important.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, given that this excellent and welcome Statement makes it perfectly clear that the only honest ways to avoid no deal are either to support the withdrawal agreement or to revoke Article 50, which means the end of Brexit, would it not be worth considering making the Motion on 29 January a matter of confidence in Her Majesty’s Government?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Obviously, there was a vote last week which the Government won, so the House of Commons has shown that it has confidence in the Government.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 14th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord will be aware that in the current situation no deal is the default position if a deal is not agreed. We are having a vote tomorrow, with a good deal on the table for a strong relationship between the UK and the EU. It is the only deal the EU says is on the table. That is why the Prime Minister and all colleagues are working hard to make sure that the deal passes. We do not want no deal. There is a deal on the table. I urge MPs to vote for it.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware—she probably is not—that this morning I visited an exhibition which contained a book that included Dante’s “Map of Hell”, and that it bore a strong resemblance to the present state of the other place? Does she not agree that in the period of paralysis that seems to exist in the other place, the real emphasis needs to be on showing that the withdrawal agreement is only a step-by-step part of a very long process? It took us 45 years to become entangled with the European Union, and it is bound to take us years to fully disentangle ourselves without doing immense damage to our economy. So will she advise her friends to put more emphasis on the fact that this is a journey? It is a beginning, there are many difficulties and opportunities ahead, and it is step by step. Those who think that we can with one leap be free are showing that they are long on opinion but very short on experience.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with the sentiments expressed by my noble friend and I may well search out that book.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I do not agree with the right reverend Prelate on that point. The Government have been listening and it is for that very reason that the Prime Minister has now decided to go back to the EU to discuss the further reassurances that people are looking for, as has been made very clear in this House and the other place.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I will not try to put an aborted speech into a question. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, talks about “something else”. We know what his something else is—he has been very clear about it—but there are 16 or 17 something elses in the other place. Is it not a fact that Parliament is not a Government and that it cannot and never will agree by itself if it tries to take back control of this whole process? Is not the only conclusion a compromise negotiated by a Government with the agreement of the European Union, which we hope will make some small adjustments for that compromise? Does that not remain the only sensible way forward, short of total chaos?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. He is absolutely right that the negotiations involve compromise on both sides. We have a deal and EU leaders have been clear that it is the only one available. Having said that, we have recognised the strength of feeling on one particular issue—the indefinite, or perceived indefinite, nature of the backstop. It is something that both sides want to try to resolve because we both want a deal that will benefit the United Kingdom and the EU and ensure that we have a strong partnership going forward. That is in all our interests.

G20 Summit

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 3rd December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Obviously, we will have discussions with different countries and work out trade deals that work best for both parties, but we have been very clear that we will not be lowering our standards in a whole array of areas, because we have been world leaders in setting them and we want to remain so.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that this summit and the Commons Statement are remarkably forward looking—although one would not guess it from some of the curmudgeonly responses we have heard? Does it not mention both future trade deals under an independent trade policy, fundamental changes in the nature of trade, which do not seem to have reached a number of people talking about the subject, new areas of technology, women’s economic empowerment and, as we have already mentioned, the benefit of orderly exit from the EU? Should not excitable Brexiteers, and indeed the opposition parties, reflect a little on all that is really happening and important in the world before they try to destroy the Prime Minister’s perfectly sensible compromise?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. As I mentioned in my answer to the noble Baroness, a communiqué was adopted by consensus at this G20, which showed the constructive nature of the meeting. Of course, the G20 is vital to international economic co-operation. It brings together countries that collectively constitute 85% of gross world product and two-thirds of the world’s population, so it is essential that we continue to work collaboratively together to tackle some of the global issues that we all face.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 26th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The arbitration panel would be the body to consider, decide and resolve disputes. The panel will consider a dispute, make a ruling based on findings of fact and reach conclusions on questions of law or of interpretation of the agreement, other than on points of EU law. If the panel decides that there is a question of EU law which requires interpretation, it will submit a question to the CJEU, but it is for the panel alone to decide whether to refer that question or not, and the resolution of the dispute remains solely with the arbitration panel.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise—

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would my noble friend accept that when it comes to the ambitious new trade agreement which this document outlines—which is a very welcome and promising prospect—after 46 years of our two systems growing together and becoming entangled, the process of disentanglement, unwinding and building the new opportunities is bound to take considerable time? Would she accept that some of the impatient demands for more rapid solutions are quite inadequate in dealing with that situation? It has been said that the withdrawal agreement is a halfway house. Would she agree that if we can be allowed to get to that halfway house, this does indeed show the path that opens to the completion of our situation, which will be very much stronger than we have today? Could she explain why, when it comes to the international trade negotiations, this document just has a mention that this can be developed, whereas the withdrawal agreement is much more specific and talks about negotiating, signing and ratifying agreements which will come into force as soon the transition is over? Would she just reassure us that that, too, is part of the prospect in the future, which on the whole is greatly to be welcomed?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. I can certainly reassure him that the withdrawal agreement includes a legally binding commitment that ensures that both sides will use best endeavours to negotiate the detailed agreements he was talking about that will give effect to the future relationship, so that they can come into force by the end of 2020. We are obviously extremely pleased that the political document makes it very clear that whatever is agreed in relation to our future partnership with the EU must recognise the development of an independent UK trade policy, and of course during the implementation period we will be able to sign, negotiate and ratify our own trade agreements.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, we will now be able to talk about moving on to our future relationship, which will bring back exactly the kinds of powers and develop exactly the kind of relationship that the noble Lord is talking about. The withdrawal treaty is about leaving the EU; we can now look forward, having agreed that, to an excellent future relationship together.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, paragraph 4 of Article 129 of the withdrawal agreement makes the future arrangements for this country crystal clear. It says that,

“during the transition period, the United Kingdom may negotiate, sign and ratify international agreements entered into in its own capacity”.

That makes it very clear where the future lies, and perhaps contradicts what was said earlier. As the Labour Opposition Front Bench here in the Lords is so vastly superior to the Labour Opposition Front Bench in the other place, does my noble friend think that it might, on the day, support the withdrawal agreement or at least abstain?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that, under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, the UK will be free to negotiate, sign and ratify FTAs during the implementation period and to bring them into force from January 2021. I have no doubt that we will have many useful discussions in this House about the future relationship with the EU, and I look forward to them.

October European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I remind noble Lords that we do not intend to use either the backstop option or the implementation period extension. These are insurance policies. We are committed to achieving, and we expect to achieve, our new relationship with the EU by the beginning of January 2021. These are insurance policies, not things we intend to happen. The reason we are confident about achieving a good deal with the EU is that we are in the unique position of starting with the same rules and being in the same place: we are not coming from different situations, as was the case in other deals the EU put together. That is why we are confident, starting from being together, that we can come up with a good deal going forward that works for both of us.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as we pray in this House each day for the tranquillity of the realm, would it be worth sending a message to our more excitable and rather impatient Brexiteers, reminding them that it took 10 to 15 years for us to join the European Community, as it was then? We have been working together in a system with them for 46 years and therefore it is pretty likely that it will take a number of years for us to untangle all the arrangements we have made and withdraw in an orderly and sensible way. Is not the word that we really need, and which is missing in a great deal of this discussion at the moment, patience: an understanding that these things, if done properly, need to be handled very carefully and with great patience?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend and I entirely agree. I am sure that any of us would be grateful for his prayers to support us.

Exiting the EU

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I completely disagree with everything that the noble Baroness has just said.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I believe that the Prime Minister’s Chequers plan is actually moving in entirely the right and sensible direction. I particularly welcome the suggestion of an accession to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, because that is where all the great growth in consumer markets over the next 10 years is going to be. But does the Leader agree that it is perhaps time to point out to the two extreme wings and polarised views on this whole debate, first, that on the other side of the Channel in the EU things are changing very quickly indeed—there are convulsions going on, borders are being closed and an entirely new pattern is emerging, much more in line with the ideas of some of us about reforming the European Union generally—and, secondly, that in some ways it took us 20 years to work out how to enter the European Union in the first place and it is bound to take at least five years to get out, and a little more patience in politics is often rather useful?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. As I have said, this is a comprehensive and detailed plan and we are looking forward to negotiating with the EU. We do need to move at pace. Following Chequers, the Prime Minister has called a number of European leaders to take them through the plan. We are looking forward to negotiating our relationship. Those she spoke to, including Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and the Prime Ministers of Sweden, Malta and Ireland, welcomed the further clarity. Of course, we will be putting more information out on Thursday in the White Paper, and we will then be taking negotiations at pace in order to achieve a deal that works for both sides.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, contrary to the rather gloomy assessment that we have just heard from the noble Lord, Lord Newby, does my noble friend accept that it appears that the Prime Minister made very considerable progress on migration and defence and security? This is all the more remarkable when one needs to be aware, as I think some of your Lordships are not, of the enormous changes going on throughout continental Europe on these issues. The entire posture of the European Union in relation to freedom of movement, migration and immigration has changed radically and will do so again, while on security and defence we are in the midst of major changes, as will be seen at the NATO summit next week, when the challenge of President Trump will be one thing and the threat of Turkey to leave NATO altogether another. It seems that remarkable progress has been made in very difficult and fast-changing circumstances.

As to the specific issue of customs control and tariffs, again, I do not quite understand. The noble Lords opposite talked about time running out. This is a negotiation. Decisions and agreement come at the end of a negotiation. First, you have it, then you have the decisions and agreement. That is what we are moving to now. Frankly, I cannot quite understand what all the fuss is about from the Opposition Benches.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am very grateful for my noble friend’s support. I entirely agree with him.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think we will continue to have strong relationships because it is in all our interests. We work with our EU partners, with NATO and through the UN: we are involved in a whole array of international organisations. Other issues were discussed at the Council that have not yet been raised—our approach to Turkey and Afrin and issues around Cyprus, for example. We work with all our international partners in a whole range of areas. We bring a lot to the party, so do they, and we want to continue to do that. I see no reason why we cannot.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, may I just explain something to your Lordships about the Northern Ireland border and the customs union? I do not think it is very widely understood. Of course, I spent considerable time there. There is a border and there are enormous differences between the jurisdictions of the Republic and Northern Ireland. They extend to education, health services, minimum wages, aspects of labour laws, excise duties and personal taxation. All these things are different so there has to be a controlled border. Furthermore, at the moment only 4% of the goods coming into the EU through Britain are checked by the customs authorities—HMRC. In the case of the Republic, only 1% of goods coming from outside the EU are checked by the Republic. What I am saying is that this is a tiny problem. It is mostly concerned with animals and animal welfare; it can all be done by pre-checking and online arrangements. The idea that it should be built up into a major issue of challenges about the whole customs union is completely disassociated from the facts of the situation on the ground.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend that there are obviously issues that we overcome now without a hard border and we want to continue to do that. We believe we can achieve a deep trading relationship between the EU and the UK that means specific measures in relation to Northern Ireland are not necessary. We have also been very clear that we will ensure that the specific circumstances of Northern Ireland are recognised. That is what we will be working on intensively over the next few weeks.

United Kingdom-European Union Future Economic Partnership

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that this Statement is a welcome blast of common sense into an otherwise madly polarised debate? Will she also accept that the principle of mutual recognition, which has been embedded in EU law for the last 25 years and was in fact a British invention, can allow a welcome degree of flexibility in any kind of alignment or regulation or the development of different regulatory arrangements? It applies to all members inside the EU and to everyone associated with it, and there is no reason why we should not apply the same principles of mutual recognition, as the Prime Minister is arguing. Lastly, does my noble friend accept that of course there are cherries to be picked, but sometimes it is better to pick the cherries than to leave them to rot on the bough?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. I entirely agree. It is important to remember that many regulatory standards are themselves underpinned by international standards set by non-EU bodies so we are certainly committed, and believe it is absolutely achievable, to ensuring that our relevant UK regulatory standards remain as high as the EU’s. As I have said, many of these standards are underpinned by international standards—for instance, the UN Economic Commission for Europe sets vehicle safety standards—set by organisations of which we will continue to be a part.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that the noble Baroness’s question is predicated on us not reaching a suitable outcome that we all want. I just do not accept that.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the agreement and report not only carry forward the negotiation process, as we know was intended, but introduce a very welcome degree of flexibility to what has been a rather over-polarised situation and debate? Does she agree that, under the principle of mutual recognition negotiated long ago—which has allowed all EU member states to vary rules, regulations, taxes and other provisions very widely, as long as they share and respect the broad aims of the EU—this means that, in practice, “alignment” can be interpreted in any way that we choose, provided that it is consistent with the deep and special relationship and common sense? Is this flexibility not greatly welcome and does it not allow us to get on to the next phase in a constructive way?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend. As I say, we hope very much that the Council will agree sufficient progress on Friday so that we can move on to what we all want to do: talk about our future relationship. It is important for us to agree those terms now. As we have made clear, we are starting from a unique position of full regulatory alignment and we want to maintain our current high standards. This is a good basis for a constructive, deep and special future trading partnership.

Brexit: Irish Border

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am afraid, with that kind of approach, we will hear from the Conservative Benches.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is there not some confusion here between regulatory alignment and regulatory recognition? Is not the latter principle one on which there is perfect freedom for the whole United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, to make arrangements for outside trade in due course for continuing the smooth and reasonably frictionless low or non-border controls in Northern Ireland? What is the problem?

G20

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 10th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would my noble friend accept that there is actually quite a lot to welcome in this Statement from the point of view of the United Kingdom and other countries? I was particularly pleased that the intention to reform the World Trade Organization was in the Statement—that is overdue—and our decision to help Italy face the enormous new wave of migrants and refugees, since very few other European countries seem prepared to lift a finger to help Italy at present. That is a very creditable move by the United Kingdom Government. But does she not wonder whether the USA is quite as isolated as several commentators have claimed? CO₂ emissions in the United States are dropping faster than in almost any other country, admittedly from a very high level, whereas in Germany they are rising, which needs to be taken into account before one enters into too much condemnation of President Trump on that.

Finally, neither my noble friend nor the Statement mentioned where America and Russia may just be getting to over safer zones in Syria. It looks as if there is some progress there at last, which should be welcomed. Would she also explain to the noble Lord the Leader of the Liberal Democrats that the EU-Japan trade deal is a great thing but is by no means settled yet, and that it is a bit early to start claiming triumph and glory for it?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for covering a range of issues. We certainly called for changes to make the trading system more effective and quicker to act, and for all WTO members to take more responsibility for complying with the rules, but of course we made clear our firm commitment to free trade. The Prime Minister also discussed further aid to Italy, which is facing real problems in terms of the migrants who are coming over at the moment. We indeed welcomed the US-Russian agreement in relation to Syria: we obviously welcome any initiative that contributes to a reduction in violence in Syria and we hope that all parties will engage to this end. A genuine cessation of hostilities is fundamental to progress towards the inclusive political settlement that we will continue to work towards.