Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Angela Eagle and Margot James

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

rose—

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

Come on!

[Margot James]

I am glad that the hon. Lady is so keen to hear my answer to this question.

We support small business growth by ensuring that small businesses can access finance and wider support. The British Business Bank is already supporting more than 54,000 smaller businesses with £3.4 billion of finance, and I am leading a taskforce to enable SMEs to accelerate their growth potential and realise their growth prospects quicker.

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[Margot James]

I quite agree with my hon. Friend. That demonstrates the need for all businesses, especially SMEs, to take advantage of our target of 3 million apprenticeships and the huge improvement in the quality of apprenticeships that the National Apprenticeship Service supports.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

T5. Given that the Brexit negotiations are about to start, does the Secretary of State agree with his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister that no deal is better than a bad deal?

Draft Trade Union Act 2016 (Political Funds) (Transition Period) Regulations 2017

Debate between Angela Eagle and Margot James

Wednesday 25th January 2017 General Committees

[Margot James]

If trade unions hold conferences biannually, they will surely have at least one conference opportunity between now and March 2018. As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, under the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, it is not necessary for unions to amend their rules in this regard at a conference. They can apply to the certification officer for the acceptance of any form of union ballot on such a change of rules. Although many unions would prefer to give effect to the changes at a conference, there is no obligation on them to hold a conference to achieve that.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Margot James]

As it is the hon. Lady, I will give way.

[Ms Eagle]

I thank the Minister for giving way. I declare my proud membership of Unison and the journalists’ union. One of them allows members to opt in and has a political fund, while the other does not. Does the Minister not realise that trade unions rely on their rulebooks and the legitimacy of any changes to them in order to ensure that they are appropriately and politically accountable to members who may have different views on different policies? If they were to start amending their rules in this unorthodox way, to fit in with the Government’s purpose, that would set very unhelpful precedents for many other issues. I speak as someone who has very detailed knowledge of how trade unions operate their internal affairs. Will she at least acknowledge that point and go away and think about it? Will she also—

[The Chair]

Order. Interventions should be brief and to the point.

[Margot James]

I defer to the hon. Lady’s considerable experience of trade union matters, but she has just pointed out that trade union members have widely different views on many political issues. I think that that provides inherent justification for the measures.

[Ms Eagle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Margot James]

I have not finished responding to the hon. Lady. She correctly referred to a reliance on rules to provide proper accountability to members, and we respect that. However, the hon. Member for Glasgow South West said in an earlier intervention that many unions hold biannual conferences. There is therefore an opportunity between now and March 2018 for the vast majority of those unions with political funds to agree the rule changes at a conference. As I have said, if they cannot meet at a conference to introduce the new rules, they can at least ballot their members in consultation with a certification officer.

I am sorry that the hon. Member for Wallasey is frustrated and disappointed by my response, but I think that it is reasonable. The Government believe that a 12-month transition period is adequate for unions to ensure that they comply with the statutory requirement under the Trade Union Act. That balances the need to provide unions with sufficient time to implement the changes with the Government’s view that the measures are delivered promptly.

Once the regulations have received parliamentary approval, they will come into force on 1 March 2017 and the formal 12-month transition period will run from that date. The Government’s view is that unions have known about these changes for some time and it is not unreasonable to expect them to have already done some planning to meet the requirement. We are also grateful to the certification officer, who has consulted unions and issued model rules and guidance, which should assist them in complying with the new requirements.

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[Margot James]

I thank hon. Members for their contributions. This has been a thought-provoking, passionate debate. First, I thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough, for her contribution. I have spoken before about our consultation process with individual unions, the TUC and the certification officer. I accept that there is a degree of complexity to the changes that unions are required to make. At least the certification officer has this month published the model rules and the changes to union rulebooks, which is important.

[Ms Eagle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Margot James]

Not yet. There are 13 months to go before the due date. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough talked about “wholly irresponsible” regulations, and many hon. Members challenged the basis of what we are doing, not just the length of time that we are allowing unions before they must comply with the law. We Government Members feel that if people’s money is directed into a fund that is used for political purposes, they should at least know that, and have a say in whether they want that to happen. There may be a divide between the two parties on this, but I am afraid that we Government Members feel strongly that if people have money taken off them, they should have a say in where it goes, and that is all that the measure ensures.

Mr Stringer, you rightly allowed Members a degree of liberty in going beyond the confines of what we are debating; I shall take advantage of that and challenge the idea that we have taken an ideological position on this matter. I do not for one instant believe that. In fact, our research showed that almost half of the money raised through donations to political funds is, as the hon. Member for Glasgow South West pointed out, devoted to other campaigns, and not Labour party funds. Almost half goes on the sort of good campaigns that he mentioned. It is a complete myth that this is some sort of political attack on the way that the Labour party is funded.