Sentences of Imprisonment for Public Protection

Debate between Baroness Burt of Solihull and Lord Timpson

Monday 24th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

On 31 December 2024, 695 unreleased IPP prisoners were 10 years or more over tariff, representing 67% of this population. Data on the number of recalled IPP offenders who have served 10 years or more over their tariff is not centrally collated. On 30 September 2024, 2,320 IPP offenders on licence were 10 years or more over tariff, representing 80% of those in the community. On 1 November, 1,742 licences were terminated following the commencement of reforms in the Victims and Prisoners Act 2024.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for his Answer; I know how hard he is working on this issue. I appreciate that some of the data I asked for is not collected. Nevertheless, the fact remains that almost 700 IPP prisoners who have never been released from prison have been locked up for more than a decade longer than their original sentence indicated. For most of them, this is because their mental health is in such a terrible state. Does the Minister accept that, in many of these cases, it was the IPP sentence itself that broke their mental health, trapping them in a self-perpetuating nightmare? Does he agree that resentencing these prisoners with appropriate safeguards and help is the only way to rid this country of this terrible stain on our justice system?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question and the interest she has in this important area. I assure her and all noble Lords that I am not giving up on anyone. So far as mental health of IPP prisoners and all prisoners goes, the Chief Medical Officer has agreed to include consideration of the IPP sentence in his independent review of offender health this year, which I am really pleased about. On resentencing, public safety has to come first. The Parole Board is expert in deciding who is safe to be released and who is not. That is why the IPP action plan is absolutely vital, and we need to make sure we keep making good progression on it.

Prison Capacity

Debate between Baroness Burt of Solihull and Lord Timpson

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Having somewhere to live when someone is released from prison is vital, and we are planning to continue with all the schemes that are currently in place, including the 84 nights that are scheduled for people who leave prison. One of my concerns is that recently, because capacity has been so constrained, hard-working prison and probation staff have not always been able to manage the transition from prison to the community as well as I would like to see in future.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the noble Lord to his new role and to this House. His considerable experience and reputation go before him and he is highly respected as a man who lives his values. Having said that, it has to be said that he has inherited a crock, and I am afraid it is not a crock of gold.

The Minister paints a truly horrific picture of the situation now facing this country and we on this side are looking forward to working with him constructively over the next parliamentary term. In time, we can further reduce the prison population by implementing the recommendations of the Justice Select Committee and conducting a resentencing exercise for the unfortunate indeterminate sentence prisoners still stuck in a limbo of uncertainty. Will the IPP sentencing review include indeterminate sentence prisoners? I know that is perhaps a discussion for another day, but right now we can do little other than agree to the release, with suitable support and safety conditions, of certain categories of prisoners who are towards the end of their tariff to make room for other individuals who present more of a threat to society.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am well aware of the issues around indeterminate sentences for public protection. I know that matter is of great interest to noble Lords. It would not be appropriate to make changes in relation to IPP prisoners, because they are a different order of public protection risk. I am determined to make more progress on IPP prisoners. As I say, we will build on the work done by the previous Government. We worked constructively with the previous Administration on sensible changes that could be made in the safest possible way for the public. Those changes were on the licence period and the action plan, and we will crack on with that as a new Government. Any changes that we make to the regime for that type of sentence, which has rightly been abolished, must be done while balancing the public protection risk, which we would never take lightly.