Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps and Other Provisions) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

First, I thank the Minister for his briefing this morning, which I found extremely interesting and useful. I thought at first that I had strayed into a private seminar with the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, and the Minister, but after half an hour other people managed to get in. Having said that, the questions of the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, were very pertinent and well answered by the Minister and his officials. I also watched the debate in the other place this afternoon, so there are obviously a lot of outstanding issues.

I support these regulations with a heavy heart. I accept a lot of the things that the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, said about the impact on our economy. I want to ask, for instance, about compulsory vaccination for care home staff. Does that extend to care staff who go round various houses on the same day? If it does, what steps will the Minister take to ensure that their civil liberties are protected, that they get financial support and that the vacancy rate for care staff, which is already over 100,000, is actually tackled?

One point that came up frequently is the need to get rid of sloganising. We do not want “freedom day” or “terminus day”; we want facts and proportionality, in the way that the Minister is very good at. This sloganising does not help—it builds unrealistic expectations and diverts us from the detail.

Finally, there is an extraordinary thing about this fatal amendment. If I had read this letter from the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister was Keir Starmer and I was then moved to table a fatal amendment, questioning my Prime Minister when he said:

“By being cautious now we have a chance in the next four weeks to save many thousands of lives by vaccinating millions more people”,


it would be a very serious thing to try to kill off that statement. So, what is it about the Prime Minister that the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, does not think is to be trusted? I very much hope that the House will turn this down. It is not just an opportunity for a debate; this is a matter of life and death.

Carers: Support

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Thursday 10th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, we have worked very closely with hospices to fill the funding gap that hit them hard during the pandemic, and I pay tribute to those who worked so hard looking after younger vulnerable people. The pressure on care breaks has been intense during the pandemic.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, 81% of carers are taking on more care since the start of the pandemic and, as the Carers UK report says,

“Most striking is the lack of confidence that carers feel about support in the future.”


Carers UK is calling for a new deal for carers, with an urgent review of breaks provision by the Government, better respite care, an uplift in universal credit and sufficient funds for local authorities to provide support. The Minister has already said he will meet Carers UK, which is very welcome. Will he also be prepared to meet other interested parties to see what can be implemented?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness is undoubtedly right that carers have taken on a hugely bigger burden. More carers have been involved in looking after loved ones and families; those already working have worked longer hours; and the kinds of work they have done has been extended because some local authority provision has not been possible during the lockdown and the pandemic. I recognise that it is taking time to reopen many of those services, but I reassure the noble Baroness that we are working hard, we recognise the issue, and the issue of breaks in particular is one that concerns us. I will be glad to meet anyone she recommends.

Covid-19

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Wednesday 26th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am extremely grateful for my noble friend’s remarks. The inquiry will, as he says, provide an important moment to look at the lessons that we can learn from the response to the pandemic. The Prime Minister has given extremely clear reasons why the timetable is as he described and we should stick to the timetable that he has suggested.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I understand the Minister saying that he is focusing on the vaccines and surge testing. I even understand his reply to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that one cannot have surge testing in 120 areas. However, I want to go back to the Bedford issue. Despite the director of health, the mayor and the local MP spending nearly a fortnight saying that the Indian variant was just as bad in Bedford as it was in Bolton, the surge testing took place days later. What weight is given to the advice from the local directors of health? There seems to be an imbalance here because it is the Government’s decision rather than that of the local directors. Can the Minister assure us that there is not a change in policy on this? He stated:

“We are … looking to see how we can communicate more effectively with local authorities”.


Actually, the local authorities are communicating effectively with the Minister. Has there been a change of emphasis on this?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

Let me assure the noble Baroness that there has absolutely not been a change of policy at all. There are clear channels of communication from DPHs and local authorities to the contain secretariat at NHS Test and Trace, which can mobilise the community testing resources. I am not aware of there being a large glitch in the provision of resources to Bedford but I should be happy to look into it, given that it has been mentioned by two noble Lords. I should be glad to write to her to see whether there is anything that we should be improving specifically for the city of Bedford.

Covid-19: One Year Report

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I support the regret Motion in the name of my noble friend Lady Thornton. In response to the contribution from the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, we do not always agree but, on this occasion, I agree with her that we need to think about the non-Covid impacts on health and the economic deprivation that has taken place. If we had had improved efficiency and a decent strategy from the Government, they would have helped to put the balance right. I welcome the full inquiry that she is looking forward to, in due course, and hope that she joins us in calling for it.

I am grateful to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its work on these matters and for drawing them to the attention of the House. Therefore, I ask the Government for more detail on the process by which this legislation will be amended to bring subsequent steps into effect. Secondly, will local hot spots of infection delay the lifting of national restrictions? Thirdly, how frequently will changes between steps be made?

As is mentioned in the Motion, the scientific advisory group said on 21 January that

“targeted travel measures that apply only to countries that have detected specific variants of concern (and their neighbours) are unlikely to be completely successful in stopping new introductions of these variants into the UK”

The travel measures took effect on 15 February, 25 days after the statement by SAGE and with no parliamentary scrutiny. Around 19 out of 20 people entering the UK will not be required to quarantine in a hotel, but in their homes, and only three of every 100 people are checked to ensure that they are complying while in their home quarantine. How can these regulations be described as safety measures? We need a comprehensive policy on hotel quarantines to ensure compliance with regulations, not just bombastic speeches.

I am also curious to hear that, if you have a second home in Europe, you can travel, but not if you are simply going on holiday to a property that you do not own. Does that mean that ownership of a foreign property represents a new form of vaccine and, if so, does it need two doses?

Finally, the Secretary of State for Health has announced the setting up of a new organisation next month. The UK health security agency, led by Jenny Harries, is welcome. Matt Hancock said it would have

“the very best team possible from around the world.”

He went on to say that the

“UKHSA must plan, it must prevent and it must respond. UKHSA must be ready.”

I am deafened by the sound of slamming stable doors. These are the very “must”s that the Government should have carried out in this last, tragic year.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Thursday 4th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am entirely sympathetic to the question posed by the right reverend Prelate. I cannot think of anything nicer than spending Easter at Salisbury Cathedral listening to the beautiful singing of the choir there. We will be led, however, by the public health practicalities on that. It has been one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this pandemic that those who seek sanctuary through worship have not been able to join the rest of their community, but the practicalities of the spread of the virus are unavoidable, so we will be led by public health advice in this matter. I do not have a date for his roadmap, I fear, but his considerations are very much understood in the department.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his continuing patience on this subject, and I am sure he did not mean to sidestep the two questions from my noble friend Lady Thornton. One was about the cliff edge for the social care sector, where the special funding is due to come to an end in March, and the apparent delay before we solve our care sector problem until 2022. The second was about there being no mention of NHS funding in the Budget, despite the fact that the roadmap recognises that annual vaccination programmes and continued testing and tracing are likely to be required. Does he have anything to say about those two areas of social care and NHS funding?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we would not ordinarily expect a big announcement on NHS funding at a Budget such as this, and the truth is that we are not through the woods yet. It is impossible to predict what funds the NHS will need this year or next until we are through this pandemic, and while we are spending time today taking pleasure in celebrating the vaccine, the honest truth is that danger is still around the corner and we do not yet know that we are truly through this. When we are able to say that for sure, it will be possible to take a moment to decide on NHS funding. In the meantime, we remain committed to our manifesto pledges on hospital building and on recruitment, and on both those matters, we have made an enormous amount of progress. The Prime Minister has been crystal clear about his commitment to social care funding reform, and he stands by that commitment.

Covid-19: Vaccines

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Monday 1st February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we have tens of thousands—38,000, I think—currently employed by the NHS delivering the vaccine: a remarkable army of people. We have had further offers from hundreds of thousands of people—300,000, I believe—to support the vaccination effort. Those offers are being processed by voluntary groups; I pay particular tribute to the St John Ambulance, which runs an extremely good training programme and has enabled tens of thousands of people to join the vaccination effort. We continue to engage with those offering to help to ensure that they get the training and opportunities to help wherever they can.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

How can the Government ensure that the second dose of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine is delivered to patients within 12 weeks? I do not think the Minister answered that part of my noble friend Lady Thornton’s Question. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that this is done, and are there any circumstances in which vaccines would be mixed at the second dose?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

When you go to have your vaccine, as several noble Lords have done, you are given a card like the one I am holding, on the back of which the date of your second dose is printed. That is how we ensure that people know where and when to go for their second dose. We are working extremely hard to ensure that there are supplies of the second dose, and I am confident that we have the arrangements in place. It is not our policy to give anyone a second dose of an alternative vaccine to their first dose.

Vaccine Rollout

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Monday 25th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is entirely right to highlight prisons, and I share her deep concern in this area. I pay tribute to the Prison Service for keeping Covid out of prisons for nearly a year. It has done an amazing job, and we should all be very pleased with the incredible protocols that have been put in place to save our prisons. However, she is entirely right that we have a problem on our hands. It is a major priority for the Prison Service, which is bringing in testing protocols and, if necessary, will look at other measures to ensure that prisoners and those who work in prisons are safe.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

I want to follow up on the answer that the Minister gave to my noble friend Lady Thornton. I was quite shocked by his reply, because I am quite sure that most people working in the National Health Service who do not have a number are probably the lowest paid, from black and ethnic-minority communities, or temporary staff—the very people who are just as much on the front line as doctors and nurses. I do not think that being assured that there will be a protocol, or a workaround, is adequate. Can the Minister say what protocol there will be, what priority it will have, and how soon all of this will be communicated to the people who are affected?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that it is communicated on the front line immediately. I did not have a valid NHS number until a week ago: it took me a couple of days to get one, but it was provided extremely promptly. I am hopeful that anyone who is lacking an NHS number can get one extremely quickly when they apply.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for what I think was his broad point. I did not quite understand the exact scenario in the restaurant that he described, but I think that he was alluding to the difficult but important decision that every family has to make. He is entirely right: we do not all have to go mad over Christmas and see as many people as we can. Some people will make the quite sensible decision to show restraint and to share the holiday with those they love but not necessarily to travel or see a very large number of people. I salute those people and encourage that kind of attitude.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, perhaps I may come back to of my noble friend Lady Thornton’s question on test and trace. The noble Lord accepted that it was extremely challenging—those were his words—and said that we should accept that there had been a huge scaling up, but we were told that a world-class test and trace system would solve things, and it is far from that. The inconsistencies in results are causing a high degree of scepticism. Can he outline further how the Government will meet that extreme challenge?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure that I accept the premise of the question. The scepticism that the noble Baroness describes has not stopped millions of people stepping forward to have tests. Our experience is that those who have direct experience of test and trace—whether they are people who use the app, people who turn up for testing, people who go to hospital and have tests through the NHS or people who are traced—speak of the good service and experience that they have. It is undoubtedly true that test and trace takes a hammering in the press, and its reputation has been hard hit by sceptics who talk down its performance, but, generally speaking, those who actually experience it speak highly of the service.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) (Medium) (England) Regulations 2020

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his clear explanation of this statutory instrument, which is the lowest level including the rule of six and the 10 pm curfew for bars and clubs. As I said earlier, as a former licensee, I understand the business reasons for opening, if only for a more limited period, but common sense says that it could be the worst of all worlds. This statutory instrument shows the stark divide between north and south on any Covid map. I appreciate the difficult job the Government have to do. I have been critical of the Government’s poor relationship with local government leaders. The Local Government Association’s reaction to the three-tier proposal has been fairly positive—I should declare, incidentally, that I am not a vice-president of the Local Government Association. It has said that the new system will make it easier to follow the rules. It also urges that the system allow local councillors and public health experts to respond to specific causes of spikes in infections in their area. It referred to the additional pressure on already overstretched council budgets. What assurances can the Minister give that local expertise will be used and that sufficient funding will be available for councils to carry out their vital tasks?

Reference has been made throughout today’s debates to the publication of the SAGE minutes of 20 September, which advised the Government to ban all contact within the home by members of other households, to close all bars, restaurants and other venues, and that all university and college teaching be online unless face-to-face teaching is absolutely necessary. The contrast between the advice of SAGE and the Government’s delayed reaction—22 days later—could not be greater. We have “very high”, “high” and “medium”. I am assuming the SAGE advice would be “sky high”. Those who say that a total lockdown would be a disaster miss the point. It is all disastrous. It is a question of disaster management and clear strategy.

Turning to the issue of probity, how can the Minister prove that the public money being spent on test and trace, IT systems, testing the provision of PPE and testing laboratories fulfils all the requirements of public procurement? In his answer, he referred to the huge amount of work being done on auditing, checking and supervising contracts. He said that the Cabinet Office provided a huge amount of analysis and challenge in checking against delivery of the products and services involved, yet we still get reports of companies being given contracts without proper tendering processes. What information can the Minister give us on the actual results of those Cabinet Office checks on the delivery of those products and services? It ought to be public knowledge.

I said in the past that I was uncomfortable dealing with retrospective and sometimes contradictory SIs—but, like most of us, I have gone along with it because it is important to try to work together. Now Labour’s previous support has been thrown in its face by the Prime Minister, who is saying that we are the ones doing the U-turns. I do not detect that kind of combative aggressiveness in the Minister, but I would appreciate his acknowledgement that Labour has up to today been as strong a supporter as he could ask for in supporting these statutory instruments.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2020

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, we are caught between the Scylla and Charybdis of the so-called libertarians in the Conservative Party and the well-meaning, but not very competent, government action to deal with the pandemic. The regret Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, is really a fundamental challenge to the Government’s strategy and should not be supported. However, those of us who want the Government to succeed in saving more lives need more clarity and consistency and, in particular, actual delivery of an effective test and trace system, with care homes and health staff given priority for testing and receiving results in good time.

It is very easy to mock with regard to funerals and weddings and to give examples of inconsistency. What is not easy is delivering effective policies that we all want to unite behind. Please could the Government do better?