British Council

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure the continued operation of the British Council.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, the British Council plays an important role in supporting the UK’s soft power and interests around the world through its work in the arts, culture, education and the promotion of the English language. We are providing over £160 million grant in aid to the British Council this year alone, which underlines our support for its important work.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, last week, Scott McDonald, the chief executive of the British Council, told MPs that the council was going to sell all its assets and close 40 country programmes unless the Government reschedule a £197 million loan costing £12 million to £15 million in interest. The council has already sold its English language business in India and its school in Madrid, and is withdrawing from the frontier Baltic states. Why, given the crucial role of the British Council as a key instrument of soft power which is technically close to insolvency, has there been no resolution of the loan and grant in aid at all? Why is there—to quote its chief executive—a “complete unwillingness” to help? With these cuts in aid, to the BBC World Service and to the British Council, are the Government just managing the decline of Britain’s soft power from its former position of pre-eminence?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are helping a lot. We provide about 16% or 17% of the British Council’s funding each year. There is an issue with an outstanding loan which was given as part of a Covid package by the previous Government. Terms for that loan were never agreed, and terms need to be agreed. We have organised an extension, in order for work to take place. As the noble Lord rightly says, the British Council is a vital part of the UK’s soft power internationally. It does a fantastic job, and we want to work with it to put it on a long-term, sustainable and stable footing.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Question we have just heard did not get a very reassuring Answer. Is this not precisely the sort of resource that we, as an advanced country, should be developing to underpin both our security and our trade? Is this not the sort of glue that binds together the Commonwealth countries, which are, of course, an expanding resource as well? Will the Minister tell her colleagues in the Foreign Office that most other countries recognise that Commonwealth power and soft power generally are part of our future? Will she encourage them to give a lot more attention to it than appears to be given in some commentators’ columns in certain newspapers, who frankly do not understand what is going on?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am not going to make any comments about our newspapers today—I could, but I will not. We do a great deal of work with the British Council, which is an important part of soft power. We are, as I said, giving it £160 million each year and are working to help it restructure its loan. It needs to carry out modernisation work. It is getting on with that, which Scott McDonald is doing a very good job leading. However, our soft power in 2025 is not, if it ever was, just the British Council; it is the Premier League, our music, our cultural industries and the BBC—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

There is an interesting response to that today.

There are so many different levers for soft power that may not have been there in the past, but that does not mean that the British Council is not central to our soft power around the world. We are committed to strengthening it and making sure that it can continue to do outstanding work well into the 21st century.

[Baroness Alexander of Cleveden (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as on the register. My noble friend the Minister will have the sentiment of the House on this matter and the overdue delay in resolving a Covid-era loan. Remembrance Day is the right day to remember that the British Council was founded 90 years ago, to fight fascism. It is the greatest soft power asset that this country has, and it is envied by friends and foe alike. The reality is that it is financially imperilled by a loan from the Covid era. Will my noble friend commit that the Foreign Secretary will now finally grip this issue and meet the leadership of the council to resolve the financial issues and allow it to continue to be the credit to this country that it has been in the past and should be in the future?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

There is no lack of will to get this resolved. We need to see modernisation at the British Council; it is working hard at this and deserves credit for that. As the noble Baroness says, it is incredibly well-networked internationally, but I have to say that its network inside this House is equally impressive.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister referred a number of times in her answers to the important issue of UK soft power. In January, the then Foreign Secretary announced the UK Soft Power Council. We do not seem to have heard much about it since then, but the British Council is a member. Can the Minister confirm what the UK Soft Power Council’s role will be in promoting the UK abroad, how many times it has met since the announcement, and whether any of those roles are duplicating work that is already being undertaken by the British Council?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

As the noble Lord says, the British Council is part of the Soft Power Council, which is a joint initiative between the FCDO and DCMS. It brings together the arts, heritage, Kew Gardens and the Premier League—many of the different soft power assets that the UK has—and the aim is to co-ordinate them and use them to best effect. I believe it has met three times now. I attended the first meeting and it met again after that, in Cardiff. I pay absolute credit to the people who are taking part and giving their time to do that. It has working groups as well, which get together and organise alongside it. It has the potential to do great things for the United Kingdom.

[Lord Inglewood (CB)]

My Lords, the House will have heard in response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, how the assets of the British Council are being threatened with dispersal. Among those assets is the important collection of works of art. Bearing in mind that these are public property, would not the appropriate outcome, if that unhappy event takes place, be for them to be allocated, along the lines of articles which are accepted in lieu of tax, to all the museums the length and breadth of the whole country?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I think we need a bit of reality here. The idea that the Treasury is going to accept art in lieu of a loan is a little fanciful. It is up to the British Council to decide what it wants to do with its assets. Setting aside the loan, the British Council still has work to do to make itself financially secure and sustainable into the future. It is getting on with that and doing a really good job of it. I commend the British Council for what it is doing. What it decides to do with its own assets is a matter for the British Council.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Winterton of Doncaster (Lab)]

My Lords, as the trade envoy to Bangladesh, I hosted here in Parliament, attended by the noble Baroness, Lady Alexander, the signing of a higher education partnership between the British Council and the University Grants Commission of Bangladesh, which will improve not only higher education links but trade links. Will my noble friend the Minister recognise the power of those kinds of partnerships, not only to improve trade but to provide the soft power that she has referred to, when considering the granting of money to the British Council?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

One of the reasons that we have worked hard to protect the British Council’s funding and are committed to the £160 million is because of the amazing work that it does supporting higher education and opportunities for young people—and some older people too. The noble Baroness will be pleased to know that I am travelling to Bangladesh tomorrow, due in no small part to her encouragement. I commend her for the amazing work that she has been doing to develop trade in Bangladesh.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I was very surprised to hear the Minister’s response on the art collection and the indication that it would be okay, therefore, if the British Council sold this off. Would it not make a lot more sense for us to keep that within public ownership in the way that the British Council has proposed, as a way of offsetting the loan? Surely the Treasury should be looking at it in that light. To have heard the Minister’s response does not inspire me with confidence. I want to add that, on soft power, I hope the Government will support the BBC, which we now see is under dire pressure. As the Minister said herself, the BBC is very important for soft power and international renown as far as the United Kingdom and the wider world are concerned.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I completely agree about the role of the BBC in soft power, particularly the World Service and BBC Verify, which do a tremendous job. I would go so far as to say that they are saving lives every day with the work that they do.

On the issue of art, it is right that the British Council makes these decisions. If it wishes to dispose of assets—it has assets other than an art collection, of course—that is its decision. I am not suggesting that it does this. The council came to me previously with that suggestion. If there is a way for the British Council to avoid doing this, which would be its preference, it is well within the council’s powers to make that choice. There is no pressure from anyone I can see to make the council make a particular decision. However, the British Council would agree that it must get itself on a stable footing. We must make an agreement with the Treasury on the loan, and we will do that. Terms should have been agreed when the loan was made. Other people will have to explain why that was not done, but it needs to be addressed. Even if the loan is taken out of the equation, there must be a stable financial footing for the British Council, with a modern vision for the future of its activities, because it is vital. We will work with it to make sure that that happens, but it needs to take responsibility for this too.