Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Baroness Burt of Solihull and Charlie Elphicke

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Charlie Elphicke]

The law requires change. The avoidance might be legal, but HMRC is understood to be investigating a number of those companies. Because of taxpayer confidentiality, we will not know for sure until such time as a case comes before a court.

Let us take the case of eBay. Tax of some £50 million should have been paid on UK profits before avoidance, but eBay actually paid £3.4 million. Facebook should have paid £14 million, but actually paid £400,000. That level of avoidance is unacceptable. This poisoned legacy—the total failure to reform our tax system—left to us by the previous Labour Government is unacceptable. I might, if I am generous, put it down to their obsession with pursuing the prawn cocktail circuit for so many years, in the fear that if they took on business and ensured that it paid its fair share of tax, they would be less friendly with business and have less credibility.

[Lorely Burt]

I totally agree with every word that the hon. Gentleman has said so far. Does he share my concern that companies operating in developing countries should consider how they pay tax through transfer payments? Developing countries pay more—suffer worse—through not getting those payments from companies that extract their wealth than we get from our ability to tax.

[Charlie Elphicke]

I thank my hon. Friend for her point. My point, in this case, is that we should widen the anti-avoidance measures in the Bill for our own UK territory to ensure that taxes are paid on trading profits made here. I am not making a case for an extension by proxy of the UK’s substantial international aid budget, which is 0.7% of gross domestic product. If one wants to make the case that it should be more than 0.7%, as ActionAid does, I am sure that they will make it, but I do not want to focus on that issue. I am much more interested in securing our own tax base so that we can get our deficit down by widening the tax avoidance measures in the Bill and extending them to a wider and greater reform.

Living Standards

Debate between Baroness Burt of Solihull and Charlie Elphicke

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

I want to talk particularly about the importance of getting the country going in order to raise living standards. I pressed the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) on what Labour’s growth plan was and how much it would cost. I will happily accept any intervention from Opposition Members on this, but it seems to me that it would cost billions. How would it be funded? It is clear that it would be funded by debt––more borrowing.

We have narrowly avoided suffering from the debt storm throughout Europe, but were we to give way on the fiscal rectitude that we have shown and to go to the markets and borrow to fund Labour’s extravagant growth plan, we would be at risk of higher interest rates. Let us bear in mind that every one percentage point increase in interest rates means another £1,000 on the average mortgage.

Painful though the programme to cut overspending has been for so many people throughout the country, the most important achievement—the most important tax cut, if we like—has been the reduction in the cost of borrowing. It has helped so many hard-pressed families, including those in my constituency, to muddle through the recession as best they can, in a situation in which global inflation from imported goods, such as petrol and so on, has been higher and has put pressure on living standards, as every constituency MP understands all too well.

These are very difficult times not just for my constituents in Dover and Deal, but for everyone in the country who finds themselves without a large pay rise at work and facing rising global food prices. It has been a very difficult year, as the OBR makes clear. This year, average inflation has been 4.5%, yet average earnings have not kept pace. It has been difficult, and it has been a squeeze, but world prices, including in commodities and food, are something over which no Government have any great control. I, like my hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr Syms), have not heard from the Opposition any clear plan for what they would do differently to deal with the situation, but it does get better next year as those things work their way through the system.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

My hon. Friend paints a picture of the difficulties that families throughout the country face, and I fully understand the points that he makes. Will he speculate on how much worse the situation would be if, having entered government with a warning on our triple A credit rating, we had not taken those necessary steps? We would be in the same situation as Italy or even Greece. How many more families would be out of work, and how much smaller would be the amount of money to go round?

[Charlie Elphicke]

I thank my hon. Friend for that powerful intervention, and she is absolutely right. The point has been made that, when we entered office, we had similar interest rates to Italy, but its rate is now up at about 8% and we are basically parallel with German borrowing. If we were turned by the Opposition into—dare I say it?—an Italian job, we would find that interest rates shot up for the average home owner and small business borrower, and that we faced serious difficulties and serious economic decline. In fact, we are not in recession and we are still growing.