The Government's Plan for Brexit

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Jim Cunningham

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

For the benefit of the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng), I just want to say that the Labour party was created for people living everywhere, not just those living in the north.

In his opening remarks, my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) said that he wanted to see a plan “not for the 52% or the 48% but for the 100%...in the national interest.” I am glad that the Government now agree with him. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) said, there is no mandate for what is known as hard Brexit, and there is no consensus for hard Brexit. He said that how we leave is an “urgent matter of…policy that should be…debated” and decided in this House.

The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) gave a clear description of how the process might work, saying: “I do not think that scrutiny and debate are a threat”. As an example of how not to do it, the Secretary of State referred to several options regarding the customs union. He said that the Government would decide whether the UK remains part of the customs union and that he would inform the House. That is not sufficient. This House must see the plan. The Government need to publish it in January so that, on issues such as membership of the customs union, that plan can be tested, debated and, if necessary, amended. That is what taking back control means. The Government are going to have to get used to it.

With control comes accountability. The Government will no longer be able to hide behind the excuse that the EU made them do something or they would have loved to intervene but the EU stopped them. The Government will need to account for their own decisions, and that starts with their Brexit plan. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) said, the plan should examine whether we remain in the single market and the customs union, the impact on our constituents, and the vision on immigration, on climate and energy and on crime and terrorism. My hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) would add to that the question of the status of EU nationals. The Government cannot take the country with them if they will not tell it where they plan to go.

The charge against those of us who have proposed Labour’s motion is that we are all remoaners who are using parliamentary tricks to obstruct the progress of Britain’s departure from the EU. Even though the Government have now accepted our motion, we are accused of asking them to reveal too much or of endangering their prospects of securing the best outcome. We have been told that there will be no running commentary. In her—as ever—excellent speech, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) said that we need basic answers to basic questions. She raised questions that are uncomfortable for some but that must be answered, and I applaud her for that.

We accept the outcome of the referendum, and, for the benefit of the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), we respect that outcome. But this is not a game; this is serious. The future of the United Kingdom is in the balance. This is the greatest challenge for politicians of our generation, and the Government should not be surprised when responsible MPs, such as my hon. Friends the Members for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) and for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) show an intense interest in and concern about how Brexit proceeds. Our constituents have set us on the course we must now follow. We, as their representatives, must ensure that their voices are heard throughout the process.

[Mr Jim Cunningham]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Jenny Chapman]

I will, but only once, as I am trying to wind up a six-hour debate in a very small amount of time.

[Mr Cunningham]

My hon. Friend referred to our hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey). One of the big issues in the midlands is regional aid. How will that be replaced? That is the sort of answer we want from the Government.

[Jenny Chapman]

Precisely.

We must know more than we do about the Government’s intentions. Surely, on the most important issue facing this country, that is not too much to ask. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) put it well: being clear about our objectives does not weaken us; it strengthens us. It is not just MPs who campaigned for remain who want more information; the British public, including those who voted to leave, want to know more about the plan. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) and the hon. Member for South Antrim (Danny Kinahan) said, this is not leave versus remain; it is Parliament doing its job. Take back control, we were told. This House will have done everything possible after this evening to assure the public that we will not block article 50. We now need to gain some grip on the process. We need to see the plan. If the plan presented is insufficient, we will come back and demand more.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster Central (Dame Rosie Winterton) urged the Government to include a regional analysis in their plan. I wholeheartedly echo that demand. The Government say they do not want to reveal their negotiating stance before they have to and that they do not want a running commentary, but the trouble is that a running commentary is exactly what we are getting. We and our constituents are gleaning clues about the Government’s intentions from leaked correspondence, snatched glimpses of notes and the musings of the Foreign Secretary. This is unhelpful in enabling challenge, scrutiny and contributions from MPs. It is also damaging our prospects for gaining a good outcome. It is not just the British public who are listening to the running commentary; it is being heard with some irritation by officials and parliamentarians in Europe.

Autumn Statement Distributional Analysis, Universal Credit and ESA

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Jim Cunningham

Wednesday 16th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman]

That is right. People want clarity. What everyone wants is for work to pay and for people to be better off in work than out of work, but that is not what we are going to get.

The Government used to be very keen on having a full and detailed distributional analysis, and I have with me the introduction to the one they published in 2012. They said then:

“The Government has taken unprecedented steps to increase transparency and enable effective scrutiny of policy making by publishing detailed distributional analysis of the impact of its reforms on households.”

It was a very good thing that the Government, and the right hon. Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), did then. The right hon. Gentleman went on to say:

“The analysis shows average impacts due to policy changes over time across the income and expenditure distributions by decile”.

I hope that, at the end of the debate, Ministers will commit themselves to publishing the information by decile, so that we can scrutinise it properly and challenge the Government on what they are about to reveal. That is not just my view. The Tory Chair of the Treasury Committee agrees, because he knows that if he is do his job effectively the information must be published and available to everyone, including the public. This matters: the distributional analysis should reveal the impact of tax, welfare and public spending changes on 10 household income brackets, but the Government want to halve the amount of detail and cover just five brackets.

I was pleased when the Conservatives chose this new Prime Minister, given the choices that they had, and I was pleased when she said that she wanted this to be

“a country that works for everyone”.

Don’t we all? But how can we know whether the Prime Minister is true to her word if she does not proceed to publish the information that we need to test the assertion by which she herself asked to be judged? Unless she does so, we cannot test that claim.

This leads us to ask ourselves what the Government are attempting to hide. What the Minister said sounded incredibly positive, and there were many measures that he said we ought to be welcoming. If that is true—if he is right and Opposition Front Benchers are wrong—he should publish the information, so that we can test him on his claims. Go on, let us see it!

I suspect that the picture is not quite as rosy as the Minister suggested. Perhaps it is the £1,500 a year to be taken from disabled people that he is trying to conceal, but it could be any number of the measures that he has in mind. The Resolution Foundation has estimated that the poorest 50% of households will be £375 worse off on average by 2020-21, while the other half will be £235 better off. We need this information to be published before every Budget and every autumn statement, so that we can compare the impact of the different measures. I want to be able to see what is going to happen next week and compare it with what happened three years ago.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a marvellous speech. Does she agree that we can safely conclude that someone is going to lose out somewhere when the Government speak about their proposals in such glowing terms?

[Jenny Chapman]

My hon. Friend has far more experience of scrutinising Conservative Governments than I have, and I suspect that he may be right.

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the effect of all the tax and benefit changes in last year’s autumn statement would mean losses about 25 times larger for those in the bottom decile than for those in the top decile. If the IFS is wrong, let the Government publish the information so that the Minister can back up the claim that he has made today. The IFS also says that average earnings have been revised down in every year of the forecast, as has real household disposable income.

We want to know exactly what the country is in for. On 23 June, we made a decision to leave the European Union, and what that has done—or part of what it has done—is unleash a huge amount of uncertainty on the country, on business and on decision makers. One thing that the Government could do to ease some of that uncertainty is publish all the information that we need to determine where we are and track the direction in which the Government are taking us.

According to the IFS, nearly half a million children will be plunged into absolute poverty by 2020

“as a result of planned tax and benefit reforms”

in the March Budget. The IFS says that an additional 500,000 people—including 400,000 children—will be in relative poverty because of tax and benefit overhauls. That paints a very different picture from the one presented by the Minister. Unless he is prepared to publish a proper distributional analysis, we shall be forced to conclude that he is, for some reason, trying—his attempt will fail—to conceal the impact of some of the measures that he has in mind. I hope that he will resist that urge and commit himself to publishing a proper analysis with 10 deciles, so that we can see what is happening, make comparisons over time, and challenge and scrutinise the Government effectively.

Tax Credits

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 29th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman]

That will probably end up being one of the quotes of the day. That is a good way of putting it.

I am speaking on behalf of the 7,200 families in my constituency who care for the 3,900 children who will lose out as a result of these changes. When the Government bring forward whatever ideas they come up with to mitigate the impact, we must have the information that we need to assess whether they will be effective.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead outlined what data he would like to see. I would like to see a regional distribution, because I suspect that communities such as the one I represent, where wages are low, will be impacted more heavily than other parts of the country. I am also interested in the gender impact of the changes. I would like to see how much debt the Government believe is being serviced by incomes that are in part made up of tax credits. I suspect that mortgages, car loans, credit cards and other personal debts are being repaid on the back of tax credits.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

The problem is actually worse because there are people, particularly women, on zero-hours contracts who cannot get tax credits. What does my hon. Friend think about that?

[Jenny Chapman]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. It is for Ministers to respond to that intervention and I look forward to hearing the reply.

This debate is about children. It costs an enormous amount to raise a child, as many of us know from personal experience. I have read that it can take between £100,000 and £150,000 to raise a child. Child benefit meets only about 10% or 15% of that cost for people who claim it. Tax credits are a contribution from the state towards the cost of raising children.