Universal Credit Bill

Baroness Andrews Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading
Tuesday 22nd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for introducing the debate with such clarity. I also look forward with great anticipation to the maiden speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Shawcross-Wolfson. I look forward in a slightly different sense—with great regret—to the valedictory speech of my noble friend Lady Bryan of Partick. We will miss her, and I am sorry that she is leaving the House.

I support the Bill because it has found, in a difficult time and in a contested situation, an honourable way through these very difficult issues. It has also started to correct the distortion that has developed between the standard provision and the health-related elements of universal credit. It has begun to nudge towards what we all want to see: a more effective way of supporting people into work. That is the great prize.

I also welcome the fact that the reference to PIP has been removed and that it will now be in the guardianship of Sir Stephen Timms. There could not be a better person to look at PIP; he is a man of huge integrity and respect. He is very likely to listen closely to the people he will involve, and he has already begun to involve disabled people. The tragedy, of course, could have been avoided—the past few weeks have been agonising for disabled people and their carers—if the decision had been taken earlier to do what Sir Stephen intends to do now: to bring them into the dialogue, so that they will help co-produce and co-own their future. It will be a more sustainable future because of their input.

The scale of the challenge has already been set out, not just by my noble friend the Minister but by the noble Viscount, Lord Younger. Between 2019 and March 2025, the number of working-age adults claiming disability rose from 3 million to 4 million—or, from one in 13 to one in 10—a phenomenal increase. Within that, there is of course a disproportionate increase in the number of people claiming for mental health. This has been compounded by years of poor health and disability, rising poverty and deepening inequalities, all of which has been measured and recorded.

Those factors have been years in the making. I say to the noble Viscount that all parties have to own that failure and legacy. That includes the failure to plan for an ageing population, which we knew decades ago would require us to rethink the relationship between health, housing and care; the failure to anticipate the impact of the rising retirement age on the numbers of chronically sick and disabled in work; and the failure to care about the inevitable impact that a decade or more of austerity and the loss of essential services would have on physical and mental health in younger and older life. That was all left in the “too difficult” box—which has now been opened by this Government, who have a particular responsibility to act.

Most recently, Covid changed patterns not just of physical and mental health but of behaviour, which we still do not fully understand. There are some explanations, but there is no one conclusive explanation. On our watch, we have an inescapable duty—one we have to share—to make not just PIP but a new social contract for a welfare state fit for the future. We need to meet the needs for work as well as for support. If nothing changes for the 1 million young people out of work, employment and education, they will be condemned by design to further unemployment and poverty.

I welcome the Timms review, and I think it is welcome too for people with disabilities. When I had the privilege of chairing the Adult Social Care Select Committee, we heard, over a considerable length of time, from disabled people and carers about how the system is not working for them. Because of the precarious nature of this and the sense of anxiety every time there is a review, they know that the greatest danger is to do nothing and therefore introduce the risk that social security will be even worse, maybe to the point of collapse, in the next 10 years.

I particularly welcome the emphasis on co-production, using the experts by experience, who can really inform Ministers on what does and does not work. I want to send a particular message to Sir Stephen via my noble friend the Minister. As was already mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, it is absolutely necessary that unpaid carers be involved in the review and in leadership roles. Sir Stephen has said in the other place that it will be a consideration. Can we please have some information to reassure carers that their voices will be heard in the review? As we showed in our report two years ago, the tragedy of the unpaid carer is that they feel and are invisible. If they are left out of this review, it will be another egregious indication that they really do not matter. Whatever changes for them, they will have to go on caring, and whatever happens to PIP will have an immediate and direct impact on them. I trust my noble friend the Minister to take that message to the other place.

PIP Changes: Impact on Carer’s Allowance

Baroness Andrews Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

Some people get carer’s allowance—I know the noble Baroness understands this, but this is for the benefit of the House—while others will have a carer’s element in universal credit, and that automatically means they are not expected to be available to work. However, I assure her that work coaches can adjust conditionality in individual cases, taking account of the caring responsibilities, even if the carer’s element is not paid. Again, we will look at this as part of our consideration of the impacts.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for what she has said. I would expect nothing less from our Government than support for unpaid and paid carers. Exactly what arrangements are being made for consultation with unpaid carers? They are an inchoate and ununionised bunch, although there are many admirable charities. In a related question, what are the latest figures for the assessment of carers who are still falling into the trap of unwittingly working too many hours and therefore are still being penalised by DWP? We were told that the Government were acting on that.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, those are two important questions. I know we are working up the consultation process at the moment. That process will not start until we publish all the versions of the Green Paper in early April, including the accessible versions, but we are holding public events in person and virtually, as well as being open to written responses. I will make sure that we are open specifically to comments from unpaid carers.

On the question of overpayments and carer’s allowance, my noble friend may be aware that we have started an independent review into carer’s allowance overpayments, which will conclude this summer. It is being led by Liz Sayce, who brings enormous experience as a former Disability Rights UK chief executive and now a visiting professor in practice at the LSE. The review is specifically focusing on carer’s allowance overpayments. We are trying to work through the questions of how to manage that at the moment and whether there is there any way to reform the system to stop this happening in future.