Isles of Scilly: Helicopter Services

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord is correct. However, we must also understand that the problems of transport services to the Isles of Scilly make for increased costs for the people living on the islands, so we need a solution that is not too expensive but which meets the needs of the people on the islands.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I was pleased to hear that the Minister has read the comparative study produced by the Council of the Isles of Scilly, which demonstrates very clearly—and factually—just how poorly the Isles of Scilly compare with the islands of Scotland. The Minister has just said that they are different. They are different because we recognise in Scotland that these services are not commercially viable and therefore the Government pay, but the Isles of Scilly is a commercial arrangement. Will the Minister consider changing the designation for the Isles of Scilly to give them the same status as that of the islands of Scotland?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we could make a public service obligation if the market failed. The market has not yet failed. In addition, there would have to be a competitive bidding process. We do not want to interfere at this point because we want to see whether there will be a commercial solution to the problem.

Transport: Isles of Scilly Ferry Link

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 25th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the statement of commercial viability is a thin veneer that masks the real poverty levels in the Scilly Isles? As my noble friend said, Cornwall has one of the lowest GDPs in the country. The fact that the ferry runs for seven months of the year is due to the tourist trade. However, behind that is the local community, which lives in poverty and depends on the mainland for its economy and health services. Will the Minister please review the statement that he has just made to the House?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I cannot agree to review the statement that I made to the House because it is considered government policy. I accept that there are difficulties in the Isles of Scilly, particularly the dependence on the tourist trade.

Aviation: UK Civil Aviation

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lady Gibson for initiating this important debate at this time, particularly in view of the state of our economy. I also declare that I am a board member of NATS air traffic control, although obviously I am not speaking for it today.

We talk about aviation as though it is something that belongs to the industry, but actually our aviation policy is for our economy. It is the conduit through which we have been able to carry our exports. We are an island—nothing will change that—so we need aviation. We are a trading nation as well; over one-third of our exports by value go by aviation. That helps our economy.

Heathrow has been mentioned a number of times today. It is our pre-eminent airport, and until recently it was regarded as number one in the world. Other nations have caught up with us, though, and a number have overtaken us. Schiphol now proudly presents itself as London’s fifth airport, with the runways that it has. Heathrow’s Terminal 5 was first talked about 25 years before it opened. What happens in France, Germany and Amsterdam and across Europe? Within five years they conceive of an idea and they build it.

There is no doubt that our economy needs our aviation, especially environmentally friendly aviation. I would go so far as to suggest that the airlines have gone a long way to try to meet that; indeed, British airlines led the discussions in Europe on emissions trading, which has been a substantial help.

It is important that we recognise where we are. The Government’s announcement about consulting on the proposed new airport in the Thames Estuary and on aviation is an important measure, and I welcome it for considering our long-term policy. However, with Heathrow working at in excess of 90 per cent of its capacity, I suggest that we cannot sit back and wait for the outcome of that commission’s work. When we get the consultation document in March, will it contain what the Government propose regarding the protection of our economy, our jobs and our exports for the short term? We need capacity expansion in the UK in the short and medium term, and we cannot wait another 20-odd years to get a long-term policy in place. I ask the Minister that direct question.

The third runway at Heathrow has been mentioned and it will not go away. We saw in excess of 30 Conservative MPs last week in another place sign a paper complaining about their Government’s policy. I join them in complaining about my own party’s policy; we, too, pulled away from a long-standing agreement that the third runway at Heathrow would be seriously considered. However, that would not provide all the capacity that we need. We have heard about Stansted, but what about Gatwick and Luton? I do not think that there would be opposition in Luton to expansion there.

We need a government policy that will answer these issues, not for the airline or airport industries but for our economy and our jobs. Two weeks ago the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in China. He wants us to do business with that country. In 2010, 3 million Chinese visited Europe. Do you know how many came to the UK? Four per cent. Therein we have the problem. Europe has direct flights from 22 cities to emerging markets; the UK has none. If we do not grasp this problem and do so quickly, we will see our economy go further into the mire. Aviation could certainly be a way of helping to pull us out of it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

Definitely not, my Lords. The noble Lords knows perfectly well that that is in the coalition agreement and will stay.

The noble Lord, Lord Monks, asked me what more can be done to support industry and its people. The Government recognise the value that the aviation industry brings through supporting a network of highly skilled workers that adds value to the economy. The sector is at the forefront of technological progress, delivering R&D projects and large-scale investments that drive industry and the economy forwards. It is important that the trade union sector fully engages in the consultation process. The noble Lord also touched on the important issue of pilot fatigue. On the matter of flight-time limitations, we will support the proposed requirements only if the Civil Aviation Authority determines that they provide an appropriate level of protection against crew fatigue.

The noble Lord, Lord Soley, touched on the 76,000 employees at Heathrow, plus those in related service industries. We have to take their position into consideration as well. The noble Lord also talked about biofuels. The Government are clear that sustainable biofuels have a role to play in reducing CO₂ emissions from transport, particularly in sectors such as aviation where there are limited alternatives to fossil fuels. In recent years, the aviation industry has conducted research and carried out flight tests to help provide information on different fuels. This work has demonstrated that biofuels for aviation are technically feasible. However, there are currently a range of barriers to introducing biofuels, including sustainability, scalability of the feed stocks and commercial viability. The Government will continue to work with European partners, the wider international community and industry to explore how to bring about a significant increase in the use of biofuels in aviation. Advanced biofuels, such as those derived from algae, when commercialised, could offer particular advantages, such as reduced land use impact.

On UK connectivity with China, the Government recognise the importance of developing and maintaining good links between the UK and emerging economies. That is why this March we are calling for evidence on options for maintaining the UK's hub status. Heathrow currently has fewer scheduled flights to mainland China than Paris or Frankfurt, but more than Amsterdam. However, if flights from Heathrow to Hong Kong are included, there are more flights from Heathrow to China than from any other EU hub. Hong Kong serves around 45 destinations on the Chinese mainland.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised the issue of connectivity with the regions, particularly Northern Ireland. The Government recognise the vital contribution that air connections make to regional economies and acknowledge Northern Ireland's concerns about the air service between Northern Ireland and Heathrow should BMI be sold to British Airways. However, airlines operate in a competitive commercial environment, and it is for individual airlines to determine the routes that they operate. The options for supporting regional air services to London are limited. Member states can impose public service obligations to protect air services to remote airports, which could permit slots to be ring-fenced. However, they can be imposed only between specific cities, not specific airports, a difficulty identified by the noble Lord, Lord Empey. We have written to the EU Commission on that point, but there is no other mechanism for the Government to intervene in the allocation of slots at UK airports. The noble Lord introduced the Airports (Amendment) Bill, which would provide for the protection of air services between Heathrow and the UK regions. The Government are considering in detail the measures included in the Bill.

The noble Lord, Lord Lea, got quite excited about a number of points. Although we are committed to not authorising additional runways at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, we are looking at our aviation policy framework with an open mind. The aviation industry is vital to our country. Our next step is to publish the draft aviation strategy and call in March for evidence on hub connectivity. With that strategy, we want to move away from the polarised opinions that have dominated discussion in the past and develop a broader consensus for change.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I will detain the Minister for only a short time. Can he answer my question? Will the consultation document contain the Government's proposals for dealing with the short and medium-term issues on capacity?

Postal Services Bill

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Wednesday 6th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, Amendment 24PB, which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, would insert a new clause related to the indebtedness of a potential universal service provider. In following the Bill’s progress, it has become clear to me that we have a willing seller. However, the financial model has not been revealed to us. We do not know whether it will be an IPO or some other type of financial structure. We also do not know whether there is a willing buyer; we will not know that for some time yet. We do know that it will be a regulated business, which is right. I think that many Members on this side of the Committee would identify entirely with the criticisms of Postcomm. Some of us believe that it has been positively damaging for Royal Mail services over many years and that it is completely non-commercial in its outlook.

This amendment has been drafted against a background of not knowing what the structure might be. In any sale, however, whatever the structure might be, there is a real danger that the acquirer of Royal Mail might be burdened with enormous debt. We have to consider that possibility very seriously because an overburdening of debt will threaten the viability of the new organisation, certainly in the longer term and possibly also in the shorter term. This is not a new phenomenon but is often encountered in any kind of sale or takeover. Two recent and obvious examples in the private sector come to mind—the Kraft takeover of Cadbury and the Boots takeover some time earlier.

In this case we are looking at a business that will be regulated, and there are some direct parallels. For instance, in moving to purchase BAA, Ferrovial was warned—perhaps that is too strong a word—by the Civil Aviation Authority, the aviation industry regulator, about the high level of indebtedness it would take on to implement the takeover. We all know the result. At that time, when considering its review, the CAA indicated that it might take that issue into account in reaching its decisions, which included price increases.

I should declare an interest as a member of the board of National Air Traffic Services. After its recent review of NATS, the CAA imposed on NATS a maximum debt level that would protect it from over ladening itself, a decision which was welcomed by many although not welcomed by some. It is protection for a company which is investing £150 million a year in its infrastructure and which will continue to need to do so.

Although the amendment does not require Ofcom to impose a maximum debt level, Ofcom would have to publish guidelines on how the new USP’s indebtedness and valuation of assets will be calculated. As the regulator of a regulated company, Ofcom would then have to monitor the situation. If it judges that action has to be taken, this amendment will permit it to do so. It will also enable Ofcom, in publishing the regulations, to limit the debt burden that can be applied. In other words, it is a protective clause for a company that is currently wholly publicly owned but that, under the Government’s current policy, probably will not be in future.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

24PB: After Clause 34, insert the following new Clause—
“Indebtedness of potential USP
(1) OFCOM, in designating a postal operator as a universal service provider must take into account the financial indebtedness as a proportion of the value of the company of any potential USP, and may limit this indebtedness to such a percentage as OFCOM may from time to time determine.
(2) For the purpose of this section—
(a) “financial indebtedness” means, at any time, the aggregate outstanding principal, capital or nominal amount of any indebtedness of the company calculated in accordance with guidelines published by OFCOM, and(b) “value of the company” means the value of the company’s assets calculated in accordance with guidelines published by OFCOM and taking into account the timing of material transactions affecting that value.”

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I was encouraged, and I hope rightly so, by the Minister’s response that this matter would be considered between now and Report. Will that consideration include ensuring that we are not faced with Ofcom regulating after the sale, and that we have cover for the sale itself? If I had that assurance, I would be delighted to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord De Mauley]

I am sorry. May I ask the noble Baroness to repeat that? I was having words in my right ear.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I noticed that the noble Lord was somewhat distracted. My concern on this amendment is that if, on looking at the indebtedness of a potential USP, the Government come forward with a wholly acceptable measure, they do not do so after the boat has sailed—in other words, not after the sale. That is because the debt level which may or may not be raised by whatever model the Government decide on for the sale could still burden the company, although there would be provision for the future. Will the Minister please take that into account when he considers the matter before Report?

[Lord De Mauley]

Of course, my Lords.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I thank the Minister very much for that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 24PB withdrawn.