Ukraine: UK-USA Discussions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Wednesday 19th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the first Oral Question is from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, who will be participating remotely.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, the UK fully supports President Trump’s efforts to end Russia’s illegal war, and we remain in regular contact with the US at every level. Last week, G7 Foreign Ministers agreed on the need for an immediate ceasefire and that the current line of contact should be the starting point for negotiations. We continue to work with the US and international partners to ratchet up the pressure on Putin, to force him to engage in meaningful discussions that result in just and lasting peace.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, for over three years I have argued in the House for delaying Ukraine NATO membership, non-nuclear weapon status for barrier states stretching from Estonia to Georgia, a major powers treaty on Ukraine neutrality and the Russian ask, a deal on Donetsk and Luhansk. Why not think out of the box, face reality on the ground, join Trump’s meaningful attempts in promoting a Russian transition from quasi-autocracy to democracy and, in doing so, derail an opportunist, nomadic Russia’s links with an increasing assertive China, all in favour of promoting post-Putin Russia’s links to the West, which is where it belongs?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I do not think the House is with the noble Lord on his plan. He has an idea for a settlement that he has long held close to his heart and put to this Chamber on several occasions. He knows that we disagree fundamentally with one another on this issue. We believe it is for the Ukrainians to decide when the conditions are right, whether they are prepared to negotiate and on what basis. That will remain this Government’s position.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have been in the noble Baroness’s position several times over, answering that particular question from the noble Lord. Bearing in mind the tragedy that is Ukraine, one of the real tragedies we have seen in diplomacy is the declining influence of the United Nations to convene some kind of negotiation. In this regard, alongside the United States, Turkey has played an important role. It is a NATO partner, and today President Zelensky is visiting Ankara. What direct engagement have we had with President Erdoğan and Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Sadly, the noble Lord is right in what he says about the United Nations. We are where we are. We believe the United Nations remains the single most important multilateral organisation we have, and we would be inventing it if it did not exist.

We cannot allow ourselves, because of the situation we face with the politics at the UN, to be paralysed by the truth that the noble Lord has just outlined. We are very close to all partners who are endeavouring to move this along and create some conditions and opportunities for important dialogue to take place. We speak closely with our friends and allies in Turkey and with all those others who are endeavouring, as we are, to support those who wish to see peace in Ukraine and an end to Russia’s illegal war.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, will the Government make clear that we support Ukraine and that we stand by the Budapest memorandum, which has been so flagrantly defiled by the Russians? In that context, will we first transfer Russian assets to support the defence of Ukraine, and will we recognise that that £30 billion will be necessary unless peace can be agreed? Peace can be agreed—and the Americans have to accept this—only on terms that the Ukrainians can accept; it cannot be imposed by a bilateral agreement between the United States and Russia.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

There is no peace without the agreement of the Ukrainians; that is absolutely clear. We support President Trump’s efforts towards peace. It is important that we support all those who are trying to bring this dreadful war to a conclusion. On the issue of Russian assets, we are doing everything we can to make sure that the money needed for Ukraine gets there and that Russia pays for the damage it has caused.

[Lord Beamish (Lab)]

My Lords, will my noble friend join me in condemning the Russian attack this week on the Polish railway system? Is this not an example of how Putin may talk of peace but is doing the opposite in attacking one of our key allies, Poland?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I condemn the attack on the Polish railway. The attacks on Ukraine grow ever more deadly, and the attacks on Ukrainian energy supplies are particularly egregious as we approach the middle of winter. Putin’s actions belie the idea that he is genuinely seeking peace at the moment.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I too could not disagree more with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, because it is very clear that peace will never be achieved in Ukraine until Putin feels pressured to end the war. Can the Minister confirm that the UK will at least maintain the value in real terms of our military support to Ukraine next year?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are fully committed to maintaining our support to Ukraine militarily but also in all the other forms it takes.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept my thanks for the emphasis she put on the United Nations? Does she recognise that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a fundamental breach of the United Nations charter agreed in 1945, and that the use of the Russian veto and some other vetoes on the Security Council to prevent it doing anything useful to bring an end to this war is, in political terms at any rate, an abuse of its position?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I agree with that. The politics of the UN are complex, as the noble Lord well knows, but it is clear to see at the moment that in regard to Ukraine the Security Council will not be the route through to a solution, which is why we have the coalition of the willing and other networks being established to try to get negotiations—notwithstanding what is happening at the UN—to make some progress and to bring about a conclusion to this deadly war.

[Lord Banner (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the precedent that would be set by allowing Russia to keep any of its ill-gotten territorial gains would pose a far greater long-term threat to international peace and security than doing everything we can financially and militarily to support Ukraine to repel it?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is absolutely right. Russia must not be rewarded for its actions here. That would send a bad signal to others around the world and would leave other states in the region incredibly vulnerable.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that it would be very naive to believe that Putin’s only ambition is to occupy parts of Ukraine? He has much wider views about where he would like to occupy. It is most important that we make sure he does not succeed.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We have many reasons to believe that, not least because that is what Putin himself has said. We also look at the behaviour of Russia in Georgia, Romania and Poland. There is plenty of evidence to support what my noble friend asserts.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, Ukraine cannot win a body-on-body attritional conflict with Russia. Putin knows this. The only way he is going to come to the negotiating table is if Ukraine can inflict sufficient damage on Russia elsewhere. The only way it is going to be able to do that is with the kinds of weapon systems it currently does not have, and the only way it is going to get those is through the agreement of the United States. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the prospect of the United States agreeing to this any time soon? If it does not, the next several months look pretty dire for Ukraine.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am sure the noble and gallant Lord will know that the United States is shifting its position and is allowing Ukraine to purchase NATO weapons. We continue to talk to our friends and allies, especially in the United States, to make sure that Ukraine, as he says, has what it needs in order to defend itself.