European Union: Negotiations (European Union Committee Report)

Baroness Donaghy Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab)]

My Lords, I made very few contributions during the Brexit debates but, now that we have reached the very beginning of the negotiating stage, I am interested in the stance taken by both sides. At one stage in my career, negotiations were my bread and butter. My comments are intended to be practical rather than principled. As the great Tommy Cooper said, “It’s not the principle, it’s the cash”.

First, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for setting out the questions that the Government should try to clarify, if not immediately then as the negotiations proceed. The document from the EU Select Committee was produced in double-quick time by its staff, and I pay tribute to them for their hard work and to the Select Committee, which gave it careful scrutiny. In case the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, accuses me of self-congratulation, I confess that I am a member of that committee. The image produced by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull—that the negotiating stances are the equivalent of the haka—is quite disturbing. I shall be studying any changes of clothing by the noble Lord, Lord True, as the negotiations proceed.

Secondly, I thank my noble friend Lady Hayter for emphasising the scrutiny role of our Parliament and the need to keep it fully informed. I recognise that this Government can force their view through Parliament, within certain limits, and that the real deadline of 31 December 2020 will concentrate minds. I also recognise that ECJ involvement over time is regarded as a red line by the Government, but there is nothing to stop a deal that recognises that reference to the ECJ, and that is how the EU 27 will proceed—by the way, if they are wise enough, they will try to limits its scope in the future—and also recognises an infrastructure that the UK will use in the future. If the quality of that infrastructure is satisfactory to the EU, a deal is possible.

I also recognise that the language of state aid versus subsidy and the definition of “level playing field” have changed. This is not something to go to the wall about if the Government are sincere when they say that they will not lower standards in consumer rights, workers’ rights and environmental protections. I winced a bit—but I am trying hard not to fight old battles—when the noble Lord, Lord True, read out the Statement on 27 February by the right honourable Michael Gove, that:

“The United Kingdom has a proud record when it comes to environmental enhancement, workers’ rights and social protection.”—[Official Report, Commons, 27/2/20; col. 468.]


I could not help remembering that, before we joined what I think was called the EC, our beaches were so filthy that we were known as the “dirty man of Europe”, and that we waited 10 whole years in the late 1980s and 1990s for a single improvement in workers’ rights. But let us celebrate late conversions.

The noble Lord, Lord True, also said that we were

“seeking … an agreement based on full respect and friendly co-operation, and centred on free trade.”—[Official Report, 27/2/20; col. 286.]

I cannot argue with that or that fisheries, internal security and aviation will be dealt with separately, so I will not deal with them in this debate. The success of any negotiation will be the acceptance by the parties of the deal, not necessarily its quality. It will have to be something that both sides can live with. It will not be as good as the deal that the UK had before 31 January but will have to be good enough.

I do think—this is where I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton—that proximity is important. All the charts that we have seen in my EU Sub-committee B show the enormous weighting of existing trade with the 27 and the very much smaller weighting the further away that a country is from the UK. However, let us just say for the sake of argument that the noble Lord is right and that proximity is not important. How then can it be explained that Germany’s trade with China has knocked the UK’s into a cocked hat? Does it have better-quality politicians or better-quality goods? Do the Germans try harder? Germany’s success was done within what some call the strict and debilitating bureaucratic confines of EU membership. How does the noble Lord explain that?

I return to the negotiations. I understand that some of them will be conducted by videoconferencing because of the coronavirus pandemic. I can only hope that the technical quality is adequate, and certainly a lot better than in this Parliament building. There is something to be said, as my experience in ACAS shows, for keeping the parties in separate rooms; it may be that sooner or later a deal may be more productively done in that way. When it is done, though, there has to be some clarity on precisely what “standards”, “ongoing alignment” and “subsidy” mean and, as has been well covered by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, and others, what the Northern Ireland protocol really amounts to, because that is one of the things that cannot be squared.

I will make three more brief points. First, the devolved Administrations may well have been kept informed, but they have certainly not been consulted. “Consult” does not mean “veto” in anybody’s language; it means being consulted. This has led to a fear that the devolved competences will not be respected in the outcome of the negotiations. Will the Minister give some assurance to the devolved Administrations on the matter of competences?

Secondly, the Prime Minister’s speech of 3 February 2020 suggests that the UK will maintain a subsidy control system after the end of the transition period, albeit not necessarily based on EU state-aid rules, which are likely to change in any case as a result of its recently published industrial policy. The UK has a consistent record of compliance on state aid—or “subsidy”, as the UK Government now call it. Successive Governments were so strict that they did not even use the flexibility in the system to increase state aid that was allowed. It is acknowledged in the EU that UK Governments led the way in trying to ensure discipline in this area, but it is a fact that France, Germany and Italy were always looking to take advantage of the flexibilities. If we are so good, and if we led the way, why not take the lead again? Why not make a clear declaration about what the UK’s subsidy infrastructure will look like on 1 January 2021? Is the Minister able to assist the House in this matter? It is one area where we could declare our independence by setting out the structure that we believe will work.

Finally, Sub-committee B on internal markets, which I have the privilege to chair until Easter, is conducting a brief inquiry into state aid and level playing field definitions and possible outcomes. It is hoping to finalise its report by 26 March, before it disappears into the sunset. I very much hope that the work done by my committee will prove helpful to the general debate.