Post Office Appointments: Ministerial Responsibility

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 7th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

I am sorry, but the Minister has not answered the question from the noble Lord, Lord Arbuthnot.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Order. It is the turn of the Cross Benches.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, as a member of one of the departments is a member of the board of the Post Office, at the relevant time—and the board knew quite early on that Horizon was not working properly—why did that representative not tell the Government, or did he do so?

Housing: New Homes Target

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 17th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, shall we hear from the Cross Benches first? Thank you.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, in order to assist affordable housing, some thought should be given to building prefabricated houses?

Illegal Migration Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 29th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I know that my noble friend the Minister will discuss that later. It is not quite a matter for debate now.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I remain concerned about the child impact assessment. The Chief Whip said that it will come before the end of Report. The next day of Report is Monday, and the last day is Wednesday. If we do not get it until Tuesday evening, for instance, many of us who have spoken on child matters may have a very limited opportunity on the last day of Report to express any view whatever on the impact assessment. I am extremely concerned that we have not had it.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, I undertake to get it early next week—Monday, if possible.

Slavery and Human Trafficking (Definition of Victim) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 20th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I am not at all sure that I am allowed to speak, and I seek the approval of the House. The reason that I arrived late was that I was having an MRI scan for a bad back. Am I too late to speak?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble Baroness is looking at me and I guess I am a bit of a soft touch.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I am very grateful and it was only because I had a bad fall last week and went for an MRI scan. I took the first taxi back to be here.

What saddens me is that this Government are enormously to be praised for the Modern Slavery Act. It was the work really of the then Prime Minister Theresa May and we should be grateful to her that we have led the way across the world. That makes these regulations very sad.

I went with Romanian police and the Metropolitan Police down the Edgware Road, where a Romanian Roma gang was exploiting 20 or 30 Romanian women, who were begging. It was a fantastic coup by the Metropolitan Police and eight men went to prison, I am glad to say. That was modern slavery, but it is not included here. Begging, debt bondage and benefit fraud—and some others, but particularly those three—are contained as part of modern slavery. This case some years ago was a very typical example of serious modern slavery, but it would not be within these regulations, as far as I can see.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Consideration of Commons amendments
Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I thought I would start by talking about time on debates. This House does spend time on debate. We have gone on until 2 am, 3 am and, once, 4 am in debate. We do not curtail it.

The Government have given way on this Bill in a number of ways. I am very glad my noble friend Lord Cashman—he is my noble friend—is in the Chamber because one thing we have worked on over far too many years is the disregards for historical offences by LGBT people that are no longer offences today. I am incredibly proud that we have secured that through this Bill. To go back to the point from my noble friend Lord Deben about the Secretary of State saying which things they want to get through, I am not going to try to thwart the will of the Home Secretary; I approached her personally on this matter. She had no hesitation in giving way and helping us promote that through this House. I am very glad it has gone through already. We have short memories sometimes; we forget what has gone through on Report. Just this morning we conceded on the PACE powers, and what we are down to is the sticking point on two matters—powers that are vested in the police, not the Home Secretary.

I am pleased that Amendments 58C to 58E have found favour with the noble Lords, Lord Rooker and Lord Coaker, and I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Russell, for his very constructive approach to the issue of the police recording offences aggravated by sex or gender. I do think, through this Bill—not legislatively but through a practical solution—that we have a good way forward. We can all agree the outcome we want to see, which is the collection of data that is usable, useful and consistent. I have outlined that it is not straightforward. I also acknowledge the detailed questions he sent to us yesterday afternoon. I am afraid that, in the short time available, we have not had the chance to consider them, but we will do so and provide him with answers as soon as possible and keep the House updated.

The two outstanding public order measures have been subject to extensive debate and scrutiny in this House and the other place for close to 13 months. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, asked whether removing “serious unease” risks watering down the threshold, as the qualifier “serious” will no longer apply to alarm or distress triggers. That is not the case: the adjective “serious” can be applied only to the unease trigger, not to the alarm or distress triggers. He seeks to caricature these provisions with his point about double-glazing. The House found him very amusing, but it is not a double-glazing test. The Bill provides that, in determining whether the level of noise may have a significant impact on persons in the vicinity of a protest, the police must have regard to, among other things, the likely intensity of the impact.

The factsheet we have published to aid understanding of these provisions is not guidance for the police. A noisy protest outside a building with double glazing will have less of an impact on the occupants of that building than if there is no double glazing. That is a statement of the obvious but is a matter of judgment for the police on a case-by-case basis. The tests to be applied are clearly set out in the Bill and the police are well versed in applying similar tests in other contexts. The elected House has now reconsidered the amendments on public order a second time and has insisted on its disagreement with the relevant Lords amendments, but in the spirit of compromise it has put forward a constructive amendment to address concerns about the drafting of these provisions. I urge the House to accept this amendment.

I assure my noble friend Lord Cormack that in the normal way, this Bill will be subject to post-legislative scrutiny three to five years after Royal Assent. On the issue raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, the Bill also increases the maximum penalty for obstructing the highway. To answer my noble friend Lord Deben, we have honoured the deal. The Government have listened in so many ways on this Bill, as I have illustrated with a couple of examples, but part of this deal is that ultimately, the views of the elected House should have primacy. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, that, as I said earlier, the powers are vested not in the Home Secretary but in the police.

I note that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has also put forward his own compromise Amendment, 80J, which would enable the police to set conditions prescribing the start and end times of an assembly, as proposed by the Joint Committee on Human Rights. In our response to the JCHR report, we quoted from the HMICFRS report on the policing of protests, which said that

“protests are fluid, and it is not always possible to make this distinction”

between assemblies and processions.

“Some begin as assemblies and become processions, and vice versa. The practical challenges of safely policing a protest are not necessarily greater in the case of processions than in the case of assemblies, so this would not justify making a wider range of conditions available for processions than for assemblies”.


Given the findings of HMICFRS and the evidence provided by the police, we continue to believe that it is necessary and proportionate to ensure that the police have the power to place the same conditions on assemblies that they do on processions, and in addition to specifying the start and end time of—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. What is the point of a factsheet if the police are not to take account of it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, it is intended to be helpful. Going back to something the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, said at Second Reading, which seems like an age ago now, we must provide clarity to the police. I totally agree with the points he made then.

Given the findings of HMICFRS and the evidence provided by the police, we still think it necessary and proportionate to ensure that the police have the power to place the same conditions on assemblies as they do on processions. In addition to specifying the start and end time of an assembly, as provided for in Amendment 80J, or the place where the assembly may take place and the maximum number of participants, as the 1986 Act currently provides for, it should be left to the operational judgment of the police to apply other necessary conditions—for example, conditions prohibiting the use of lock-on equipment where this could cause serious disruption to the life of the community.

This House has fulfilled its responsibilities as a revising Chamber, and I commend noble Lords for the time they have taken in scrutinising the Bill. It is now time for this Bill to pass.

Knife Crime

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 9th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

As my noble friend will know, the picture of knife crime is not a simple one. Many factors drive the use of knives, both as regards victims and perpetrators, but there is no doubt that county lines drug-running does increase their usage.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I ask the Minister whether the Government are helping youth clubs.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I am sure that the noble and learned Baroness knows about some of the youth interventions we are putting in place, including in youth opportunities. We are investing £200 million in a youth endowment fund to ensure that those most at risk are given the opportunity to turn their lives away from violence and lead positive lives.

Hate Crimes: Misogyny

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 6th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I suggest to the Minister that, before making misogyny a hate crime, it would be wise to look more widely at the various offences that already exist and to add this if it is appropriate, or possibly to widen some other offence to include it. There is a grave danger, as has been said, of making too many offences.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right, and we look forward to the Law Commission’s recommendations in this area.

Refugees: Status

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, we are making the point that France is a safe country.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing about unaccompanied minors who want to join their families in this country?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, the noble and learned Baroness makes a really important point about unaccompanied minors. I pay tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, in this area. We will always try to give unaccompanied asylum-seeking children refuge where it is needed. There will always be scope for an exemption from temporary protection status if it could not have been reasonably expected that they would come directly or claim without delay. All UASCs will be exempt from any no recourse to public funds requirement.

Domestic Abuse: Older People

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I do not have exact information for my noble friend. I totally agree with her that there may have been a lot of things going on behind closed doors that we do not yet realise. Clearly, we are opening up a bit more next Monday and, horribly, some of these things will come to light. But I will get her information on just how much one-to-one engagement has been done during the pandemic, because of course there is social distancing to be cognisant of as well.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

I declare an interest as chair of the National Commission on Forced Marriage. I ask the Minister to look at ensuring that the strategy for older people includes the special needs of older victims of forced marriage.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The noble and learned Baroness is right that the effects of domestic abuse and forced marriage are not confined to any one age group. She will also know that 297 forced marriage protection orders were made last year, and that between 2008 and this year nearly 3,000 orders have been made. This must go some way to try to prevent it but the point that she makes about the ongoing trauma post forced marriage is absolutely right.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Committee stage & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interest, as set out in the register, as chair of the National Commission on Forced Marriage. I ask the Minister that any guidance on training that is given to local authorities has added to it that some women may be victims of forced marriage and may therefore need some specialist support.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can certainly look into that for the noble and learned Baroness and ask that it be included.

Domestic Abuse and Hidden Harms during Lockdown

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend is right that a lot of domestic abuse happens when alcohol has been taken, hence the police and the Government are very much alert to the probability that levels of domestic abuse will increase when there are big events such as the World Cup. Of course, lockdown has also meant an increase in drinking for some people. The Home Office and the Government are very concerned for the welfare of people who may be stuck at home, notwithstanding the Prime Minister’s statement that you do not have to remain in your home if you are the victim of domestic violence. On how we can ameliorate alcohol abuse through the various things that we might require perpetrators to do, a domestic abuse protection order may specify alcohol abstinence—or there may be tagging, as my noble friend said—and on breach it becomes a criminal matter.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

I refer to my interests in the register. This is a very helpful Statement from the Minister, but I ask her to include forced marriage in government strategy, communication and training programmes. Will she also look at the position of some wives whose marriages are not registered and therefore fall outside the spousal domestic violence immigration status?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I am acutely aware of the woman who finds herself either in a forced marriage or in a marriage that is not actually a legal marriage at all. One thing that will be very important for ensuring the passage of the Domestic Abuse Bill will be to keep it focused on the issue of domestic abuse. I am not in any way saying that forced marriage is not a form of domestic abuse, but certainly there are laws against forced marriage, and it is something that the Home Office is acutely aware of.

Migrant Women: Domestic Abuse

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 23rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I cannot confirm the time but, particularly during Covid, our intention is to get funds to people and to lift any restrictions on recourse to public funds as quickly as possible, so that those people—mostly women—get the support that they need when they need it.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

I refer to my interests in the register. Can the Minister take into account that, among migrants subjected to domestic abuse, there may be those in enforced marriage situations?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I agree that the two are not mutually exclusive at all. One might assume that, having been forced into a marriage, those women are more vulnerable to specific types of abuse than the general population.

Domestic Abuse

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 11th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend will know that I would introduce the Domestic Abuse Bill into this House tomorrow if I could, but a number of pieces of legislation need to get through this House. It will probably be early in the new year but I will press—the Leader of the House is sitting there—for that Bill to come to this House as soon as is practicably possible. On the question of children, my noble friend will know that children will benefit from a number of measures in the Domestic Abuse Bill, including—I note what I said in the last answer—the fact that it ensures that they are now recognised as victims in their own right. The Designate Domestic Abuse Commissioner has been appointed to encourage good practice in, among other things, the provision of protection and support for children affected by domestic abuse.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I chair the National Commission on Forced Marriage. When the Government look at funding, will they take into account the special needs of victims of forced marriage, some of whom suffer domestic abuse from their families rather than their partners?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I am very happy to take back that suggestion from the noble and learned Baroness as we move forward with this.

Project for the Registration of Children as British Citizens v Home Office

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 19th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend that we do not underestimate the significance of the issue of fees for child citizenship and registration as a British citizen to both Members of the House and to those affected. As I said earlier, we keep those fees under review.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

Are those children whose families do not have enough money to pay for British citizenship to which they are entitled liable to be deported when they become 18?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble and learned Baroness is so fixated on what I was going to reply that she is stuck to the spot.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I am so sorry.

Covid-19: Child Trafficking

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 29th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, would the Government consider rolling out across the country child guardians for the benefit of the foreign children who have been trafficked here?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble and learned Baroness will probably know that we have already rolled them out in a third of local authorities in England and Wales. That work is progressing, starting with those areas with the highest need in requiring independent guardians for children who have been trafficked.

Asylum System

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

In an ideal world, we would have been doing face-to-face interviews, but for the simpler cases, if you like, virtual interviews have been more efficient. That is not right in every case, but clearly, we should make the most of our digital capabilities where it is appropriate.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister see whether the Government will consider giving to victims of modern slavery who have passed successfully through the NRM similar rights to those of refugees?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble and learned Baroness will know that a victim of modern slavery is not necessarily a refugee or someone who needs asylum; many of them are UK nationals. What is important is that victims of modern slavery receive the right support and help to get them out of the situation in which they have become embroiled.

Covid-19: Human Trafficking

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 16th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I mentioned earlier some of the funding mechanisms that will be available. My noble friend is absolutely right that we have seen an unprecedented increase in the number of potential victims of modern slavery being referred to the NRM—in 2019, it was 52% more than in 2018. In response to that, we have surged resources into caseworking teams to ensure that those victims receive the decisions and the support that they need in a timely fashion.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, during the Covid-19 pandemic, might it be a sensible move, as well as a way of saving money, not to put children through the NRM?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with the noble and learned Baroness in the sense that we have paused an awful lot of the processes that might be in place for people seeking asylum. Protecting people during this period and making sure they get the support that they need is at the heart of our endeavours. She has a point—children need specific intervention. I am not entirely sure what the position is with regard to NRM, but the Home Office is very focused on supporting children who might be vulnerable.

Violence Against Women

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend is right that without a multiagency approach—in other words, government departments coming together—it will be very difficult to tackle this issue. She will know about the troubled families programme, which brings together a lot of different agencies; indeed, through that programme we have unearthed far higher levels of domestic abuse than we first thought. I can also tell her that the Home Office, the MoJ and the MHCLG have all announced funding to support victims. We must work together as a whole Government to tackle this issue.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of the National Commission on Forced Marriage. Will the guidance suggested set out that violence to women includes those in forced-marriage situations, some of whom are under 18 and may need rather different help?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness is quite right: if they are under 18, they are still children, which makes the issue of forced marriage all the worse. I shall go back regarding the issue of guidance. I cannot say today what will be in it, but I will get some information from my colleagues and will certainly come back to the noble and learned Baroness on that.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there is every justification for looking into some of the institutional failings of the past, which damaged the lives of those children affected. Let us not forget, there have been 4,024 convictions since 2016 for historic allegations of child sexual abuse.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest: I was briefly the first chairman of this inquiry, I wrote a report for the diocese of Chichester and gave written evidence to the inquiry. My view is that the inquiry is doing a good job, but what progress has been made on the review of the criminal injuries compensation scheme, which was a recommendation of the interim report?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I will have to give the noble and learned Baroness an update on that as I do not, in all honesty, know where it is up to. I agree with her that the inquiry is doing a good job. It is good that the public hearings are due to conclude at the end of this year.

British Citizenship

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Like my noble friend, I have tried to assist the many noble Lords who have asked me questions about immigration, citizenship, et cetera. They are complex, and Members of your Lordships’ House have shown me just how complex they are, not least my noble friend. I am glad that her case was resolved, in the end. But it is important that, to become a British citizen, you demonstrate your commitment to this country. Some of our rules have been in place for years, but I accept that there are many different avenues that one might take for the various types of access arrangements.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

Could it not be simplified?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am sure my right honourable friend the Home Secretary will consider that in due course.

Hate Crime: Homophobic and Misogynistic Attacks

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 11th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As I explained to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, the Law Commission is looking into where there are gaps and consulting widely on this. When a review is done, it is always good to ensure that you have enough material from consultation and that wider views are taken into account when reviewing any sort of line of legislation. The commission will report back next year.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, why can the Government not get the sentences equal before the Law Commission reports? That could be done in any of the other legislation that comes through.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness is quite right. Sentencing can be uplifted for a number of different strands of hate crime and aggravating factors can enable that sentencing uplift.

British Citizenship: Children

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 10th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what will the Government do about young children with British citizenship whose parents have been deprived of British citizenship? It will be extraordinarily difficult to look after the children if you do not also look after the mother.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness is right to point out the issue of the needs of children. If a child finds itself in, say, al-Hawl refugee camp, that is a difficult situation to be in, and quite often their parents have put them in that situation. As I said, humanitarian assistance is available, and we have put a significant amount of money into providing that assistance.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 31st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness will know that the ETJ will cover offences committed by a UK citizen against someone abroad. I am certainly happy to have a conversation with the noble Baroness on extending the ETJ. I do not want to speak for my noble friend, but I am not sure that she would have committed to extending it.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I am the chairman of a forced marriage commission. Do the Government recognise that in forced marriages there is often domestic abuse, that the many victims of forced marriage who suffer domestic abuse need special care, and that the current refuges for them are not necessarily all that satisfactory?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right; I have seen this for myself. I have seen people who enter into a marriage—not necessarily a forced one—and have no leave to remain. They cannot speak English, and their passports have been taken from them. I absolutely recognise the point that the noble and learned Baroness makes, and look forward to discussing it during the passage of the Bill.

Visas: Forced Marriages

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 5th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that in my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, I clarified the position on what appeared in the newspaper. In fact, it was the other way round: in the majority of cases it was proactive referral by UKVI to the Forced Marriage Unit, which looked at them as part of its safeguarding work, as opposed to visas being granted where there was a reluctant sponsor. To conflate the issue with Windrush is quite wrong because we are talking about two entirely different things. We discussed Windrush yesterday. Successive Governments have been to blame—if blame is the right word—for what went wrong with the Windrush generation. As the Home Secretary has repeatedly said, he wants to work with other parties to put right the wrongs that happened over decades.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the large number of girls involved who are under 18? Will the Government review the fact that parents can give consent when girls are aged 16 to 18 and therefore can be part of this situation? Will the Government look at this and see whether it ought to continue?

Children: Gangs

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 10th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am sure we can work on some of the initiatives in Glasgow. The noble Lord described it as a disease. These issues are multifactorial and include sociological and psychological factors depending on people’s experiences, particularly their early life experience. Tackling this preventively from a very young age is part of the answer.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, first, I congratulate the Government on the work they are doing on county lines. Is the Minister aware that there is very patchy communication between the agencies and that all too many of the very young children—the 12 and 13 year-olds—are ending up in the local youth court instead of being treated as victims?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness points to a very serious issue. County lines, as the phrase suggests, crosses different local authorities and different police forces, and therefore some sort of continuity of effort is needed here.

Trafficked Children: Asylum

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is certainly the Government’s intention to make decisions as quickly as possible. I totally concur with the noble Baroness that if we have a vulnerable child in our care, we should make decisions about them as quickly as possible.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can get the Government, particularly the Home Office, to reconsider the removal of children who are victims of trafficking at the age of 18.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As the noble and learned Baroness will know, victims of trafficking are not necessarily coming into this country for an asylum route. Indeed, many of the children who are trafficked are from the UK, so it is correct that when a child reaches the age of 18, should they be from another country, their immigration status is reconsidered.

Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and right reverend Lord gives a figure of 14%, but two independent NGOs have collated statements and found that between 32% and 50% of eligible companies have produced a statement. Clearly there is further to go. The legislation is relatively new. On compiling a register, we have considered in detail whether the Government could publish a list of businesses covered by the Modern Slavery Act. It is not easy to do so because it is not currently possible to filter the databases of Companies House by turnover size, but the Government are looking at this.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, it is not easy to find out whether the companies that are required to provide the annual report are complying. The companies we are concerned about operate right across the world, not just in India, although India is clearly very important. The Government really do need to take some action to ensure that there is pressure on these companies to comply with the Modern Slavery Act.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, part of the pressure is from the public, because the public are more and more concerned that their clothes are produced ethically—or whatever goods and services. The Home Secretary can apply for a court injunction requiring businesses to comply. If they still refuse, they will be liable to an unlimited fine for contempt of court.

Children: Refugees

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, first, I say to the noble Lord that we continue to work with our partners in Europe under the scheme to transfer children where we can. However, as he will know and as I have said to the House before, we cannot just go into countries and take children. It might be helpful to explain the broader context in which we operate. In 2016 the UK settled more refugees from outside Europe than any other EU state. According to Eurostat figures, over a third of people resettled in the EU came to the UK. We have granted asylum or another form of leave to over 9,000 children in the past year—over 42,000 since 2010.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing about children who have a right under the Dublin III agreement, particularly in the Calais and Dunkirk areas?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we continue to work with the French Government to ensure that those children are also transferred.

Immigration Act 2016

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government have consulted fully with local authorities. We held roadshows up and down the country. The FOI response to which the noble Baroness has referred talks, I think, about spare capacity for 784 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. These figures are entirely at odds with our consultation and do not reflect capacity among local authorities. Over recent weeks and months there has been a lot of misunderstanding about the purpose of the 0.07% threshold to which I assume she is referring. It is neither a target for the number of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children that we would expect to see in a local authority area, nor is it an assessment of a local authority’s capacity to accommodate unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. It is an indication of when a local authority is caring for a disproportionate number of such children, as some local authorities are, and when we would expect to see them transfer away from that authority. Drawing conclusions about local authority capacity by automatically assigning them from their 0.07% threshold is a flawed methodology which fails to reflect existing capacity.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the co-chairman of the report on unaccompanied minors in Europe, which our committee launched last week. I want to make two points. Northern Ireland and Scotland have both offered to take children but we were told in evidence that neither of them has been invited to take any at all. I hope the Minister has read our report, which talks about children being teargassed daily by the riot police in northern France and the terrible conditions in both Italy and Greece. I wonder if she and others in the Government can see that, according to the evidence we received, no effort whatever is being made to identify Dubs children in Calais and Dunkirk or indeed in Italy and Greece. Moreover, no effort at all is being made to identify any of the children with an entitlement under Dublin III. This is a catastrophe for these children and I feel passionate about it. However, nothing seems to be being done.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I recognise the passion of the noble and learned Baroness, and she and I have talked about this on a number of occasions. I have read her report. The first thing I should say about the treatment by police of children in France is a point I have made in the House before: the prime responsibility for unaccompanied children in Europe lies with the authorities of the countries in which the children are present. We continue to work with our European and international partners to reach a solution to the migrant crisis, and the UK has contributed significantly to that in hosting, supporting and protecting the most vulnerable children. We have a very strong track record on co-operating with France to manage the situation in Calais and protect the shared border. The safest way for eligible children to be transferred to the UK is by claiming asylum in France. Children with qualifying family members in the UK will be transferred to the UK to claim asylum where it is in their best interests to do so. Also, more children will be referred under Section 67 of the Immigration Act 2016.

Child Refugees

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 29th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I do not decry what the noble Baroness is saying, but as I have just said to the noble Lord, if a child is in France, that child is the responsibility of the French authorities. I have said this many times and I reiterate it now. But I would also say to her that this Government stand willing to help in the process of resettling children. On the point about the demolition of the camps and children wandering around France, I would love the noble Baroness to give me any evidence she has of that. She knows that I respond to and follow up on the emails she sends to me, and I am happy to do that, but evidence is what we need. We can then work with our counterparts. However, we cannot just go into France and start moving and removing children as we would want.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I have been to Calais and have talked to priests there who on a daily basis are being teargassed along with children aged under 18, and some of them as young as 12. Do the Government understand that that is happening? I also understand that Northern Ireland has not been asked to take any of these children but I gather has expressed a willingness to do so.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, if children are being teargassed, that is very regrettable and I will certainly follow up the point made by the noble and learned Baroness because we would not want that to be happening. Obviously the latter point is a matter for Northern Ireland and we are grateful for any resettlement activity which takes place there. Some 440 people have been resettled in Northern Ireland under the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement programme. Clearly that is voluntary but we would welcome anything in addition to it.

Male Abusive Behaviour

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I pay tribute to Vera Baird because I know she does an awful lot of work in this area. The first thing I looked at when I was at DCLG was the whole area of domestic violence—the refuges and the prevention models. The noble Baroness is absolutely right: it is important to keep these refuges open so that no woman is turned away. In fact, there was a significant announcement in the Budget today about underpinning our VAWG strategy, but those interventions to stop domestic violence happening in the first place are also very important.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, is it not important that violence against women that is shown on the net should be dealt with?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness makes a very good point. It is what children see—their experiences of what is normal—that will shape the behaviour of young boys and young girls. Young girls may lose the value in themselves and young boys may not value girls as they grow up. The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right, and work has been done in this sphere over the course of this Government and the previous Government.

Operation Midland

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I preface my comments by saying that the sale of a building is not, in itself, the most important aspect of those issues. However, what the noble Lord says about the quality of leaders and officers in the Metropolitan Police, and the police in general, is very important. We will have further debates on this. Certainly, the training and leadership of police forces that protect the public are of the utmost importance.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, it is patently unsatisfactory that the full report is not produced for the public to read. Should not the Home Office urge the commissioner of police to make it public?

Calais Camp: Lone Children

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 10th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with the right reverend Prelate; children are at the top of our agenda. It is not just the Prime Minister who thinks that; I think that we all agree that children, especially vulnerable children, are our top priority. That is why we are working together, by putting additional funding into this, speeding up the process and engaging with officials in the French Government on a daily basis.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, we are told that the French authorities are proposing to close the Calais Jungle camp some time in the next month or two, so the question of the children is extremely urgent. I fail to understand what is holding it up now. If there is a dedicated team and everybody else, who on earth is not pulling their finger out?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness asks a very pertinent question. As we have heard, the camp closure will begin soon. We have put in place various processes—as I have just said, we are speeding up transfers. We are working with NGOs and others to make sure that the process is speeded up. No unaccompanied child—or any other child—should be in the Calais camp. That is why we are redoubling our efforts, together with the French, to get those children to safety.

Living with Difference

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 18th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, on behalf of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government note this report and its contribution to the debate on faith in Britain today. We continue to celebrate the role of faith in society, with a particular emphasis on co-operation between different faiths as a way of breaking down barriers and strengthening communities. The report raises a number of questions for a range of organisations. I will ensure that all government departments consider the recommendations relevant to their individual policies.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

I thank the noble Baroness. I declare an interest as chairman of the commission. Will the Government consider organising, or allowing to be organised, a meeting of senior civil servants from the relevant departments to discuss some of the implications of our report?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am certainly happy to volunteer my services, together with officials from different departments, and meet with the noble and learned Baroness.

Assisted Dying Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Friday 7th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, before we continue, may I refer noble Lords to the Companion, which suggests that, in debates where there are no formal time limits, contributions are kept to 15 minutes?

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I should like to continue on this subject of the law. I was in the Bland case in the Court of Appeal. As President of the Family Division, at one stage I tried nearly all the permanent vegetative state cases. On the assumption that this Bill is passed, it seems to me critical and essential that the court should have an input. I would prefer the version of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, but, speaking as a former judge, I would say that the version of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, would actually require the judge to take account of all the relevant factors. I would be astonished if the High Court did not wish to confirm that it is satisfied, and that is a high standard. The judge would have the power to require, for instance, a psychiatrist or other medical opinion, if the judge was not satisfied that the patient—we are talking about the rights of the patient—had the full capacity necessary to make this absolutely crucial decision.

As to how the case would be tried, it would likely go before a Family Division registrar. It would go before a High Court judge. In my day, I was able to try cases on the day that the problem came before the High Court and it was able to go to the Court of Appeal on the same day if it was sufficiently urgent. I would expect the President of the Family Division to treat all these cases with the utmost seriousness and would see it as crucial that they be heard as quickly as possible. It would be a matter for the Government of the day as to whether legal aid were given, but in a matter of this absolutely enormous importance as to whether somebody is entitled and has the capacity to make the decision that they wish to end their life, I would think it quite shocking if legal aid were not granted.

Child Abuse: Police Investigations

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

In terms of harm, I would say that “most harmful” applies to children in immediate danger of being harmed.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what training are the police being given in relation to child abuse, whether it is porn images or the appalling stories of Rotherham and others right across the country? It is perfectly obvious that the police are not being trained at the moment. What is being done about it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

There are highly trained officers within the NCA. The CEOP officers, of which there are 141 at the moment, are highly trained in terms of safeguarding and in terms of image viewing on the internet. I can provide the noble and learned Baroness with more information on that subsequently.