Occupational Pension Schemes (Collective Money Purchase Schemes) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Drake and Viscount Younger of Leckie

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their helpful contributions to this short debate. Furthermore, I thank some noble Lords for the advance notice of their questions, particularly because this is quite a technical set of regulations, as I think we all understand. Given the incessant rain that we have been suffering over the past weeks, frankly, the drier the better—and that goes for this subject, too.

For an individual member of a CDC scheme, this instrument’s key effect will be to help to ensure that in a period of extreme economic downturn the principles of CDC continue to operate correctly. When, as expected, Royal Mail launches its CDC scheme later this year—I hope that this answers the questions from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer—that member and their approximately 115,000 colleagues will be able to have more confidence that their new scheme will provide them with a regular income in retirement, with less exposure to the unexpected market shocks than might otherwise be the case. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, raised a number of questions about the future of CDC schemes and Royal Mail, and I shall attempt to answer them in more detail later in my speech.

Noble Lords raised a number of questions about the multiannual reduction provisions, which I shall attempt to answer. First, the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked why the weakness in the current drafting was not identified before. It is important that all new legislation is monitored carefully to ensure that it works as we intended it to. It is through this monitoring process that we identified that the current drafting did not meet all of our published policy intention. If CDC schemes are to succeed, it is essential that prospective schemes are clear about those requirements. I hope that answers one of the questions from the noble Baroness.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, also asked whether approval from the Pensions Regulator was required or needed before any offsetting could be implemented. The decision to implement a multiannual reduction, including any offsetting, rests with the trustees of the scheme. It is based on the most recent actuarial valuation prepared by the scheme actuary and is subject to the scheme rules. Pre-approval is not required, but the Pensions Regulator will have ongoing scrutiny over such decisions in the normal way and the trustees are required to share the actuarial valuation with the regulator, again in the normal way.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, queried whether the trustees could be penalised if they failed to provide relevant information to the Pensions Regulator. As she may know, the standard civil penalties provided for in legislation, for example up to £5,000 in the case of an individual and up to £50,000 in any other case, can be imposed by the Pensions Regulator if the requirements are not met.

Both the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, and the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, asked whether offsetting following a bounce-back in investment performance could be applied retrospectively. Perhaps I can reassure them that it cannot be applied retrospectively because a key principle of this provision is that any bounce-back should smooth outcomes going forward and avoid the need for cuts, where possible, while ensuring that the costs of current and future benefits remain in balance with the value of the scheme’s assets. I think that chimes with some of my opening remarks, and I hope that it answers the question.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, asked whether an actuarial threshold was required before the full three years of a multiannual reduction could be deployed. I will answer that. There is no threshold, as it is for the trustees, who are independent and acting in the interests of the members, to decide whether to apply a multiannual reduction based on the information contained in the most recent annual valuation, which is prepared by the scheme actuary. A significant cut to benefits would likely be required only in extreme circumstances, but we would expect the trustees to utilise the multiannual reduction mechanism in this scenario, if it is provided for in the scheme rules. If they did not do this, they would need to explain their reasoning to the Pensions Regulator.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Drake, and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, all queried the policy intention of Regulation 3(5) and what implications it had for the front-ending or back-ending of the offsetting of the remaining planned reductions of the multiannual reduction. I would argue that this gets to the meat and granularity of the policy. The aim is to ensure that, while a degree of smoothing is allowed over a multiannual reduction, as we know, over three years, cuts are not stored up and deferred by backloading the cuts. That is why the legislation ensures that the reduction applied during each year of a multiannual reduction must not be greater than that applied in the previous year: that is very clear.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, asked how a transfer value would incorporate a scenario where the member transferred out before the multiannual reduction was completed or any potential offsetting was applied. Transfer values will be based on the conditions applicable at the time the member requested the transfer and when they actually transferred out of the scheme. Their transfer value will reflect any cuts planned for future years under a multiannual reduction. This means that nobody choosing to leave a CDC scheme will get more or less than the value of their benefits at that particular point.

I move on to the theme of wind-ups, which was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Sherlock, who asked who qualifies as a successor and how you define one. I hope that I helped to answer that in my opening remarks, but perhaps I can go a bit further. Subject to scheme rules, this is an individual nominated by a dependant nominee or another successor to receive benefits following their death. Also, the scheme administrator can nominate a successor when, after that beneficiary’s death, there is no individual or charity nominated by that beneficiary.

I shall go a bit further on the question of transfers, which was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake. The beneficiary has a number of discharge options they can choose from that are set out in the regulations. They include a flexi-access drawdown, which is where, subject to what the pension scheme rules allow, in any year the beneficiary can choose to take no payment of drawdown pension, a regular series of payments, an irregular payment stream or their whole flexi-access drawdown fund as a single payment. So there are a number of options there. Trustees must have completed the transfer process before the wind-up of the scheme can be completed. The value of the accrued rights to benefits transferred would be calculated based on the circumstances at the point of the transfer request.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, asked a number of questions about how the Royal Mail CDC scheme will operate. Royal Mail has informed us that it and its unions have agreed that the vast majority of existing employees with more than 12 months’ service will be enrolled into its collective plan at the so-called go live. It has also informed us that eligible new employees who join after go live will not be required to make an active decision unless they decide to opt out of contractual enrolment to the collective plan once they reach at least 12 months’ service with the employer. Which scheme Royal Mail chooses to use as a nursery scheme for its employees’ first 12 months of service is a decision for it and its union, as long as it meets the requirements of automatic enrolment.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Sherlock, asked about the take-up of CDC in the UK. The Government are proud of the progress that we have made so far. During this Parliament, my officials worked closely with industry stakeholders to develop and bring into force legislation in 2021 to facilitate the introduction of single or connected employer CDC schemes. Over the past 12 months, the Government have announced a comprehensive package of pension reforms to provide better outcomes for savers and better support the UK economy. As part of that, we have been exploring the role that CDC can play in these reforms.

In answer to questions from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, I am pleased to say that our consultation on CDC provision for unconnected multi-employer schemes and master trusts demonstrated significant appetite for it. A number of noble Lords mentioned timing; we intend to consult on regulations this spring.

The noble Lord, Lord Palmer, asked when we will extend the CDC provision to unconnected multi-employer schemes, including master trusts. We are committed to facilitating further CDC provision as quickly as possible, but we want to make sure that we get the legislation right to help ensure that the interests of members in these new schemes are generally protected. We engaged extensively with industry during the drafting process to ensure that this will be the case. As was mentioned earlier, we will consult on draft regulations to facilitate whole-life, multi-employer CDC schemes later this year. Subject to parliamentary approval, we intend for them to come into force in 2025.

The noble Lord asked what work is being done to legislate for decumulation-only CDC. The answer is the same: we are keen to facilitate access to CDC schemes where this would provide better outcomes for members, as long as we can ensure the necessary member protections. I come back to that important word, “protections”. Building on our work to develop a whole-life, multi-employer legislative framework, we are working closely with the pensions industry and regulators to explore what will be needed.

I thank all noble Lords for this fairly short but valuable and constructive debate. I also thank noble Lords for giving me their questions in advance. I see that the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, is itching to get up so I will give way.

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

I did not want to get up too quickly. I do not want to hold up the closure of the debate on these regulations, but I was disconcerted by the Minister’s response on successors. Could he write to formally record what he said about that? For a trustee, a set of tax rules apply when the pension savings go into the estate and inheritance tax and a further set apply when the pension pot is handed over to a nominated beneficiary. Here we are talking about a second tier—a nominated successor to a nominated beneficiary. Trustees have to be very careful under which tax regime and to whom pension pots are being allocated. I struggled to follow what he said on that—because it is complicated, not because he did not explain it. I was thrown by the word “successor” when I read the regulations. It would be helpful if what he said could be written down, if we need to interrogate it further, rather than deal with it now.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I quite accept what the noble Baroness has raised. She acknowledged that I gave out a lot of detail in defining what we think is right in terms of who would be a successor, cascading along the process if the successor had died and so on. However, if there is more to say—I hope that there might be—I shall write to the noble Baroness and copy in all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. I thank her for her question.

Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Baroness Drake and Viscount Younger of Leckie

2nd reading
Friday 14th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Viscount Younger of Leckie) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased to add my support to my noble friend Lady Altmann’s Bill. This legislation would bring into workplace pensions more younger people, women and those in part-time work, including workers not already benefiting from an employer pension contribution. My noble friend eloquently set out further detail of the Bill, its benefits and its beneficiaries.

The Government are committed to building on the success of automatic enrolment to date with a stronger, more inclusive savings culture for younger people. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, was right to remind us of some of the historical context. My noble friend’s Bill would expand the automatic enrolment framework, which was one of the most radical reforms to the pensions landscape since Lloyd George enacted the first state pension nearly 120 years ago. This Bill builds on the undoubted success of workplace pensions and sits firmly within the political consensus established by the independent Turner commission, on which the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, served, as has been mentioned, and which set out the road map for these reforms in 2005. I add my name to those who have paid tribute to the noble Baroness in this respect.

I want to move straight on to the subject of small pots, which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I hope that I can help in providing some answers because I agree—he is right to raise this issue—that the growth of deferred small pots is a huge challenge for the workplace pension market. We know that it acts as a burden on providers, reducing the value for money that pension schemes can provide and negatively impacting retirement outcomes for their members.

I assure the noble Lord and the House that the Government are taking decisive action to address this issue. We are consulting now on our ambition to deliver a framework for a default consolidator approach, which will enable a small number of authorised schemes to act as consolidators for deferred small pots in order to provide greater value for money for their members. In this way, we are working to address the current and future stock of deferred small pots. I note the comments made by the noble Lord today in this respect; we would very much welcome his contribution to the consultation if he has not already given his views, as I suspect he may well have done.

I turn to some of the points made by my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We had an interesting, brief debate on the lowering of the age limit, which we reckon is about right at 18. The Bill provides for regulation-making powers to reduce the age for AE, rather than setting a specific number. This has been done to avoid pre-empting the statutory consultation. We do not wish to close off our ability to respond openly and thoughtfully to stakeholder proposals.

The 2017 review found 18 to be the appropriate minimum age for automatic enrolment. The current minimum of 22 has failed to keep pace with changes elsewhere, such as to the national minimum wage. The lower age also aligns with the entitlement to social security benefits, such as universal credit. Moving to 18 is seen as an effective way to embed the habit of workplace pension saving for young people as they start work for the first time. Indeed, the Government’s commitment for young people below the age of 18 in England and Wales to remain in education or receive training and employment through apprenticeships has resulted in a decrease in 16 and 17 year-olds in the labour market. Workers aged 16 and over will still be entitled to opt in to AE and receive an employer contribution if they choose to save into a workplace pension.

I also want to touch on pension tax relief. The Government recognise the different impacts of the two systems of paying pension tax relief on pension contributions for workers earning below the income tax personal allowance. This picks up on some points raised by my noble friend Lady Altmann. We have announced a new system that will make top-up payments to low earners in net pay schemes, many of whom are women—I think that she made this point—to address the net pay relief at source anomaly. The Treasury has confirmed that this will be introduced for contributions from 2024-25 onwards. In 2025-26, we estimate that up to 1.2 million individuals, 75% of whom are women, could benefit from top-ups worth on average around £50 each year. The Office for Budget Responsibility assesses that the cost to the Exchequer could be between £10 million and £15 million per year.

My noble friend Lady Altmann also raised the issue of low earners, as did one or two other Peers. The AE framework has an earnings trigger that is set at a level that aims to bring those individuals for whom it pays to save into pension saving automatically. The Secretary of State must review this trigger each year to help to make sure that it remains appropriate. As my noble friend mentioned, currently the trigger is set at £10,000. However, if an eligible worker earns below this amount, they can still choose to opt in to a workplace pension if they want to save, as mentioned earlier. The Bill is the essential first step to allow the expansion of AE. The Government are clear that these measures are the best route to enabling low and medium earners to save more, with more workers benefiting from the employer contribution to help them to build their retirement savings.

I will now move on to a few general comments about pensions and, indeed, the state pension, which was alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I hope that I am not going too far in terms of his remarks, but hopefully this will set the scene a bit. I reassure the House that we believe that the state pension remains the foundation of the UK pension system. In April 2023, the state pension saw its biggest ever cash increase, rising by 10.1%, so that the full yearly amount of the basic state pension will be over £3,050 higher in cash terms than in 2010.

Workplace pensions sit on top of that foundation, helping to maximise individual retirement saving. This is an approach guided by the work of the independent Pensions Commission, which made clear the importance of reinvigorated private saving to help individuals to achieve their retirement aspirations. The Government continue to support the success of automatic enrolment, which has seen 10.9 million workers enrolled into a workplace pension since 2012, with an additional £33 billion saved in real terms in 2021 compared to 2012.

I move on to a more substantive point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies—I think that he mentioned it twice—which is what we are doing to reduce the gender pensions gap. As he will know, the pensions gap is a complex issue tied to the labour market, the pensions system and demographic differences, but one that the Government take seriously. We remain committed to implementing the 2017 review measures, which will disproportionately benefit lower earners, including people working in multiple jobs, who are predominantly women.

Going back to the basic concept of automatic enrolment, AE came along at a time when the UK was towards the very bottom of the OECD league tables on retirement saving. A radical reversal has taken place in the past decade putting us close to the top, with the UK now having the largest pension market in Europe. I pay tribute to those, some of whom are in the House today, for their efforts to make this happen.

In the private sector, workplace pension participation for eligible employees has increased from 42% in 2012 to 86% in 2021, representing a 44 percentage point increase. As my noble friend Lady Altmann said, it has been especially transformative for women, low-earners and young people. Her Bill would enable the Government to build on that success and deliver the expansion of AE.

There are a couple of other questions I want to answer—actually, about three—particularly from the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, from the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, on timing, which is a very fair question. The Government are committed to making progress in implementing the 2017 review measures, including lowering the age for being automatically enrolled and reducing the lower earnings limit so that pensions contributions are payable from the first pound of earnings, in the mid-2020s. We have always been clear that implementation of these measures and the timing must be done in a way and at a time which is affordable, balancing the needs of savers, employers and taxpayers, with a suitable lead-in time for implementation. I am afraid that that is as far as I can go on that, but as soon as I have any further detail I will certainly let the House know.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Sherlock, are right that we need to look at any opt-out rate with great care in monitoring, and I reassure the House in that respect. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised a very important point about AE enforcement. The regulator has a statutory duty to enforce compliance with employer AE duties. Employers must provide information about AE to each eligible employee, including their right to an employer contribution. If a worker has concerns about whether their employer is complying with the law, they can report their concerns to the regulator in confidence—as I suspect noble Lords will be aware.

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

My point was that the regulator is doing a good job on enforcement, but very young people are quite vulnerable, and I was just saying that it needs a new lens brought to enforcement activity.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Absolutely. Again, I provide reassurance that we are very much alert to the issue and we shall be sure that we monitor it and keep the House updated.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, raised the important subject of carers, and I have a couple of brief answers for him. The Government recognise the valuable role of carers and that they are disproportionately women. Where carers are working, if eligible, they will be automatically enrolled into a workplace pension, or they can opt in. The expansion of AE will see all those participating get an employer contribution from their first pound of earnings, and that will help to improve the incentive to save for those who are in lower-paid or part-time work, including carers.

Finally, to touch on consultation, which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and others, the use of the Bill’s powers would be subject to a statutory consultation requirement and the affirmative procedure in both Houses to gain consensus on the implementation approach and timetable, so that the measures can be introduced in a way that is affordable for all parties, as mentioned earlier. This is a crucial point. While we are all rightly keen to build on the success of AE—and many Peers call for more and faster change, hence the questions on timing—the approach needs fully to take account of the impact of these measures on employers, workers and the Exchequer in a way that makes the changes both beneficial and affordable for all. To clarify, we intend to consult in the autumn with employers, payroll and delivery partners throughout the supply chain to get the implementation approach and timetable right before changes are introduced.

I again thank my noble friend Lady Altmann for taking the Bill through and for helping more people gain the benefits of retirement saving. I judge from the mood in the House that it shares my view of the importance of the Bill and the positive and sensible way in which it would allow for the future expansion of automatic enrolment, which I believe is an ambition we all share.

Pension Protection Fund and Occupational Pension Schemes (Levy Ceiling) (No. 2) Order 2023

Debate between Baroness Drake and Viscount Younger of Leckie

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

I appreciate that there is a lot out there, but there are three elements: the scope for raising the levy, the compensation levels and the resilience of the PPF over time. Clearly, there is a sort of inflection point for revisiting and managing that. It was just about understanding that and getting more transparency around it.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Absolutely. That plays well into what I said in that I will reflect on what I and the noble Baroness have said, and there may well be a letter coming to add to the one that I will send to my noble friend.

I will address a couple more questions before I wind up finally. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked whether the PPF is right to build reserves at a slower pace than it has been doing. It is a fair question but that is, as the noble Baroness will expect me to say, very much a matter for the PPF board.

On whether there will be an update on the levy discussions, I may have alluded to this earlier—it was raised not only by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, but by my noble friend Lady Altmann and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. I will certainly happily make inquiries, and that will be an addition to the letter which is growing bigger by the moment. There may be some other questions that I have not answered, but I will certainly look very closely with my team at Hansard.

To conclude, again I thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies, for providing us with this opportunity to discuss the UK’s flexible and robust regime for funding and protecting defined benefit pensions, which, as was mentioned, is an important subject. This regime has enabled most schemes to weather the severe economic downturns following the crash in 2007-08—the financial crisis, I should better call it—and the Covid pandemic, as well as the prolonged period of historically low interest rates. In fact, the aggregate scheme funding position on a Pension Protection Fund basis improved from 83.4% on 31 March 2012 to 113.1% on 31 March 2022 —an interesting statistic to reflect on. These improvements to scheme funding mean that fewer and fewer members of DB schemes will require the safety net of the PPF. That is of course good news for members, who are increasingly likely to receive their full pension entitlement. This is progress indeed but there is more to do, although of course we cannot eliminate all risk. When employers become insolvent, the PPF continues to stand by as a well-funded and responsibly managed safety net.

Occupational Pension Schemes (Administration, Investment, Charges and Governance) and Pensions Dashboards (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Drake and Viscount Younger of Leckie

Tuesday 28th March 2023 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I hope I can be of some help. I think I should write a letter on this quite detailed question, as it takes us further from the question originally asked by the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey. Part of the answer could be—I will need to follow up with a letter—that we do not want to prescribe our approach too much. As I mentioned earlier, it will be very much up to the trustees and pension funds to decide for themselves. It might not be right to have too much prescription here, but I will go no further than that. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, may know more than me, as one can go only so far with a definition. I will write to clarify further what we mean.

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

Trustees cannot make investment decisions now without taking advice. These regulations may be adding a bit of extra detail, but that principle is already there. The department and regulators can mandate trustees to provide more information, and transparency is a great thing; I do not demur from that. The Minister has identified all the other things that need to be done and discussions that are going on.

However, there is an issue about which there is still not a clear answer. Organisations such as the PLSA, which is a trade body representing pension schemes and their administrators, do not think that this is the correct thing to do—and that is not the only one. I do understand why, in the absence of evidence and the presence of many other significant barriers, the Government have chosen to weaken a fundamental consumer protection in the as-yet-unverified belief that it will be a major driver of increased investment in illiquid assets.

That is the bit I cannot find anywhere. I can find assertions of views but the reasoning is, I am afraid, quite weak. What worries me is that this will start encroaching on what was such a fundamental protection. Most schemes come in way below 0.75%—there is so much headroom—and we know that leverage can come from the scale of the scheme master trusts that are coming. So why are you doing this when you cannot yet have confidence—because you have not tested it —that it will actually benefit the saver?

Pension Schemes: Guidance

Debate between Baroness Drake and Viscount Younger of Leckie

Monday 13th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Well, I do not really agree with the general points my noble friend has made. The main thing is that the regulator has a particularly strong role here, and it plans to publish its findings on what we are doing soon to provide schemes with examples of good practice. The regulator has found so far that most reports were published on time. This is to do with the publishing of reports. Almost all were substantial documents showing trustee engagement. In terms of my noble friend’s point about LDI, he will know that much progress has been made, led largely by the independent Bank of England working closely with the Treasury.

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interest in the register as a trustee. The report raises key questions about fiduciary duty. In summary, we need clearer guidance from the Government on three key issues: the extent to which environmental and social factors form a core component of investors’ fiduciary duties; the fact that pension scheme fiduciary duties are not a substitute for what government should do; and the fact that government desire for more pension fund investment in UK productive investment has to align with pension trustee fiduciary duties. Can the Minister confirm that, when issuing more guidance on the fiduciary issue, they will address these particular three issues where the contours of fiduciary duty need clarity?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

As I have said before, it is the case that more progress needs to be made, and the noble Baroness has much experience in this field. Let us start with climate change, which poses major financial risk to pension schemes and savers’ returns, with almost £2 trillion in assets under management. I reassure her that pension schemes in scope of the DWP’s requirements, as I think she will know, must produce the annual TCFD report, which is based on four key pillars: governance, strategy, risk management, and metrics and targets. That might be five, but I think it is four.