Animal Welfare (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville and Lord Wigley

Wednesday 6th March 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I have a link with the British Veterinary Association. I should draw that to the attention of the Committee, although it is not a financial interest. This order provides significant recognition of the variation between the devolved authorities. That is right, and it already exists to a large extent. However, it requires effective co-ordination between the devolved authorities to ensure that where there are matters of common interest, they are brought together. Can the Minister give us some assurance that those mechanisms are in place or, to the extent that they need to be strengthened, they can be put into place in good time?

The second point I want to raise is with regard to the certificate of competence issued to slaughterers by other member states. As things stand, they must be recognised in the UK, but that will end for the reasons the Minister has mentioned. Such certificates of competence are required by slaughterhouses in the EU to show that individuals have been trained to the necessary standard to undertake animal stunning and killing. If these changes occur in the UK and there is a reciprocal change in the EU 27, will that affect the number of competent people who will be available to undertake the work? We are aware of the number of people from European countries who are working in these areas in the UK. If there is a danger of us losing some of the supply of these essential people, what proposals do the Government have to ensure that there is not a lapse in this area that could have an impact on animal welfare?

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her comprehensive introduction and I thank her and her officials for the briefing we had earlier this week. This is a very important statutory instrument that will move into UK law aspects of EU law pertaining to the welfare of animals while they are being transported, when they are at control posts and at the time of killing in slaughterhouses. Much of the SI refers to the need for those involved at all three stages to have a level of competence which ensures that animals do not suffer unnecessarily. I am sure we all want to ensure that that does not happen.

This SI gives the Government power to set their own standards on live transport and control posts once we leave the EU. The UK Government have always said that they will manage live exports once we leave the EU. The public are extremely interested in the issue of the live export of animals and it frequently comes up as one of the important Brexit matters. Can the Minister say whether the Government are likely to decide soon on this subject and what evidence they will consider when they make this decision?

I have a small number of minor questions to ask. In paragraph 2.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum, reference is made to the protection of animals during transport and related operations within the EU. However, it applies to the transport of animals which does not take place in connection with an economic activity. Would the transportation of racehorses to take part in a race—for instance, le Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe in France—come under the heading of an economic activity or would it would be classed as a sport? This is important as racehorses are a valuable commodity and their safety and well-being are paramount to their owners. I mention, just for interest, that the prize money for winning that race is €2,857,000.

The movement of animals to and from slaughter is a particular issue on the island of Ireland where consignments of animals can move from Ireland across the border to Northern Ireland for slaughter and then back again, and vice versa. This is something that needs to be addressed before Irish farmers find that they can no longer move their livestock.

On assembly centres, paragraph 2.7 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to animals being grouped together to form consignments. Domestic equidae—that is, donkeys—are specifically mentioned, and I wonder how often and how many donkeys are moved around either in the EU or in the UK.

There is reference in paragraphs 2.17, 2.18 and 12.2 to certificates of competence. After exit day the UK will not recognise certificates issued in the EU, and for its part the EU will not recognise those issued in the UK. As the noble Baroness has said, this is particularly in relation to the protection of animals at the time of killing. The change will result in a number of slaughterhouse employees who work in this country having to apply and be reassessed for their competency. The estimated cost of this per employee is around £225. We do not know exactly how many employees will be affected but that is not an insignificant sum of money and it could lead to some employees deciding to look for more conducive work. This will have an impact on the running of our slaughterhouses, as the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, has indicated.

As a result of a freedom of information request, we can see that the Government have failed to consider the impact of Brexit on sheep farmers. Sheep farmers are not wealthy people but their farms, especially hill farms, are the backbone of many of our remote rural communities. To run their businesses, farmers need certainty and the ability to plan far ahead, not just to next year but for five and 10 years ahead. They need to know what funding is available, what standards must be met and what tariffs need to be paid. There is a rumour that vast numbers of sheep will have to be slaughtered if they cannot be transported for export. This would have a catastrophic effect on sheep farmers in this country. Can the Minister comment on this issue?

Lastly, I understand that the report by the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, the Government’s independent science advisers, is likely to be presented this week. Can the Minister confirm that that is the case? As the Government have said that they would announce what they intend to do in England following that report, can the Minister give an indication of when there will be announcement and what it is likely to contain?

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville and Lord Wigley

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville]

I am sorry that the noble Countess is frustrated with me trying to link the environment to archaeology. However, Article 191 aims for a “high level” protection of the environment and is based on “preventive action” in which,

“environmental damage should as a priority be rectified at source and that the polluter should pay”.

The principles, including the polluter pays principle, the prevention principle and the precautionary principle, have all been the fundamental base of environmental—

[Lord Wigley]

I am sorry, my phone will not switch off.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am sure that the noble Baroness will realise that the interruption was not a personal allusion to her speech or its content.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville and Lord Wigley

Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, on Amendment 30, to which I have added my name. Coming as it does after the previous vital group of amendments on family law, this group is on a very different aspect of the impact of the Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, said, this issue was debated in the other place. On that occasion, there was much rhetoric about whether animals can feel pain and emotions. I can only assume that those who deny animal sentience have not visited the countryside in the spring. Surely those who see young lambs running around with each other, teasing, jumping and enjoying the thin sunshine and light breezes do not assume that that is not a natural activity. Similarly those who see sheep lamb in the depths of winter, as many do, and see their offspring shivering in the bitter winds and driving rain cannot imagine that they would not choose to find warmth and shelter if they could.

There are many farmers and experts present in your Lordships’ House, along with those like me who have no connection with animals other than that we live in the countryside. We will all have heard and suffered the pitiful lowing of a cow which has recently been separated from her calf, even though it may be in an adjoining field. This distressing calling for her calf can go on for hours and long into the night. She misses her calf and wishes everyone to know this so that eventually they may be reunited by her persistent calling. Farrowing pigs in metal arcs scattered around open fields are able to root around in the dirt and keep a watchful eye on their playful young in peace and tranquillity. This is a very far cry from farrowing crates, in which they do not have enough room to turn around and certainly cannot nurture their piglets.

Some noble Lords will think that I have a very rose-tinted view of the countryside in assuming that young animals enjoy playing, exploring and getting into mischief. Very many children’s books give human characteristics to animals. Beatrix Potter’s books are a very famous example. Some of these characterisations are fanciful, but others are based on observing at close quarters the behaviour of animals. Those who have met a small troop of escaped and inquisitive piglets marching down the middle of the road looking for adventure and trouble cannot deny that many of the fictional caricatures are based on fact. Lambs like to play, piglets like to investigate their surroundings and calves are attached to their mothers. The very process of suckling for their sustaining milk means a bond is formed.

As we move forward with Brexit, it is essential that the protocol on animal welfare is high up the list of government priorities. The United Kingdom is nothing if it is not a nation of animal lovers. I have often been surprised and alarmed, as an elected councillor, at the number of letters which people have written to me about animal welfare issues, including hunting, compared to the very few I would get about child cruelty and abuse—although this latter subject has recently moved up the consciousness of the nation, as demonstrated this afternoon. If the Government do not rigorously defend and transfer into domestic UK law Article 13 of Title II of the Lisbon Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, I fear this will be a very serious miscalculation of the mood of the country on this issue.

Organic farmers who have built up their award-winning herds over many decades prize the quality of the meat of their animals, which rightly fetches high prices in the marketplace. Butchers are keen to demonstrate to the restaurants and hotels they supply with meat which particular farmers it comes from. For their part, catering establishments which believe the quality of the raw meat is half the secret of a successful dish and to a steady flow of customers are also keen to list the source of the meat and fish on their menus.

Organic and other farmers keen to sell to quality outlets will tell you that the way in which their animals are slaughtered affects the flavour of the meat from the carcass. They believe an animal that is stressed at the point of slaughter will produce meat of an inferior quality to that of an animal that is slaughtered completely unaware of what is about to happen to it. This is very important to those farmers who have nurtured their animals to produce a high-quality product.

Standards of animal welfare in abattoirs and slaughterhouses are important, as is the presence of a qualified vet. Many of these vets currently come from EU countries. Can the Minister give reassurances to the Committee that, post Brexit, there will be sufficient trained veterinary officers to ensure robust standards of animal welfare at the point of slaughter? Those of your Lordships who are vegetarian or vegan will not be much interested in the quality of the meat which comes out of the abattoirs, but I believe they will care very much about the way in which the animals are treated as they come forward for slaughter.

Just as it is unacceptable for animals going for slaughter to be nervous and afraid, it is unnecessary and damaging and causes suffering to transport live animals to the EU for slaughter. If we have insufficient abattoirs in the UK to cope with our own animals, then we must increase that capacity. Just as we should not export live animals for slaughter, we must not accept live animals sent to the UK from the EU to be slaughtered here. As the saying goes, there is many a slip between cup and lip, and in the transfer of law from the EU into UK law, we must ensure that animal welfare is preserved at all costs. It is also important that high UK animal welfare standards are not undermined by cheaper imports produced to lower standards, as has already been referred to.

Whether it be the family pet pig that is coming for slaughter or a large herd of sheep, the way in which we treat animals says an awful lot about us as a caring society. In leaving the EU under Brexit we must preserve those principles of our culture which define us as a country. We will have a long time to regret it if we do not. I look forward to the Minister’s response to the issues raised in this debate.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I have my name to Amendment 30, which I will address in a moment, but before doing so I turn to the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. I am not sure whether she or other noble Lords heard the programme on Radio 4 at lunchtime yesterday about the problems ports in the Netherlands face in taking the steps needed to meet the 29 March deadline next year in due time. What came out of that is that it patently is not going to happen. It is not just that the resources are not available—there will be questions of resources and who pays for them, hence some of the duties that will be forthcoming—but it is a question of actually getting qualified vets. There are just not enough to do the job and there is no prospect of finding enough by the deadline, so it is not going to happen in that way. The reality of the situation facing us, and facing our partners within the EU, is starting to come home to roost.

I listened to the intervention a moment ago by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, on Northern Ireland. The mind boggles at the idea of vets chasing animals roaming around their own farm across the border. That is totally impractical. If we then say, “We accept that there will be an agreement between the north and south of Ireland with regard to the movement of animals that may be different to the relationships with the UK”, the question arises of the ports in the UK that will be taking these in. In any case, as the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, said, food coming in from the third world will need to be inspected. The thing just defies credibility.