Strait of Hormuz
Debate between Baroness Deech and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It was fantastic to see President Zelensky welcomed so warmly here in London in a cross-party way, and I pay tribute to the noble Baroness and her colleagues for their steadfast support for Ukraine, both in office and since. She is right to remind us of the tremendous innovation that has come about as a result of the dreadful war in Ukraine. There have been some remarkable developments. I do not know how directly applicable they would be to the current situation, but I am sure that my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence will be looking very closely at this.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, when will the Minister and her Government end this air of detachment in relation to Iran? Some of us have just come from a presentation of a most comprehensive report by the historian, the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, setting out the horrors of October 7. Hamas carried that out; Iran funded, and still funds, Hamas, which has decided that when it can, it will do the same massacre again. It involved British citizens, who have complained that the Government did nothing to help them at all, at the time or after. This is a case of anticipatory self-defence. We have a moral duty to understand what is going on in Iran and the threat it poses to this country.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I do not accept the premise that the noble Baroness began with, which was about detachment. The positions that we have taken are ones in which we feel there is consistency with international law. Before you involve yourself in a conflict of this nature, history—and history from not even that long ago—teaches us that you must have a clear plan and support your allies and partners. That is how we will proceed. I agree with her on the abhorrent nature of the Iranian regime and its activities in the region that have cost the lives of many people we care about deeply, and its activities on the streets of the United Kingdom.
Sudan: Protection of Civilians
Debate between Baroness Deech and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That is a very good question. Information is very difficult to obtain. There are few, if any, journalists in Sudan now, and the information that we do get is difficult to verify. The noble Lord is absolutely right to raise that. What we do have is the first-hand accounts of those who have managed to escape, and their testimonies are harrowing to hear. As the truth emerges, I think the world will be horrified at what it is. We are hearing reports already, which we have confidence in, of what has happened in El Fasher, particularly at the hospital, and these are by far the most disturbing accounts that I have ever had to consider.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, it is very welcome that we are discussing Sudan in this Chamber. However, I have to say, following the reference to Tom Fletcher, that he is hardly a reliable source. He is the UN official who said that 14,000 babies were going to die of famine in Gaza within days, and he had to retract that. One cannot help but contrast the constructive and calm atmosphere to genocide, as I suppose it is, in Sudan with the hysteria on the streets when it comes to Gaza and Israel. There are no marching students, there are no protests in universities, and there is no hot-tempered exchange in either Chamber. We need to be even-handed. The casualties and dispossessed people in Sudan greatly outnumber those of Gaza.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am slightly surprised to hear the noble Baroness pronounce genocide, when she knows, and has supported our position, that we do not do that. That is for a competent court to do. Tom Fletcher is an outstanding leader of OCHA. He clarified what he said, as he needed to, on the occasion that she alludes to. He did the right thing, and I think that speaks well of him. The way that he is leading his organisation and drawing attention to what is happening in Sudan, and putting the resources at his disposal in the right place, speak very highly of him. He has our complete support.
Gaza and Hamas
Debate between Baroness Deech and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We do have to direct our attention to that and to many other elements. We have a senior military presence within the Civil-Military Coordination Center, and we are supporting it practically, because we will do whatever we can alongside our partners to try to make sure that this ceasefire holds and that we can move on to the next phase.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that Hamas is looting humanitarian aid and executing its enemies in the streets of Gaza? These are both contrary to international humanitarian law. The Government have recognised the state of Palestine, which was welcomed by Hamas and has deprived them of any lever to force Hamas to behave properly. From what the Minister has said in the last few minutes, there still does not seem to be a government, fixed boundaries or any elements of a functioning state. How, therefore, can Britain exercise any influence at all?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Baroness is right: Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and it should have no part in the future running of Gaza. That is why it is so important that we work alongside the Palestinian Authority and alongside the structures being put in place as part of the 20-point plan to try to make sure that the peace we have, such as it is, can be sustained.
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe
Debate between Baroness Deech and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, the Council of Europe remains one of the fora which is shared by Britain and Poland. Will the Minister please suggest to our delegation that the council puts on its agenda Poland’s breach for 75 years of the need to restore property that was stolen from Jewish and indeed non-Jewish victims in the Second World War? If they will not pay compensation, will they at least display a commemorative plaque?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am sure that the leader of our delegation, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, was listening closely to what the noble Baroness said. To remind noble Lords, the Council of Europe came out of the Second World War. The founding of the institution was led by Churchill and Bevin. We are very proud to be members of it, and the priority that it places on the rule of law and securing human rights is something that we can justifiably be proud of.
Israel: Arms Sales
Debate between Baroness Deech and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
This decision came at the conclusion of a process which the Foreign Secretary initiated upon his appointment, where a review was commenced. The earliest opportunity to make both Houses aware of the conclusion of that review was on the first day we returned, earlier this week, and that is the reason for the timing of the announcement.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, yesterday the House debated a new Holocaust learning centre in Westminster and much was made of the vacuous statement “never again”. Today we hear of support for arms for Ukraine. We supply them to Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other countries that kill their opponents. Why do the Government undermine protection for a state that needs them for self-defence to combat murderous terrorists whose avowed aim is to kill Jews? Has she read the American book? Everyone loves dead Jews; the living, not so much.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, the UK remains and will always be committed to supporting Israel’s security and wider regional stability. The Foreign Secretary reaffirmed this with his Israeli counterparts on a recent visit to Tel Aviv on 19 August with the French Foreign Minister, and our position has not changed in this respect. We continue to support Israel’s right to defend itself and to take action against terrorism, provided it does so in accordance with international law.