Role of the Lord Speaker

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I am coming on to, that is a role for party leaderships as well, but I will come back to that in a second.

I entirely agree that Questions is an occasion that could and should be enhanced by hearing from a broader range of voices across the House. One of our great strengths is the breadth of knowledge and expertise on our Benches, and Questions presents an excellent opportunity both to highlight that and—although difficult for those of us answering them—to hold the Government of the day to account. In order to achieve this, we rely on noble Lords to exercise restraint and self-discipline. We waste valuable time for Questions when noble Lords refuse to give way, but I also think we should expect noble Lords across the House to recognise this and take responsibility for it.

The noble Lords, Lord Grocott, Lord Rooker, Lord Low, Lord Foulkes, Lord Horam and Lord Snape, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, all referred to the atmosphere and behaviour we sometimes see at Question Time. Words such as “intimidating”, “fractious”, “undignified” and “unfair” were all used during various contributions. I gently suggest that it is for us as individuals to consider how we behave and to become more considerate of colleagues. If this is how we view Question Time, it is surely within our gift to help to change that. I am afraid I am not totally convinced that just having the Lord Speaker preside over this is the magic bullet. We are all beholden to look at our behaviour, but I also think there is a role for the party leaders—I include myself in this—to reflect on how we might try to encourage more Peers to take part and how we can more effectively look to encourage a wider range of voices to be heard.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

Will the noble Baroness accept that she is perhaps speaking to the converted? It may be that those who are not here act in the slightly grumpier and less courteous manner than noble Lords who are here today and are concerned about the issue.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I understand that but, as I said, we as Leaders have a role to think about how we might help to do this. As I have said, I am not completely convinced that just this move would change that, but I am very happy to have conversations about ways we can try to improve Question Time. I agree that it is an extremely important and valuable part of the work of the House.

As noble Lords will be aware, apart from overseeing proceedings in the Chamber, the Lord Speaker plays a key role in the Lords administration as the chairman of the House of Lords Commission. In this regard, we have seen recent reform with new governance arrangements agreed only last year on the back of the recommendations of a Leader’s Group established by my noble friend Lady Stowell of Beeston. That group’s recommendations were accepted by the House last May and have led to a refreshed and streamlined domestic committee structure and the new role of Senior Deputy Speaker, ably filled by the noble Lord, Lord McFall. The Lord Speaker is at the apex of this new structure and his partnerships with the party leaders, the Convenor of the Cross Benches and the Clerk of the Parliaments are at the heart of the decisions that direct the way the House is run.

The Lord Speaker is also ultimately responsible for security on the Lords part of the Parliamentary Estate—a responsibility that will assume only greater importance following the tragic events of last week. In this respect, he has a heavy burden to bear on our behalf and he does so with admirable grace and common sense. As my noble friend Lord Cormack and the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, recognised, he also has a very significant role representing the House on ceremonial occasions and as an ambassador at home and abroad. I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, about the important role that the Lord Speaker has in our outreach work, including the excellent Peers in Schools initiative. The Lord Speaker also takes extremely seriously the reputation of this House. I entirely endorse the comments that we are very grateful to him for the way he has been leading us in this regard. I hope we will all continue to support him to do so, because this is an extremely important role and we are very lucky to have him as an advocate for us.

I thank everybody who has contributed to this important debate. As I indicated at the beginning of my remarks, I do not intend to initiate an official review of the role of the Lord Speaker. As I am sure noble Lords will understand, there are other priorities on which I believe we should be focused—to name just a few, the increased legislation this House will be scrutinising as a result of Brexit; plans for the restoration and renewal of the Palace; and, of course, the security reviews that are now under way as a result of last week’s terrible events.

Ultimately, of course, this is a matter for the House to decide, with the option to bring forward proposals to the Procedure Committee being available to each noble Lord. As I hope I have indicated, I will keep an open mind about the working practices and procedures of the House more generally, and I of course appreciate that there is always room for improvement, so I am grateful for the opportunity to hear the views of noble Lords. I look forward to further conversations on this.

Motion to Adjourn

London Attacks

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 23rd March 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I want to say a few words on behalf of the House in response to yesterday’s tragic events. People from all over the world visit our capital city and this iconic building, the centre of our democracy. As is already beginning to become clear, the horror of yesterday’s events will be felt not just in this country but across the globe. We know that victims included citizens from Romania and South Korea and children from France on a school trip.

What yesterday’s rapid and effective response has shown is that the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, the ambulance service and the staff of both Houses have been well prepared for such a terrible event.

Yesterday was a shocking day for everyone who works within the Palace of Westminster, but what has shone through is the support and care that Members and staff showed for each other. I would like to thank all noble Lords for their patience and co-operation as events unfolded. All of us join together to extend our heartfelt sympathy to those who have tragically lost their lives, those who have been injured, and to their families. The thoughts of the whole country will be with them.

I am sure that all noble Lords will also want to join me in expressing our admiration and gratitude to the police and the security staff who selflessly put our safety before their own each and every day, especially those injured during yesterday’s devastating events. It is a reminder to us all of the risks they take in order to protect us and members of the public. In particular, our thoughts are with the family and friends of PC Keith Palmer. We will never forget his bravery and sacrifice.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I endorse the Leader of the House’s comments. After the numerous meetings we had yesterday, I also thank her for the personal leadership that she has shown. I also thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds for leading us in Prayers today. I think all of us feel the need to join in collective recognition of what London and our country have faced.

Last night as we returned home we were very grateful—not just because of the shocking and tragic events of the day but simply because we could return home and others would never do so. As the noble Baroness said, those injured and killed on Westminster Bridge were visitors and locals of our great global city. They were just going about their everyday business and enjoying their day. For many of the survivors, life will never be the same.

Each and every day, our police and security staff come to work not knowing what challenges and risks they may face. We all hope for the best—but their training, experience and commitment prepares them for the worst. They never know when they will be called upon to protect the public and those who work in the Palace of Westminster—and, indeed, protect the very home of our parliamentary democracy and all that it represents.

In doing so, police officer Keith Palmer lost his life. Every instinct he had was to protect others. There are no words that can do justice to the sense of loss felt by his family and friends, and by everybody across the Palace of Westminster—his parliamentary family.

In the Statement that follows we can perhaps look forwards to some of the wider issues, but now our thoughts are only for those affected in any way yesterday. It is hard to express the level of gratitude and appreciation due to all of those involved in the security and care operation. We pay tribute to the police, the medical and ambulance services, those staff at St Thomas’ who ran out to help those on Westminster Bridge, the fire and rescue service, our own Westminster security staff, and all staff and members of the public who sought to support those affected by these truly shocking events. In the worst of circumstances, they have given their best.

Lives have been lost and some lives will never be the same. Friends and families will share the pain and distress, as do we.

Death of a Former Member: Lord Waddington

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, it is my sad duty to report to the House the death of my noble friend Lord Waddington. Lord Waddington was one of the leading political figures of his generation. He arrived in this House as its Leader in 1990. By then, he had already had a long and distinguished record of service both as an MP and, at the highest levels of government, as Chief Whip in the House of Commons and then as Mrs Thatcher’s last Home Secretary. After his time as Leader of this House, he continued to serve his country as Governor of Bermuda.

On this day last week, many noble Lords may have had occasion to think of Lord Waddington. His maiden speech as Leader of this House was the last occasion on which the Prime Minister—then Sir John Major—sat on the steps of the Throne. That fact only hints at the legacy left by a great parliamentarian—a man who never abandoned his Lancastrian roots, retaining always a directness of approach, clarity of thought and plainness of speech which enabled him to cut through political complexity with enviable success; many of us wish we had that skill. His service to this House following his period as leader continued to show him at his best: a man of principle and grit; a tenacious and committed servant to the British public who effected real change, leading the charge from the Back Benches on major legislation such as the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill, to which he carried an amendment in 2008; a man who always thought of others before himself. It was typical of Lord Waddington that in 2015, he was one of the first Members to retire under the House of Lords Reform Act 2014.

At this sad time, we send the good wishes of the House and these Benches to his wife Gilly, to whom he was a devoted husband, and their children and grandchildren. We can only share in their sense of loss, but we can also take this moment to reflect on a career and a life of outstanding public service. Lord Waddington set a standard of dedication and integrity to which we can all aspire, and he will be missed by us all.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords as we have heard, Lord Waddington had a long and distinguished career as a lawyer, a politician, Governor of Bermuda and indeed Leader of this House and Lord Privy Seal. Many in your Lordships’ House today will know him well from his service in the other place as an elected MP and a government Minister, and will know that he was a man of strong conviction. I think he would have relished the description I read of him yesterday as being a no-nonsense politician.

Despite his very strong loyalty to Margaret Thatcher and his long and distinguished service as a Minister, he was surprised to find himself appointed Home Secretary, having himself recommended our Lord Speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, for the position. I was surprised to find that we had something quite unusual in common: as the noble Baroness said, in his case it was during his maiden speech in this House that the then Prime Minister, John Major, listened from the Throne steps.

Like many noble Lords, Lord Waddington’s dedication to and affection for his constituency, Ribble Valley, continued long after his elevation to your Lordships’ House. There is no doubt that he missed being its MP, given his deep commitment. In some ways he wrote his own obituary when, in an interview in The House magazine some years ago, he said with disarming self-deprecation—I think he was having a joke:

“I would like to be remembered as a decent local buffer who wasn’t all that clever, but in his own way tried to do his best”.


What more can any of us ask than that we try to do our best? On behalf of these Benches I offer sincere condolences to his wife Gilly, his family, his colleagues and his friends.

Business of the House

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 1st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I apologise for detaining the House as we have some important debates but I wish to raise an issue that has come to my attention this morning and which I think should be brought to the attention of this House.

Noble Lords will recall that, when the noble Baroness the Leader of the House made her Statement on the Government’s intentions regarding the Strathclyde report, it was warmly welcomed by this House; we were grateful for her comments and tone and the way that she has handled this issue. My understanding from that Statement and the debate was that we should abide by all conventions of this House and recognise our role as a second Chamber.

However, this morning—literally five minutes before I came to the Chamber—I found on my desk a report from David Lidington, the Leader of the House of Commons, on Strathclyde. The foreword of that report says:

“Whilst recognising the valuable role of the House of Lords in scrutinising SIs, the Government remains concerned that there is no mechanism for the elected chamber to overturn a decision by the unelected chamber on SIs. We do not believe that it is something that can remain unchanged if the House of Lords seeks to vote against SIs approved by the House of Commons when there is no mechanism for the will of the elected House to prevail. We must, therefore, keep the situation under review and remain prepared to act if the primacy of the Commons is further threatened”.

This is, again, a basic misunderstanding of how statutory instruments operate. This has never been an issue about the primacy of the House of Commons, but the primacy of the Government regarding secondary legislation. SIs come not from the House of Commons to this House, but from the Government to both Houses. They do not have to be considered by the House of Commons first—there is no mechanism to ensure they are considered first by that House. The conventions of this House are clear that, in exceptional circumstances—which I think has been five times since the Second World War—this House may reject a secondary instrument.

I appreciate that there is some difference between the Government’s understanding of SIs and ours, but I did really believe that the Government understood the conventions of this House as enshrined and accepted in the report of my noble friend Lord Cunningham, which was accepted by both Houses unanimously. When the noble Baroness the Leader reported to this House, we welcomed the content and her tone. She said—in an entirely reasonable comment—that,

“The Government are therefore reliant on the discipline and self-regulation that this House imposes upon itself. Should that break down, we would have to reflect on this decision”.—[Official Report, 17/11/16; col. 1539.]

I think that is entirely reasonable. Should the conventions break down, it is entirely reasonable that the Government should look at those conventions and perhaps revert to the Strathclyde review. However, that is a long way from what David Lidington says in his report. I have two questions for the noble Baroness. Do the Government still accept the Cunningham report and the conventions of this House as being the guidance underpinning our work, and to which we should adhere as a self-regulating House? The noble Baroness said in her Statement that, having considered the matter carefully, legislation would not be introduced. As I say, I have not had time to read the report published today in its entirety as I received it literally only five minutes before today’s proceedings in the House commenced. However, it says:

“We must … keep the situation under review and remain prepared to act if the primacy of the Commons is further threatened”.

David Lidington refers to that as being just the Lords seeking to vote against an SI. Does that mean that if somebody tables a fatal Motion, the Government will review the Strathclyde report and will be prepared to act? Or does it mean that if this House ever votes against an SI, legislation will be brought forward under the terms of the Strathclyde report?

I have enormous respect for the tone of the noble Baroness’s Statement and its understanding of this House. My criticism is directed not at all at her or at the Statement; it is directed entirely at what the Government now appear to be saying in David Lidington’s report. I would be very grateful to her if she could answer my questions but the Government need to reflect further on the Lidington report, and whether it should be withdrawn in the light of my comments today.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. I am sorry that she takes the view that she does. All I can say is that the Government of course recognise the conventions of this House. I reiterate what I said last week:

“We recognise the valuable role of the House of Lords in scrutinising SIs, but there is no mechanism for the will of the elected House to prevail when they are considered, as is the case for primary legislation”—

as the noble Baroness said, and I said—

“The Government are therefore reliant on the discipline and self-regulation that this House imposes upon itself … This House has an important role to play in scrutinising and revising legislation, and the Government recognise this”.—[Official Report, 17/11/16; col. 1539.]

Because of the constructive way this House works, we do not believe that we need to introduce primary legislation at this time. What I said last week remains the position of the Government. The tone I used and the constructive debate that we had is exactly what we need to see in this House. I reassure the noble Baroness that my Statement last week stands, as do the thought and intention behind it.

House of Lords: Appointments Commission

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Monday 28th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said to my noble friend, we believe that it is for political parties to be accountable for the Members appointed to their Benches, and that they should be responsible for ensuring that the people they nominate make an effective contribution. We believe that the current remit of the commission does an effective job in striking the balance between recommending independent candidates, ensuring the propriety of all nominees and maintaining the accountability of political parties for their nominations.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, has raised these issues before. I do not entirely agree with him but he is on to something here. The Appointments Commission has a specific purpose, including the clear, transparent understanding of the criteria for appointment to this House, and we do not have that for any political appointments. Last time we had the bizarre spectacle of a leaked name publicly withdrawing from a process that had not even been publicly acknowledged. Is there not a role for either HOLAC or a similar body not to make political judgments but to examine the contribution an individual could make, their expertise, interests and skills, and their willingness to contribute as a working Peer, as well as their suitability?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness makes an important point about the rigour with which the commission looks at propriety, by the very case that she raises. It has an extremely important role in considering the past conduct of nominees and looking at whether anything they have done in the past may bring the House into disrepute. It has a key role in that area.

Tributes: Baroness D'Souza and Lord Laming

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, your Lordships will have perhaps noticed something very different in the Chamber today, with the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, taking his place on the Woolsack for the first time. As we welcome him to his new role, we have an opportunity to pay tribute to his predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, for her service to the House. With the noble Lord, Lord McFall, now also in place as our first Senior Deputy Speaker, it would be an appropriate time as well for us to thank the noble Lord, Lord Laming, for his service as Chairman of Committees.

Although she was only our second Lord Speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, made the role her own. Building on the strong foundations of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and infusing the position with her own distinctive grace and poise, the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, served as a strong and distinguished voice for your Lordships’ House. She expanded the Peers in Schools programme, through which 100 Peers have visited more than 1,000 schools since 2011. She developed a new regional outreach programme, helping to educate people up and down the country on the extremely important work this House does. She has been a true champion of retirement since its inception, helping to build consensus to secure the legislation that allowed Peers to retire, offering the River Room for receptions for those retiring, and highlighting the success of the scheme within and outside the House. In each respect, she leaves a hugely valuable legacy. We can be particularly grateful for the way in which the noble Baroness served as our representative, whether in her outreach work, her efforts to build links with parliaments across the world or in welcoming world leaders to address Parliament.

No matter the setting, she discharged her responsibilities with great distinction and was a real ambassador for your Lordships’ House. Nowhere was that clearer than when she led tributes to Nelson Mandela in the days following his death. While I was not in the House, I know that she spoke movingly about his impact in a speech that was all the more profound because of its roots in the noble Baroness’s own experiences fighting apartheid in South Africa. The noble Baroness discharged her duties on and off the Woolsack with warmth and good humour. She leaves office with the respect and gratitude of the whole House, and I hope she will continue to bring her considerable wisdom to our work in the coming years.

We also owe a great debt of gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Laming. As has been said many times, he stepped into the breach in extremely difficult circumstances. As a House, we were incredibly lucky that in our time of need we could call upon the perfect man for the job, an unflappable and collegiate man who is truly dedicated to public service. Each and every one of us—certainly in my case from personal experience—can attest to his warmth and courtesy, but as Chairman of Committees we saw his other qualities as well: his expert chairmanship; his rigorous attention to detail; and his ability to navigate a straightforward path through the most complex of areas, something that I myself will have to learn. No doubt I will call on his experience.

No matter the subject, the noble Lord was assiduous in building consensus, and always with the same statesmanlike manner that he displayed in his four distinguished years as Convenor of the Cross-Bench Peers. What is more, he managed to combine the role of Chairman of Committees with the completion of his report In Care, Out of Trouble for the Prison Reform Trust. That he was able to discharge both responsibilities simultaneously showed off his seemingly endless reserves of energy, and I am delighted that we will continue to draw upon his expertise in his role as chairman of the Services Committee.

I conclude with congratulations and good wishes to the noble Lords, Lord Fowler and Lord McFall, as they take on their new responsibilities. While their predecessors will be hard acts to follow, both noble Lords bring with them a wealth of experience of Parliament that will equip them well for their work in the coming years. I am looking forward to working with both of them, and I am sure I speak for all noble Lords when I wish them the very best of luck and say that they carry with them the support and confidence of noble Lords on all sides of the House.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness has alluded to, today we pay tribute to two firsts in this House: the first Senior Deputy Speaker, my noble friend Lord McFall, and the first male Lord Speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. Today is an opportunity to thank both the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Lord, Lord Laming, for their services to the House.

As has been said, the noble Lord, Lord Laming, did not expect or seek the office of Chairman of Committees. If this is not telling tales, before the Summer Recess last year he shared with me that as his office as Convenor of the Cross Benches was coming to an end, he was looking to having more time for other activities in your Lordships’ House; indeed, we have heard about his work on the review for the Prison Reform Trust, In Care, Out of Trouble. He was not to have that, though, and instead he willingly took on what has been a demanding role. At all times he has brought his customary courtesy, his impeccable manners and his thoughtfulness to his work.

The noble Lord and I have served on many committees together, and I have greatly welcomed the consideration and integrity that he has brought to at times complex issues and his willingness to seek consensus wherever possible. I have also enjoyed his style of chairing committees; I can think of no occasion where a committee member has not considered that they have had a full opportunity to contribute, and we have still finished on time.

The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, as only the second Peer to hold the position of Lord Speaker, has approached her term in office with enthusiasm, dedication and great personality. She has reached out to the wider public about the work of our House, which has taken her across the length and breadth of our country, debating and promoting the role and purpose of the second Chamber. I hope there is a record of all the meetings and events that she has addressed during her time in office. It should be recognised that, perhaps uniquely among parliamentarians, she was rewarded with a standing ovation at the Women’s Institute.

Child Poverty

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 25th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating the Answer, but I am not really sure that it addresses the Question. Perhaps I may take her back. When the Labour Government brought in the Child Poverty Act, the commitment then was to seriously tackle the problem and it was enshrined in legislation. At that point, it was supported by the Conservative Party. Today, we hear that the Government are seeking to redefine child poverty now that it is on the rise for the first time in 10 years, with children turning up hungry at the school gate.

Will this decision be subject to the Prime Minister’s promised family test? What is more important: either tackling the problem by genuinely understanding how many children are living in poverty so that action can be taken to protect and support them and their families, or just masking the problem by massaging the statistics?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I reassure the noble Baroness that tackling child poverty is, and always will be, a priority for this Government. We have focused on tackling the root causes of poverty. That is how you really make an impact on people’s lives.