House of Lords: Numbers and Eligibility

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 9th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord cannot resist it, can he? I do not think “taking people out” is quite the language we want to use in the House. As he knows, I have been trying to address across the House the point he makes on leave of absence. I previously proposed a limit on the number of leaves of absence a Member of this House can take without reference to the Sub-Committee on Leave of Absence. That did not find favour with the party opposite, but I still think it is a good thing to look at and I will take that away and look at leave absence.

This is not about doing anything to harm the Official Opposition. The noble Lord pulls a face at me, but if he is saying that his party cannot be an effective Opposition without hereditary Peers in the House, it says a lot about the rest of his Members. I do not agree with him; I think the party opposite is fully able to mount effective opposition. Even after the removal of all the hereditaries, his party will still be the largest party in this House.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

The House of Lords badly needs radically updating if it is going to be a fit revising House for modern Britain. The Government seem to be starting with a piecemeal approach, so when the hereditaries are gone, would the next logical step not be to dispense with the Lords Spiritual, an equally anachronistic body who would otherwise stick out in this place like a sore thumb?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

This issue was raised in the House of Commons, and an amendment was tabled by a Conservative Member of Parliament to remove the Bishops. It got a very small vote in the Commons and was rejected; I have not detected an appetite for that in your Lordships’ House, either. On the noble Baroness’s more serious point about a piecemeal approach, we should have a proper discussion about moving forward. I am not one of those who wants a big bang reform—that is what led to inertia and no reform taking place. I think there is an appetite for gradual reform of this House.

International Trade Opportunities

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Mobarik, on securing this debate today and all noble Lords, who have made very thoughtful and perceptive contributions, including the noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, who I will henceforth think of as our man in Havana on account of his exploits in our now mostly gone world of international trade. I now know more than I ever wanted about the Patagonian toothfish. We have heard a lot about the difficulties of renegotiation and about the gloom and doom, including how the pound is down to a 31-year low from the noble Lord, Lord Green, in his excellent and thoughtful contribution.

This is very unhelpful when our balance of payments deficit is so large that we are spending more to buy imports than we are reaping in improved attractiveness of our exported goods. We have moved from being the fifth to the sixth-largest economy in the world— displaced by the French, which is galling in more ways than one.

We have to look at our place in the world from a new perspective, as many contributors to the debate have done this morning. We no longer have the might of the largest market in the world on our side when it comes to negotiating power, as my noble friend Lord Stoneham mentioned. Like it or not, we have to strike out at new or at least underdeveloped markets and, to get those markets to take us seriously, we have to have a plan. Indeed, it would have given more comfort to Britain’s industry if we had had an industrial strategy in the first place, but Mr Javid, the Business Secretary, apparently does not like the words “industrial” and “strategy” in the same sentence. The noble Lord, Lord Bhattacharyya, echoed this in his excellent contribution and talked about the importance of manufacturing and innovation, both of which are very endangered amid the possible outcomes ahead.

It is time to stop reacting and to start planning to help industry to cope with the changed economic landscape that it finds itself in. The option suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Patten, of going straight to the World Trade Organization in two years if we have not got a deal, would be disastrous for British manufacturing. A 10% tariff on cars and 12% tariff on clothing and food do not bear thinking about.

I am sure I was not the only Member of your Lordships’ House to experience dismay to discover that, as far as trade was concerned, there was no post-Brexit plan in place from the Brexiteers. Bold statements like, “We’ll soon have our own, better deals with the rest of the world” were not, it seems, backed up by anything other than rhetoric. The world we face, and the opportunities that exist within it, may not be quite as enticing as they might have appeared from the other side of the pre-Brexit fence.

Our Chancellor has laid great store by doing trade with China. Trade with China is rapidly expanding, but still constitutes only 3.7% of our exports, and growth in China is slowing, as we know. India, another great focus of government optimism, constitutes only 1.7% of our exports. Several Members mentioned trade with Commonwealth countries and the importance of reinforcing the links that we have with our friends in the Commonwealth. To look on the positive side, at least there is lots of room for improvement.

Let us look at countries where our balance of trade is positive: Australia, South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Switzerland—in EFTA—and of course our good old pals, the US of A, our largest single trading partner. I for one would be very willing to put my best suit on and go to any country to proudly sell the British brand. In the coalition, we boasted that no Minister was allowed out of this country without a business brief in their little red box. We need the same get-go focus today, right now more than ever. The noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, in his excellent contribution, said he likes a crisis and that it galvanises business to make changes. I hope it galvanises the Government as well, because otherwise we could be in a great deal of difficulty.

We must have a plan, but the plan needs to take account of what kind of deal we will be doing with our erstwhile European partners. Some of the other trading models which give a degree of access to the single market impose restrictions on trade deals with other non-EU countries. The noble Lord, Lord Green, gave an excellent explanation of the models and analysis of the situation, and I conclude from his comments that none of them is as good as what we have at the moment. The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, included in his contribution the lost opportunities in public procurement, alongside a number of other very thoughtful and perceptive comments.

As we will become the EU’s largest trading partner—a bigger trader even than America—I am sure we will have a lot of negotiating power. The deal that we will be able to obtain should be unique, not least because we buy more from the rest of Europe than we sell to it. Several noble Lords have made the point that it is very much in its interests to trade with us too. In my view, and in the view of my party, access to the single market is the most important thing we should be striving for. But here is the quandary: we need a plan—fast—to restore confidence and our attractiveness in the eyes of investors, but equally we need access to the single market, otherwise our attractiveness to non-EU countries aiming to invest here, at least in part to gain access to the single market, is lost. It is the old chicken-and-egg question.

Business thrives on certainty, and right now that is in very short supply. The two major political parties are so busy tearing themselves apart that their focus on the needs of their country has been lost. Who would have imagined, six months ago, two months ago or even two weeks ago, that things would have ever come to such a state? However, there is one political party whose focus has not been lost; one party that is undivided in our appreciation of the need of our country for stability and certainty. We know what we stand for: a Britain strong in Europe and strong in the world. We say that our priority must be to remain within the single market, so companies can have confidence to stay here, invest here and trade from here. We say to the Government: do not pour what money we have into tax breaks for the rich by reducing corporation tax, when it could be put to better use supporting British business by bolstering the British Business Bank and supporting innovation, business growth, and those businesses that may not any longer attract funding from even more risk-averse banks. As long as we retain access to the single market, Britain is the best place in the world to trade with and from. We have the flexible, skilled workforce, we have a “can do” attitude towards supporting business and we are still the best place in the world to do business.

Apprenticeships

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I am not sure that I agree with the noble Lord but, looking forward, we are clear that younger apprenticeships matter a lot. That is why the system tries to encourage them. We also want to give the younger people the jobs, without stopping older employees being able to apply for apprenticeships as well, but I agree that the cliff edge between the younger apprenticeships and the older apprentice is an important issue.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, the apprenticeship levy that is coming in next year is in danger of having some unintended consequences. Imposing a cap on what can be claimed per higher apprenticeship may drive employers towards more low-level apprenticeships, so that they can claim more of their own money back. Making the levy exclusively for apprenticeships may deter them from offering a wider range of training opportunities for their staff. Do the Government recognise those dangers, and what are they going to do to address them?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

We will be publishing further proposals on funding and the logistics of this scheme in June. I note the noble Baroness’s points but we should focus on apprenticeships. I am a great one for focusing on an area and getting it done right, rather than trying to extend it right across the board of training, as she suggests. But of course we can learn from our experience.

Adult Education: Part-time Attendance

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the number of adults attending part-time higher or further education classes while maintaining a career.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

The department does not record the employment status of those in part-time, further and higher education. However, this Government are committed to providing learning opportunities to those of all ages and circumstances. Advanced learner loans are now available for adults who wish to retrain and study for a new career. We have been taking steps to address the decline in part-time higher education by introducing a new maintenance package. Apprenticeships allow individuals to train while progressing their careers, and we are aiming for 3 million more apprenticeship starts by 2020.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

I am grateful for that Answer, although I think it would be appropriate for the Government to count the number of part-time students. Many noble Lords in this Chamber will remember the days when night school was a major instrument of social mobility, yet today night school has almost disappeared and the number of adults on part-time courses has plummeted. What can the Government do to increase the availability of part-time HE and FE courses, including night school, and to encourage people in work to better themselves in this old-fashioned but tried and trusted way?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

This Government are taking a number of steps to help to encourage part-time learning. For instance, we will be introducing maintenance loans for part-time students for the first time, and we have expanded second degree student support funding for those who want to study a STEM subject. We have also expanded the advanced learner loan system, so from 2016-17 learners aged 19 and over studying at levels 3 to 6 will be able to access that support. We are doing what we can to provide people who want to study part-time with the support to do so.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I recall this question being raised previously with the Prime Minister. If I may, I will endeavour to establish what reply the Prime Minister subsequently gave, and ensure that it also reaches the hon. Lady.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Reputable temporary employment agencies are being undercut by disreputable ones which incorporate travel and subsistence in basic remuneration. The Government are taking action to tackle these agencies, but further, faster action needs to be taken before more reputable agencies go out of business. May we please have a debate on what can be done in this unfortunate circumstance?

[Mr Lansley]

I will see what our hon. Friends at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills are able to advise in relation to that. My recollection is that the rules on what is counted in the minimum wage are very clear about these matters, but I will take further advice.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Tom Brake]

I am afraid that I cannot guarantee my hon. Friend a statement, but I can offer him the opportunity to raise the matter at Health questions on Tuesday. He has made serious allegations about the composition of the clinical reference group and it would be appropriate for the Secretary of State for Health to respond.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Principled employment agencies throughout the United Kingdom are suffering and some are closing because of the practices of unprincipled employment agencies, which exploit staff by underpaying them and incorporating expenses into their remuneration, thereby undercutting the principled agencies that pay people properly. May we have a debate on how the rules could be changed to stop that unfair practice?

[Tom Brake]

I thank my hon. Friend for drawing my attention to that issue, of which I was not aware. I am sure that she will pursue the matter at Business, Innovation and Skills questions next Thursday. It might be possible for me to secure a response for her in the interim.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I have no knowledge of an immediate opportunity for such a debate, but I will of course look at whether there is any opportunity for an oral or written statement in due course.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Experiencing the death of a loved one is sadly inevitable for us all, but dealing with the funeral costs can come as a very unwelcome shock for many. The social fund payment has substantially devalued over the years and many families find themselves deep in debt despite being eligible for a payment. May we have a debate on how we can help families provide a dignified funeral for a loved one without adding further financial stress at a difficult time?

House of Lords Reform Bill

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Thomas Docherty]

Sorry, the House of Lords. However, there is no such provision to stop Members of the senate/House of Lords standing for the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly or, indeed, a local authority, or vice versa. That will lead, inevitably, to examples of what we have already seen in Scotland, where list MSPs have perched on the shoulders of constituency MSPs, cherry-picking casework and local issues. That will inevitably lead to a challenge to the authority of MSPs, Assembly Members and local authorities. I hope that the Government will reflect on that and make the appropriate changes when we reach the Committee stage, hopefully in the autumn.

The other thing that has been raised which genuinely needs to be addressed is the issue of Church of England bishops. I do not believe that the Church of England should sit in the House of Lords or the senate.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Hear, hear.

[Thomas Docherty]

The hon. Lady says, “Hear, hear,” yet she will be voting—and will continue to vote, I am sure, throughout the Bill’s progress—to keep the current arrangement. I am sticking to my principles; I am sorry that she has left hers outside. These are some of the issues that need to be examined.

[Lorely Burt]

Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the idea of a secular Parliament is wrong? If that is the case, I do not quite understand how that is in conflict with the idea of having an elected House of Lords. Perhaps he could enlighten me.

[Thomas Docherty]

I suggest that the hon. Lady should go and read her Liberal Democrat Bill.

There are many issues that have to be tackled in Committee. When the Minister replies, we would be grateful if he could set out when exactly he will table a committal motion. If that is not to happen in the very near future, I wonder whether he could confirm that the Government intend to take advantage of the gap that may be created to bring forward some other Bills that they had promised to bring forward. They include the private Member’s Bill, which I have helpfully tabled, to introduce a statutory register of lobbyists. Indeed, I know that the Minister is absolutely delighted—[Interruption] —that is why he is not paying attention—about the Bill that we have brought forward.

I will not keep the House any longer, because many Members wish to speak. I congratulate again those Members on both sides of the House who have wrestled with their positions, come to a sensible position and forced the Government to listen to the will of this House.

Committee on Standards and Committee of Privileges

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Lorely Burt?

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I just want to speak briefly to the amendment standing in my name on the revised code of conduct—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Lady is speaking to the wrong group of amendments. I have her down to speak in the next debate; that is why I hesitated when I called her.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Lorely Burt.

[Lorely Burt]

Regarding the amendment standing in my name and that of others on the revised code of conduct—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. We are not on the code of conduct yet; we are on the motions relating to the pay for Chairs of Select Committees and amendments to Standing Orders about standards and privileges. The code of conduct is the next business, and I will definitely call the hon. Lady at the right time—unless she wants to speak in this debate.

[Lorely Burt]

indicated dissent.

Code of Conduct

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As you rightly say, there are two motions on the Order Paper in my name. The first is the more important: it invites the House to approve a revised code of conduct. The House of Commons has long had resolutions covering conduct, but the idea of a code of conduct is relatively recent. It was not until 1995 that the House endorsed the principle of such a code. Since then, the code has been revised, in 2002 and in 2005. This is only the fourth version of the code since the first version was approved in 1996.

In approving the code of conduct today, the House will be setting the framework for the rules that will, I hope, last for the remainder of this Parliament and into the next. It is important to be clear about what the code is for. It is not a rule book that sets out precise instructions about what is and is not permissible in each case. As the commissioner has set out in a memorandum attached to our report, it is a document that establishes

“broad high-level principles in relation to the main areas of a Member’s conduct”

and

“provides a high-level statement of the specific rules to which Members will be held to account”.

All those who responded to the commissioner’s consultation supported this approach. Relying on detailed rules designed to meet every eventuality creates the risk that people will be encouraged to game the system. We have only to look at the creativity of tax avoidance schemes to see that. The code has a broader function: it helps us to ensure that we behave in a way that is consistent with the seven principles of public life—the Nolan principles, which are part of the code and which underpin its provisions. Where appropriate, the code is supplemented by more detailed statements of some of the rules, such as the guide to the rules, and the rules on the use of House facilities, but Members have ultimate responsibility for ensuring that they abide by the principles of the code.

The Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has the task of reviewing the code and making recommendations to the Committee. In 2002, the Committee on Standards in Public Life recommended that this should be done once in each Parliament. Following the expenses scandal, we judged it better to defer a review of the code in the last Parliament, in order to give Members of the new Parliament an opportunity to review it in the light of experience.

The commissioner’s memorandum to the Committee sets out all the changes to the code clearly, and explains the reasoning behind each of them. Our report focuses on all the provisions that we consider most significant. Broadly speaking, the commissioner’s proposals have the effect of making the code clearer and removing some repetitions and infelicities. The most significant proposed change is in paragraph 2 of the code. The current code

“does not seek to regulate what Members do in their purely private and personal lives”,

but it does extend to their wider public lives. Our proposal is that the code will no longer apply to Members’ wider public lives. As the commissioner points out, Members’ behaviour in their wider public life will be policed by other regulatory bodies, and there will be no need for the House to intervene.

There is an important proviso to the exclusion from the code of private and personal lives or wider public life. Those areas should be excluded unless

“such conduct significantly damages the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole or of its Members generally.”

That is not an entirely new provision. Paragraph 15 of the present code stipulates that Members should

“never undertake any action which would bring the House of Commons, or its Members generally, into disrepute.”

Personal life is currently excluded from the code, but a Member’s wider public life is not. The code will extend only to conduct which

“significantly damages the reputation and integrity of the Commons as a whole or of its Members generally”.

That is a very high hurdle indeed.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the amendment, which also stands in my name would prevent the commissioner from becoming involved in issues that were entirely private, while leaving scope for the investigation of breaches in which a personal matter crossed over into a political matter?

[Mr Barron]

The hon. Lady makes an interesting point. I was about to move on to talk about the amendment, and we can look at that question in a moment.

The amendment is also in the name of the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), and I am sure that he will explain it later in the debate. It raises significant questions. As I understand it, the amendment would mean that matters relating to a Member’s private and personal life which damaged the reputation and integrity of the House or of Members generally would remain within the scope of the code, but that the commissioner would be precluded from investigating complaints about such matters.

That raises a number of difficult questions. How would the boundaries of private and personal lives be defined? Would a matter remain private and personal if, for example, it had led to criminal behaviour or a failure to comply with civil obligations? Does something remain purely private and personal when it has been running all over the press and the internet for six or seven days? What is an investigation? Would the commissioner be precluded from giving a Member the chance to put his or her side of the story in private, rather than before the Committee as a whole? If the commissioner were unable to investigate extreme cases involving a Member’s personal and private life, would the Committee be expected to investigate them? If so, the Member’s safeguards would be reduced, as the Committee would investigate and pronounce sentence. I would feel uncomfortable about that. We are an adjudication Committee; we do not carry out investigations. The amendment seems to suggest that we might do so, however.

I understand colleagues’ fears that complaints could flood in about private lives, and that the commissioner might have to investigate matters that were properly no one’s business but that of the Member concerned. That is not what is intended. The House should have trust in the commissioner, in the Committee and in itself. Serious cases of a fall in standards should be decided on the Floor of the House, and not by the commissioner or by the Committee.

I am confident that the commissioner will not investigate purely private matters. If some future commissioner did so, I am confident that the Committee would take a robust approach, and that any serious sanction recommended by the Committee would come to the House, which would decide whether it was merited. I ask Members to have faith that all those involved, including the House, would use common sense if these measures were ever applied. I, for one, hope that they never will be.

The new provision is intended only for extreme circumstances, described by the commissioner as those in which a Member’s conduct in certain extremely limited circumstances is so serious and so blatant that it causes significant damage to the reputation of the House. In my judgment, it would be even more damaging to the reputation of the House and to the public’s confidence in the code of conduct—which is one of its key purposes—if the House were unable to take action to express its disapproval and uphold its standards in such circumstances.