Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Baroness Byford and Lord Trees

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Grand Committee

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

I thank the Minister for introducing the first of these amendments. I have two issues that I should like to follow up on. The first is about geographical indication. I see from the brief that the UK has some 86 product names already in being; it cites Scotch whisky, Welsh lamb and Cornish pasties. I would love to have had Stilton cheese and Melton Mowbray pork pies in there, coming as I do from the Leicestershire end. Can the Minister clarify that this will in no way restrict new products from becoming listed?

Secondly, I am grateful for what he said on the GMOs, and accept the importance of labelling. But again, looking to the future with the same rigour, I trust that new developments will not be precluded. Again, I should like some clarification, but I welcome this amendment.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for his characteristically clear explanation of this SI. I have just a few queries on which I should appreciate his assurance. First, under Part 4, Regulation (EC) No. 1830/2003 concerning genetically modified organisms, Article 4 refers to amending thresholds for release of GMOs into the environment.

Do the Government intend to alter thresholds? Under what circumstances might that be done? Who will ultimately decide what future thresholds will be? I certainly do not want to preclude novel developments; I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, on that.

Part 5 covers Commission decision 2009/821/EC, which refers to border inspection posts and TRACES, the Trade Control and Expert System, for notification of imports and so on. How many border inspection posts are there currently? Are there plans for any more? Can we be assured that the number is adequate to deal with any Brexit scenario?

Secondly, I understand that TRACES will be replaced by a British system. I believe it is called the Import of Products, Animals, Food and Feed System, with the natty acronym IPAFFS. When will that be operational? Will it be by 29 March?

Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) Regulations 2018

Debate between Baroness Byford and Lord Trees

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Grand Committee

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, I strongly support these extremely welcome changes to activities licensed by local authorities under five earlier Acts through regulations under powers in the Animal Welfare Act 2006. These licensing conditions will now reflect the welfare requirements of animals as required in that Act and as will be required in the specific guidance being produced in association with this instrument—guidance that will be statutory, which is very important. The activities have been outlined by the noble Lord and I commend Her Majesty’s Government for introducing this instrument, which will undoubtedly have a very positive effect on animal welfare. I should like to make one or two comments and ask one or two questions.

On the breeding of dogs, the measure to reduce the numbers of litters per year from five to three, at which point a licence is required, and to apply various sensible measures, such as a prohibition on the sale of pups less than eight weeks of age, the requirement to provide information to the buyers and other sensible measures, are very welcome. However, it is worth emphasising, as the noble Lord did, that these requirements would apply to anyone breeding and selling puppies, even from one litter, if it was deemed to be a business. My understanding—the Minister may want to correct me on this—is that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs regards a profit of more than £1,000 a year as a business, but that needs clarity.

In toto, this instrument addresses several serious animal welfare concerns which many have had for some time. They include online sales, which have been addressed, exotic pets, for which more guidance will now have to be given at the point of sale, and various aspects of the breeding and sale of puppies.

Another measure with which I strongly concur is relevant to current concerns about the breeding of dogs where their conformation or genetics predispose to health or welfare problems among mothers or puppies. This is contained in paragraph 6(5) of Schedule 6 of the guidance:

“No dog may be kept for breeding if it can reasonably be expected, on the basis of its genotype, phenotype or state of health that breeding from it could have a detrimental effect on its health or welfare or the health or welfare of its offspring”.


This is extremely welcome. It clearly has relevance to issues of current concern, such as brachycephalia, where short-nosed breeds have a much higher incidence of respiratory disorder. There is even a name for it: BOAS—Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrome. There will clearly need to be consideration and discussion of the words “reasonably be expected” but I very much hope that this guidance will hasten current efforts to improve the health status of various breeds that intrinsically have a higher risk of suffering ill health. Indeed, I hope it will persuade dog owners and breeders to be much more selective in the dogs that they buy and breed.

I have some questions for the Minister. The guidance is essential to this instrument, so can the Minister assure us that it will be available by 1 October when the instrument is enacted? Will local authorities be given enough scope to charge reasonable fees? Will those fees be ring-fenced so that they cover all the costs incurred by local authorities—not just the training costs, about which we have heard a little, but all the costs of the measures—so that no local authority can claim insufficient resources to enforce this instrument?

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

My Lords, I too welcome this animal welfare regulation before us. I think that there are two of us here in Grand Committee who took the original Bill through, back in 2006, and I know we spent many hours on the Bill trying to get it right. Clearly, however, times have moved on—there was no such thing as buying and selling animals online in those days, which, as other noble Lords have mentioned, is a challenge.

I want to follow up on the last comment made, about breeding healthy dogs, because that is a huge problem. I do not know if it is so relevant in cats—it could well be—but it is certainly relevant for dogs. Therefore, I am glad to see it mentioned and hope that the Minister will be able to reinforce it. However, I have one question: what about some of the dogs that come in from abroad? Again, that is a question relating to their health and breeding.

In general terms, I welcome this improvement and tightening up of some of the regulations, and I know that a lot of outside bodies were consulted so that they could comment. I have four specific questions that I would like to raise about the document. I turn first to paragraph 5(2) of Schedule 3, which states that anybody who wants to buy a cat or dog has to go in person to see it. But I am thinking of those who are housebound: in that situation, those who want a cat may not necessarily be able to go and see it. Has any thought been given to this? Could a carer or somebody else go on their behalf?

My second question relates to paragraph 8(4) of Schedule 4: why do boarded dogs require daily exercise only once but breeding dogs require it twice? It seems to me slightly strange that they are not both under the same regime, because surely they both need good exercise. However, I suspect that the Minister will have an answer.

My third question concerns Schedule 7, which talks about private persons who train or show one or more pets. This may not apply directly to farm animals, but many of us in the Grand Committee go to county shows where animals are shown. They are perhaps not trained in the technical sense, but they are trained to show. Originally, I presumed that they would not be classed as a business, but some of the animals at these shows become very valuable if they manage to win championships. I have not found an answer in what is before us as to whether they would qualify and need a licence, or whether they are not regarded as a business, although they might be a business. It is fairly fine line and I would be grateful for some clarification.

My last question, which has been picked up by other noble Lords, goes back to the responsibilities that have been placed on local authorities. I accept that local authorities are able to claim back and get full costs, but will those local authorities that do not have many demands on them under the regulations have different charging rates? I am sure that that is not the intention, but how will we overcome this? The best way forward is not clear to me. There is a responsibility on local authorities and the move from one year to three years will help to lessen the demands on people’s time and expertise, but I would be glad to hear some clarification from the Minister when he responds.

Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing (England) Regulations 2015

Debate between Baroness Byford and Lord Trees

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, for introducing this Motion to Regret. This is a complex and very technical issue, but at its heart is the importance our society and our Government attach to the welfare of animals at slaughter.

First, I must acknowledge that there are a number of measures in this regulation which are improvements to the previous regulations, and I commend the Government on that. Notably, these include the requirement for abattoirs above a certain size to have a designated animal welfare officer whose job is to ensure that welfare requirements at killing are observed and effective. They also include the requirement that the personnel working in the killing process in abattoirs are appropriately trained and have certificates of competence. These are positive and welcome measures.

However, as noble Lords have said, there are other features of the regulations pertaining to poultry that do not prioritise animal welfare. Of specific concern is the failure to specify particular parameters for the electrical stunning of poultry in water baths. Previous rules did not specify the electrical current and frequency to be used, and it has been recognised that under certain conditions—low current, for example—animals may not be properly rendered unconscious before the neck-cut to sever the blood vessels kills them.

As a result of a thorough review of these issues by an expert panel convened by the European Food Safety Authority, the EU formulated regulations to include recommended levels of current and frequency in order to achieve the unconsciousness of animals more reliably. Why have these specific conditions not been included in the adopted regulations? The Government’s own Explanatory Memorandum suggested that the original regulations for England that contained specific conditions for stunning were withdrawn in 2014 due to concerns over,

“the potential impact on some limited aspects of religious slaughter”.

The noble Baroness has asked this question already—I promise that we did not confer—but I shall ask it anyway: what is the “potential impact”? The original recommendations include a range of conditions referring to current and frequency that research has shown reliably induce unconsciousness but do not kill the anima1. This latter is crucial to enable the stunning to be done in compliance with the requirements of halal slaughter, which requires stunning, if it is used, to be reversible—that is, recoverable—so that the animals are technically alive, though insentient, at the point at which their throat is cut.

I welcome the fact that the majority of animals subject to halal slaughter are stunned before killing. The WATOK regulations as originally drafted would enable effective but reversible stunning, which is acceptable for halal so far as I can see, so I am perplexed as to why the current WATOK regulations for England exclude these greater safeguards to ensure that poultry are effectively electrically stunned. Moreover, the lack of defined electrical parameters applies to all poultry in England. This could mean that millions of birds stunned for the non-religious market may not be as effectively stunned as possible, based on current evidence. As the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, has pointed out, this is in contrast to the EU’s recommended requirements for all stunning, religious and otherwise; and, with respect to religious slaughter, is in contrast to the regulations adopted by Northern Ireland and Wales and de facto in Scotland. This is a gross anomaly within the UK and is difficult to understand. I would welcome an explanation from the Minister for this omission.

I stress at this point that the adopted regulations still allow religious communities the option not to stun. That is an option with which I personally do not agree, but it respects religious freedoms. As an aside, I find it of considerable concern that the number of sheep and goats killed without stunning in the UK has risen from an estimated 1.5 million in 2011 to an estimated 2 million-plus in 2013, based on the FSA’s survey of abattoirs in those two years. That is a regrettable trend that I argue is in the wrong direction for animal welfare.

In conclusion, I support the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, in regretting the WATOK regulations relating to the electrical stunning of poultry. I contend that they are anomalous and regressive and do not enhance our national reputation for upholding animal welfare.

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for bringing forward this short debate. It is entirely right that we should be having it, and I am very pleased to be able to add one or two questions to the Minister. Before I start, I should tell noble Lords that I am a former poultry farmer so I have been at the sharp end of the rearing, the breeding—and at the end, obviously, the killing of poultry. The one thing that we tried to do throughout our lifetime still applies to good farmers today: they are very keen that welfare is of extreme importance, whether at birth, through life or in death. I declare that I am an associate member of the BVA. I thank it for its briefing, which I think several noble Lords have referred to.

Over the years I have also taken part in the many animal health and welfare Bills. I know that if the noble Countess, Lady Mar, was well enough, she would be taking part in this debate tonight, because she is another person who takes great interest in trying to improve the lot of animal welfare.