Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment but I do not think I can say a lot more than has been so eloquently said already by the noble Lords—they are not my noble friends—Lord Touhig and Lord Wills. Clearly there is a loophole in the law. The court has said that if the matter is to be resolved it is down to Parliament to do it. The Minister’s noble friend and colleague Lord Howe has recognised that there is a need to give attention to this matter and we shall all be interested to hear how far the Government have got with that consideration.

We have the opportunity now to do something about this and I am sure that everyone agrees that we should. I have been horrified by the cases we have heard about—the Manchester nurses and others—where people have been subjected to threats of having their houses burnt down and so on. This is clearly intolerable. There needs to be a legal remedy and the one proposed is perfectly appropriate. It does not impose an unduly onerous burden on the employer, who is simply required to take no more than reasonable steps. That being the case, I strongly urge the Grand Committee to support the amendment.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I support what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston, who happens to be a friend. If there is a part on whistleblowing in the Bill when it leaves the House, these two amendments will make a significant difference.

We could all regale the Committee with a number of stories about people being bullied and intimidated, but the case in Manchester went the whole hog and the courts were not able to help. Not only were the three nurses concerned unfairly treated but the case sent a strong message to people in the health service to keep their heads down and not to complain because, even if they complain and it goes through the ultimate procedure, the employer will not be able to stand with them. In fact, in this case the employer pursued the nurses for damages.

I do not wish to extend the debate. This is a principal issue in the Bill as it stands and, if this House can make an amendment along the lines of the one proposed—even if it is not worded perfectly at the moment—it will be a major contribution. There are no divisions between the parties on this. We all want to see the role of the whistleblower not only enhanced and supported but protected, otherwise the message going out will be, “We have the legislation, but please do not use it”.

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, I add my support to Amendments 22 and 23E for all the reasons already stated. It is unfortunate that many of the examples cited have referred to the NHS, where it seems that there is still quite a culture against whistleblowing. Having been involved in two organisations as they created whistleblowing policies, I know it is not just a matter of legislation; it is very much about changing the culture within an organisation. It seems to me that the remedies for solving this very particular problem exist within Amendments 22 and 23E, so I do hope that the Government will consider them.