Deregulation Bill

Baroness Deech Excerpts

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Inglewood (Con)]

I rise to join the chorus in support of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe. This is part of a much wider question, which, as several speakers have said, will be determined over the next few weeks, months and years. It should remain an integral part of that process and not be sliced off like a piece of salami. The only substantive objection against the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, in the debate this afternoon has come from the noble Baroness, Lady Corston. I have every sympathy for the predicament that she describes, although I have no knowledge of the facts to which she referred. It seems to me that what she was describing is not a consequence of criminalisation but a consequence of what happened in the courts and the actions of the relevant social services. It is important to decouple the two. I think it would be very foolish not to support the noble Baroness, Lady Howe.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former governor of the BBC. I recall charter renewal as a long, drawn-out process involving all sorts of different elements, and it would be wrong to pick this one out for fundamental change before the entire charter is reviewed. The other issue is that the licence fee is clearly due for the most fundamental reanalysis because both those who can afford it and those who cannot are very likely to be looking at BBC output on their iPads or computers. That is something that the licence fee arrangements have yet to grapple with. It is an enormous question that deserves careful attention—but in the holistic review of the entire charter. Therefore, I, too, support this very sensible amendment.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank all speakers for contributing to this debate and make special mention of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, for all her campaigns, but particularly on this issue, which she has pursued with considerable vigour over the past few months. I also thank the noble BBC pensioner, the noble Lord, Lord Grade, for his support. It might be of interest to the House that he has had to change long-standing family arrangements to be here today, and we are grateful to him for that. The fourth spear carrier, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has joined the charge and made a valuable contribution.

We have heard little vigorous debate about this issue because just about everybody is in favour, with the exception of the impassioned speech from my noble friend Lady Corston. Like other noble Lords, I share her concerns and regret that we did not tackle this issue earlier, because it is clearly causing considerable dismay.

When issues of public policy need to be resolved, there is no better place to do it than in your Lordships’ House, and this debate has lived up to its highest reputation. I should like to make three points.

First, this is an important matter. The BBC is the gold standard of our broadcasting system, which is one of the best in the world. We should never forget that. We take for granted the information, education and culture that the BBC produces hour after hour, day after day, and never really question how it has adapted to and survived so many changes over the decades, and how the system has evolved to make sure that that happens.

At a time when the very nature of the British state is under question, we should be very careful about tinkering with the long-established procedures under which it operates. I do not need to remind your Lordships’ House that, in survey after survey, the BBC ranks as one of the most important signifiers of the United Kingdom in all four countries. Recent experience in Scotland demonstrates what happens if that becomes an issue of debate in a referendum.

Over time, we have established appropriate procedures for exercising effective but arm’s-length oversight of the BBC, involving, as we have heard, periodic reviews of the charter and licence fee and the regular fixing of budgets. Previous charter reviews have taken two or three years of consultation and debate—although I understand that the timescale for the 2010 licence fee settlement was perhaps weeks, if not days. However, that does not depart from my general point.

Most people in the UK feel that there would have to be a very pressing reason for the Government of the day to depart from long-established procedures for settling the governance and funding of the BBC. I think it would be very unwise for any political party to play around with the BBC for short-term political advantage.

Secondly, I turn to the review. We support the review being undertaken by David Perry QC. We do not know what the review will recommend on the important question of decriminalising penalties. As I said, my noble friend Lady Corston made some very good points that need to be considered. Having said that, this is complicated and, as has been said, is as much to do with the courts and social services as how the BBC operates. This issue has not passed the test of being a pressing reason to depart from normal governance procedures. We think that it is right to wait for the outcome of the review before any decisions are taken. We must consider whether there is any reason for intervening in advance of the licence fee settlement, and we do not think the case has been made. In all the reasons that have been given today, I have not heard one to suggest that that needs to be departed from.

Thirdly, we need to probe deeply into what the Government are saying. As the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, and my noble friend Lord Watson said, when the 2010 licence fee settlement was announced, the letters that went out at the time said that the settlement would,

“provide a full financial settlement to the end of the year 2016/17”—

the end of the year 2016-17—

“with no new financial requirements or fresh obligations of any kind being placed on the BBC and/or license fee revenues in this period”.

I call on the Government today to honour that commitment on certainty and security, which they can do in part by accepting this amendment.

As my noble friend Lord Rooker said, we need to recall that this clause was not in the Bill when it was first introduced to Parliament, and therefore not subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. It came late in the process, when the Government rather unexpectedly accepted a Back-Bench amendment from their own side in the other place. It has never been properly considered or scrutinised; the only discussion has been in Committee in this House. In that Committee, the Minister said:

“The findings of the review … should be considered in the context of the charter review”,

a statement to which we could not object. However, he went on to say:

“It will be for the Government of the day to take forward any further actions as they see fit”.

Further, he said that the argument in favour of that action was that if the review were to find,

“an issue with the current regime, it can be of benefit to no one to delay the review or to prevent its findings informing any required change to the existing system”.—[Official Report, 11/11/14; col. GC 31.]

This is specious, and sophistry. If the review was to recommend a change in process, there could, as we have heard, be a gap of some £200 million a year for the BBC in the last year of an already very punishing settlement. As the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, suggested, the Government are trying to have it both ways. They are trying to persuade us that they are indeed with the angels on the charter review, requiring it to be a full and proper process, but at the same time wishing to reserve their position in case there is an opportunity for them to cut funding to the BBC in 2016-17. This is wrong.

I put it to the Minister that by resisting this simple and principled amendment today, he will be fuelling a sense that this Government are doing what they can, when they can, to weaken the BBC. As the noble Lords, Lord Grade and Lord Fowler, warned, it opens the door for darker forces in favour of a different funding model for the BBC. It is not just a simple reform of the penal system. The reaction to this issue today, from right across your Lordships’ House, which I aver is echoed across the country, shows that it would be completely wrong for the Government to introduce a significant change in funding for the BBC before the start of the next licence fee period on 1 April 2017. If the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, wishes to test the opinion of the House, we will support her.