National Insurance Contributions (Employer Pensions Contributions) Bill

Debate between Baroness Altmann and Lord Altrincham

Thursday 5th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Altmann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. It would be helpful if the Minister could explain a little more about what the Government believe the intention and the outcome of this policy will be. He did not answer my question earlier on why there is a rush to get this measure through Parliament so fast. Have the Government quantified the extra employer costs of the higher 15% national insurance contributions from the employer, and the 8% or 2% extra national insurance contribution per member, and quantified it in money terms and in what it will mean for pension provision and future pensioner poverty?

[Lord Altrincham (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for listening so carefully, as ever, and considering the comments made by our Benches. The amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, are well written and would ensure that, before regulations are made to implement the cap, the Government must publish the relevant information on how many basic rate taxpayers are affected. The policy rests on a concept of excess savings—or at least tax advantaged excess savings—and it may catch a whole range of taxpayers who have insufficient savings.

It is very useful for us to tease out the difference between these two outcomes. That is possible only if we have much more information on the distribution impacts of the policy, which the Government should be comfortable sharing with us. As we debate this, we have heard a range of observations on who is affected. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, gave a colourful description of it affecting people with enormous bonuses. That is one perspective. The noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, reminds us that it goes against policy for very large numbers of people to have insufficient pension savings. In other areas of government policy, we are trying to rebalance that, so the policy is dissonant on pension savings. The Government should be open and happy to share this information with us.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, pointed out, the Government already have this information. That may well be sufficient evidence for us to appreciate that the incentives are rather marginal and that the gains could be rather small. Based on the numbers that we have had in the debate, the number of basic rate taxpayers who are supporting this policy would be quite small and the contribution would be extremely small to the tax take. It might be useful for us to reflect on whether it is worth destabilising pension savings for that purpose.

The noble Baroness has done a good job of setting out the rationale for her amendment. I do not want to intrude further on your Lordships’ House by repeating her arguments. These amendments are sensible and chime well with the amendments that we have tabled from these Benches, which would require the affirmative resolution procedure for most regulations. A debate on those questions will be greatly aided by the information that the noble Baroness has set out. We will be listening carefully to the Minister’s response.