Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

I am looking at the time. I am happy to continue this conversation elsewhere, but I will say this: I would be happy if Clause 3(7) encompassed not only Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories but the Palestinian Authority, because I do not want anybody using divestment or boycotts as a lever in the Middle East. We should all be working for peace, and we do not work for peace through BDS. I hope that the Opposition will reconsider their position but, in the meantime and with apologies to the House for overstaying my welcome a little, I support the Bill as drafted and therefore oppose the noble Lord’s amendment.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I support the remarks of my noble friends Lady Noakes, Lord Leigh and Lord Wolfson. This amendment would be deleterious to the Palestinians themselves. I cite the example of SodaStream, which had to close down its factory in the Occupied Territories at a loss of 600 Palestinian jobs because of the BDS movement; it was a particular factor. I shall quote two people who worked there. Ali Jafar, a shift manager from a West Bank village, said:

“All the people who wanted to close”


it

“are mistaken … They didn’t take into consideration the families”.

Anas Abdul Wadud Ghayth, who had worked there for four years, said, as he wiped tears:

“We were one family. I am sad because I am leaving my friends who have worked here for a long time”.


I am not in favour of settlements. I certainly believe that Israel has offered many times, and would offer again, to get out of territory that is currently occupied in exchange for a genuine peace deal. It has tried and would try again. Currently, there is perhaps a different mindset among those leading the country, but that is not necessarily permanent. At the moment, these territories are part of Israel. They are not necessarily permanently part of Israel, and I believe that they would ultimately be given up or exchanged in return for a genuine peace deal.

Currently, however, it is occupying them and providing jobs for Palestinian people who want them and could not find gainful employment otherwise. That was confirmed when, for example, the SodaStream factory shut down. From a security perspective, if Israel were to give back to the Golan Heights, it would be signing its own death warrant. You will know that if you have been to that area and seen what is there. Equally, with the Occupied Territories on the West Bank, I believe there is potential for a two-state solution that recognises both sides’ right to exist, but Israel needs a partner that is willing to recognise its own right to exist. This Bill is designed to protect, in the meantime, both Israel and the jobs being created in those territories.

However, like my noble friends, I have the most enormous respect for the noble Lord, Lord Collins, who I think genuinely wants to find a way to work through this and a wording that will let us deal with this issue in a way that is acceptable to all sides. I have no problem with that, and I hope we might have some meeting of minds, through which we can move forwards and try to achieve the aims of the Bill without offending noble Lords, on all sides. I have enormous respect for the noble Lord, Lord Warner, as well, who I have worked with in the past. Whether or not we agree on this issue, I hope that noble Lords can see the points I am trying to make about the things I believe the Government are trying to achieve.

Child Trust Funds

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, guaranteeing government time might be a little above my unpaid pay grade—but what I can say is that there will be a consultation. As the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, pointed out, there are interests to balance here. There will be, I hope, an eight-week consultation, and I invite everybody to be part of that. Following that, if we are going to legislate, I agree that it is something we should be getting on with.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I can only encourage my noble friend in his worthwhile endeavours to sort out this situation. I think a small payments scheme makes sense and, as the mood of this House shows, there is great support for allowing learning-disabled children to access the money that they need. In real life, Mikey, whom we have heard about before in this House, was able to get out during lockdown, and other children have been able to access sports therapy. Will the Minister acknowledge that this is a monumental success for the private financial industry, which for once has done its utmost to try to help people take money out of their accounts, which would cost them fees?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, I do think that the small payments scheme is the way forward. One of the mysteries in this cock-up, if I can use that word from the Dispatch Box, is why a proposal from the Law Commission in 1995 was, it seems from Hansard, not picked up by anybody in 2005 when the Mental Capacity Act was passed. It is that problem that I am now trying to resolve.

Crown Dependencies: Contributions

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

The noble Lord raises an important point. My role in the Ministry of Justice is essentially to be the point Minister for the Crown dependencies regarding the Government. Just as I make sure that the Crown dependencies’ relations with, for example, the Department for International Trade, are secure when we talk about international treaties, I also make sure that discussions on environmental and climate issues are close between the Crown dependencies and the relevant government departments.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise that this is a matter for the Crown rather than Parliament, but can my noble friend tell this House what the actual costs of defence and international representation for the Crown dependencies have been over the last few years?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has a constitutional responsibility to represent the Crown dependencies internationally. We discharge that responsibility irrespective of cost. As I said, however, the Crown dependencies have been making voluntary contributions since 1987. As these are general contributions in recognition of our overall responsibilities and it is in our interest to represent the whole British family internationally, they are not intended to reflect the exact costs of defending the Crown dependencies or representing them internationally. We are satisfied with the current arrangements.

Child Trust Funds: Children with Learning Disabilities

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the advisory group has been meeting not only organisations in the third sector such as Mencap but the financial providers. We have looked at a number of legal and regulatory issues. We believe that the way through this is by working with the Court of Protection. Quite properly, judges control the court and that is the way through to resolving this long-standing problem.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

I do not envy my noble friend’s position at this point. In the past he has said that the rules need to be appropriate, accessible and proportionate. Given the time it takes to access money that the child might have been waiting for, and that the parents of disabled children have so much to deal with, will my noble friend take back to the department the idea of adopting the change in law that was adopted for families whose children have life-threatening conditions in order to allow access to their own money in these circumstances? The industry itself, commendably, wants to help them with this.

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. We have looked at the legislative options. Amending primary legislation is not likely to be quick or easy. However, I must emphasise that the rules of the Court of Protection are a matter for the judiciary, not the Government. We therefore have to work with the judiciary, which I know is committed to this issue. Indeed, the Court of Protection has been working hard during the pandemic to ensure that its business is kept up to date.

Learning Disabilities: Child Trust Funds

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Wolfson of Tredegar

Thursday 11th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the present situation is absolutely unfortunate. One of the problems is that this does not seem to have been anticipated by the Government which put child trust funds into existence. We are doing all we can, and I will certainly report back to your Lordships’ House on the progress we make. As I have already said, I am personally committed to ensuring that this problem is solved.

[Baroness Altmann (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend assure the House that any measures taken to help children with disabilities access their own money in their child trust funds will also read across to junior ISAs, where I believe similar problems can arise? The Government may have special responsibility here, after the 2005 Government offered parents extra payments to invest in a child trust fund if they were also claiming disability living allowance.

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, at the moment I do not see any conceptual distinction between child trust funds and junior ISAs. What we put in place to solve this problem ought, in principle, to be applicable to junior ISAs as well.