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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Jess Phillips)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Mark. I thank the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford (Alicia Kearns) for her impassioned speech. However, I must give the biggest credit to my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) for bringing forward a debate on such an important issue. I have handled a lot of cases in my life, and have seen almost every way that the systems that are meant to protect us, such as the courts system, are used against victims in a patriarchal system. However, I have never seen a case that compares to the one that my hon. Friend spoke so bravely about, where our very democracy is used to allow a perpetrator to control. As in the case of Gisèle Pelicot, whose name has been mentioned today, it takes a huge amount of bravery to try to shift the shame elsewhere and keep speaking up. It has been a pleasure to work with my hon. Friend over the years, and long may that continue.
I am going to do something that did not always happen when I was on the other side in a debate: try to answer Members’ questions—that was not always my experience. Please bear with me if I jump around a bit. First, my hon. Friend is exactly right that we must make this issue everybody’s problem. By “everybody”—others mentioned the issue of silo Government—I mean every Government Department. I joked this morning that I was struggling to connect the issue to solar panels, but give me time.
To the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford, I say that the Conservative Government had a good track record of changing legislation, but what did not change at the same pace were the systematic processes that ensure that the legislation means something on the ground. Today we launched domestic abuse protection orders. The previous Government passed those into law, and three years after the fact, the first one was handed out this morning.
It will take a huge amount—a lot of different Departments and people having the will—to make things happen, and my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse is exactly right about that. A cross-Government strategy must not be just a piece of paper that sits on a shelf, and we say, “We’ve ticked that box.” It has to be targeted, and it has to have the will of everybody. As she said, that is what we will do. That will be out next year.
A number of people, including my hon. Friend, mentioned the concerning issue of non-contact sexual offences. Part 1 of the Angiolini review, which followed the death of Sarah Everard, made a huge number of recommendations with regard to how the police handle non-contact sexual offences. That was also mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (John Slinger). Frankly, it is not good enough, is it? It is woeful. I picked up a case just this morning, funnily enough, involving somebody sending naked images of themselves to someone—I will not use the colloquial term, even though I am sure everybody would expect me to; I am a Government Minister now.
These things have to be taken seriously. The Home Office is looking into the evidence about the escalation of non-contact sexual violence to contact sexual violence, because that evidence base does not currently exist, even though common sense would lead us all to assume it does. We need to ensure that we are continuing to work on that.
The issue of migrant women came up a number of times; my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Tony Vaughan) raised it, as did my hon. Friend the. Member for Poplar and Limehouse. Quite astutely, my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe reminded me of all the things I have said in the past on this issue. Although I now find myself in a different position, my heart is exactly in the same place. The issue of how migrant women are supported in our country is one that we are currently giving huge attention to. I do not care what stamp is in someone’s passport; if they have been abused on these shores, they deserve protection on these shores. That is what we will continue to strive for.
The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is right to say that I have a special interest in Northern Ireland. That is not to say that I do not love Wales and Scotland as well, because I do, but my father, who also raised me to be a feminist, makes my loyalty to Northern Ireland a tiny bit stronger than to elsewhere.
Alicia Kearns
The Minister and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) may welcome the information that the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee will hold specific hearings on violence against women and girls in Northern Ireland in the next few months. I am sure we will share with them in the next few months the outcomes of those hearings.
Jess Phillips
Yes, I had heard that from the Chair, and I am very pleased about it. For the now finally formed Government of Northern Ireland—we were all delighted to see that happen—one of their top priorities, in not a long list for government, is violence against women and girls. I will go over in January to work with the devolved Government and the Police Service of Northern Ireland to see how we can help each other to make this issue better.
Another point to make is about women’s experiences in post-conflict areas. Lots of people have mentioned conflict zones, but the women’s experience of violence in conflict zones, and then post conflict, does not get discussed when we talk about peace treaties and what needs to be put in place to rebuild infrastructure. We must not lose sight of that either.
Staying on the theme of the international stage, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Alice Macdonald) said that this might not be my area to talk about with regard to Malala Yousafzai, so I will take this moment to shamelessly say that it is literally my area, because I am her Member of Parliament. I feel pretty proud that it was my city that took Malala in when she really needed refuge. I once had to lecture her school class about activism and how to be better activists, and this was after she had won the Nobel peace prize. That was a moment in my life that I felt slight shame in, but I hope they took something away from it.
I met with Malala recently on the very issue, as touched on by the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford and my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North, of the experiences of women in Afghanistan and the regime they are—I cannot even say “living under”—under. In fact, I met some of her people yesterday and will be continuing those conversations, and when I met with Malala herself it was with Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office Ministers, so those conversations are ongoing.
The issue of funding was mentioned by many, and my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft (Jess Asato) mentioned a statutory duty in her comments. This links to the point about Cheshire. When my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Cheshire (Andrew Cooper) and I visited Cheshire police, we saw NHS-funded posts, probation-funded posts, police-funded posts and police and crime commissioner-funded posts sitting in a room together working tirelessly, and this goes to the point from my hon. Friend about rolling this out, as it is in London with the Metropolitan police and only two other areas. It is all well and good the Government saying, “I’m gonna have this fund and that fund”, but we will never solve this issue unless violence against women and girls is specifically mainstreamed into funding programmes in every locality, in every Department. This cannot be just a nice-to-have on International Women’s Day, and the example in Cheshire is a fantastic one, so we know it can work elsewhere. This is about the Government seeing what levers we can pull to ensure that that can happen.
Dan Norris (North East Somerset and Hanham) (Lab)
Many social workers and police officers have kind hearts and great practice. How will the Government reach out to encourage their best practice while at the same time dealing with the bad practice?
Jess Phillips
My hon. Friend makes a very important point, because trusting police officers comes up quite a lot, and the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse talked about how trust in police was at its lowest. What I would say is that the women who I have worked with over the years do not have the privilege of having an alternative to trusting the police; they have to trust them, because in most of their cases that is the only option they have. We also must work to ensure that, as my hon. Friend suggested, we do not demoralise the workforce with review after review, which sometimes demoralises people and makes this process a sort of check-box exercise of, “I did everything I should have”, rather than people’s response being, “Are you all right, love?”
My hon. Friend is absolutely right—the Government will have a fierce regime for standards in policing, but we will always celebrate good practice. This morning, I was in the constituency of the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Luke Taylor)—well, I was not in his constituency, but I was with his borough command, as Sutton and Cheam will be one of the first areas to have the roll-out of domestic abuse protection orders. I met dedicated staff from Sutton Council who work on domestic abuse and the police officers working in that borough command to make sure the roll-out happens. I could not have asked for better examples of police officers; they were totally dedicated. We need to do both things; celebrate the good and punish the bad.
I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) on Anna’s case that—I am sure my officials will get annoyed with me doing this every time—I am personally happy to help Anna. I cannot listen to that story and not think that something has to be done about Anna’s specific case. However, we cannot just change things for Anna; we have to change them for everybody. We have to make sure that such stories—I do not want to sit and listen to such stories for the next five years. However, changing things will take quite a lot of time.
Several Members mentioned employment. I would be happy to have a conversation with the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), as I have already had many times, about exactly what she is seeking to achieve. The tackling violence against women and girls strategy is a cross-Government strategy and women will absolutely have a role in it. I mean, women do go to work; indeed, that feels like all I do. But women being safe at work was one of the things that she and I discussed while we were fighting for the domestic abuse protection orders to cover a woman’s workplace, when we served on the Domestic Abuse Bill Committee. As I say, I am more than happy to work with her, and workers’ rights and how we deal with people’s employment will absolutely be part of Government strategy.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Jas Athwal) talked about Zara Aleena’s family, who I know well and have worked with over the years. We absolutely must ensure that we do not hear such a story again. My hon. Friend told the story of Zara Aleena and her perpetrator. The failings in Zara’s case show exactly what I am saying about a crippled system; we could make better law, or better rules, but the system of probation had been so crippled that that was the outcome. I feel immensely upset about Zara’s case.
Many Members mentioned education; indeed, somebody asked me directly if I speak to the Department for Education. My officials or I speak to the DFE daily. Apart from the Ministry of Justice and the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), with whom I work very closely, this mission focuses most on the Department for Education, because prevention is vital.
Many Members have spoken about boys. For example, as the mother of sons myself, I was affected by the harrowing stories that my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes Central (Emily Darlington) told about boys’ attitudes. We have got to prevent this—I am sick of just putting bigger plasters on cuts. We have got to work very closely on prevention and on perpetrator work to prevent those who are already showing signs from escalating, and we will absolutely do that.
To answer the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford, Operation Soteria, having been rolled out, goes into a new phase in January where police forces have to tell us how exactly they are going to be doing it. There is no proposed end to Operation Soteria. I continue to see its benefits and work closely with the academics and police forces that undertook the work on it.
On the point about measurements, the overarching measurements we will seek to use will be just one thing. I refuse to make a target and miss a point. It is quite easy to juke stats anyway, isn’t it? Many different metrics sit underneath the overarching measure. The exercise on exactly what that measure will be is currently ongoing. The measure currently used in this instance is the crime survey of England and Wales. But we have to look at many other metrics, whether they are attitudinal, about femicide, or about issues with delivery in schools. It is not just the Home Office working on that; every Department is currently busily working on what their metrics might be. When the measurements are properly announced, I am determined to make sure that they do not just hit a target and miss a point.
On the flexible fund program, I am not going to commit to any funding anybody has asked me about today. I literally cannot, as that process is currently ongoing. However, I have seen the value of the flee fund over the years.
The pornography review is due, I think, very early next year. It was started by the previous Government and we will be working on it. As the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford said, the Online Safety Act only goes so far. I do not know how apocryphal this is, so I apologise if I am misleading the House, but I saw in a news article that Pornhub had said it had found some sort of workaround to the Online Safety Act. It was somehow going to make out like it was not a pornography site, so I assume we will all be going on Pornhub later to buy books. Is it that what they are offering? The use of graphic pornography in society has caused many of the things people have talked about today.
I am meant to have said all these things the Government are going to do and are currently doing. I think I have said most of them in answer to the questions. I will finish by saying that I wanted to cry today when I was with the police force in south London and the first domestic abuse protection order, something we had waited so long for, was handed out. The police officer was so delighted, and I felt like a new dawn was coming.