Prison Capacity

Debate between Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone and Lord Timpson

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The situation with IPP prisoners is of great concern. I know that huge numbers of Members on both sides of the House care about it deeply, and I share that concern. IPP prisoners are not caught by the changes that we are putting forward. I have spent a lot of time talking to IPP prisoners inside and outside prison—in fact, in my previous role a number of IPP prisoners were colleagues—so I know the complexity of the issues involved. I also know that we as a House need to be determined to find all that we can do to support IPP prisoners and their families, and to make sure that we still maintain safety.

[Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Con)]

My Lords, will the Minister have an early meeting with his opposite number in the Department of Health, because the NHS has responsibility for prison health services? I regret that it is not always its highest priority, and the prisons are full, as the Minister will know, of people with long-term conditions, including physical and mental health problems. It is essential that they are given appropriate health understanding. Lastly, whenever he visits a prison, will he see whether he can find time to meet the chaplain? The chaplain has a unique role, supporting staff and families, as well as prisoners.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness. I often meet chaplains when I go into prisons. The last time I had a long meeting with one was in Belmarsh, at a small part of the prison where terminally ill prisoners were living. I thought the kindness and compassion that they had was wonderful to see. As for health commissioning in prisons, one of the things that I want to work on in this role is understanding how commissioning works in prisons, as well as supporting governors, who are often managing multi-million- pound contracts, so that they can ensure that things are working well and people are accountable for what they do.

Perhaps I could leave your Lordships with one thing that I have seen in the last few years to support people with challenges. It was in Wakefield prison, where an autism wing has been set up. When the prisoners were put in this unit, having been very disruptive and moved around the estate all the time, they were very calm. They stayed there and made the whole prison environment much better. I agree that a lot needs to be done.