Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), and I think I agree with every word she said. This is a classic debate in which we find Members of all parties coming together to make the same cause, because it matters so much to our constituents and is so important.
I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) on bringing forward this debate. More specifically, I congratulate him on the very well-worded motion we are debating. I reiterate his point that, even if we do not divide on the motion, it needs to be read and taken seriously by BBC management. This set of proposals would silence local voices.
The proposals would also be detrimental to the BBC’s work as a public sector broadcaster on equality grounds. I question whether the BBC has ran proper equality tests on the impact of what it is doing. I recently joined blind campaigners outside No. 10 Downing Street to present a petition on this issue, which was also presented at BBC headquarters in W1A, and I do not think that has been responded to in detail by the BBC. Local radio stations are trusted voices, which are trusted by our constituents because they are local voices, and they are also trusted by people who miss out on digital and people who are isolated, lonely and living on their own, whether for reasons of disability, age or digital exclusion. These are audiences that the BBC should absolutely be going out of its way to serve.
We have heard about proposals for timing changes. The BBC will say that it is keeping local radio for the most important part of its listenership and the most popular part of its readership, but that misses the point. If we take away the journalists who are covering news for key periods of the day, we will lose key local content that does not then find its way to digital. We all know that events in our constituency—whether political or educational, or about volunteers doing great work—do not just take place between 7 o’clock in the morning and 2 o’clock in the afternoon. In fact, most educational stories are likely to take place during the afternoon when people have more time to talk about them. A lot of politics takes place later on in the day and feeds into the evening shows. These are the things the BBC should be paying attention to.
The BBC should also be paying attention to its staff. I have rarely been one to speak out in favour of strikes, but I have to say that I have every sympathy with members of the NUJ who have been striking and protesting, because they have not been consulted and have not been listened to. In fact, local journalists who work incredibly hard, and who are a key pipeline for future talent into the BBC nationally, are not being listened to in this space. I think that absolutely needs to change.
Talking of listening, the BBC says it has listened on some of its regional proposals and changes, but from a Worcestershire MP’s perspective, it has actually made things worse. It was originally proposing to put together programming from Hereford and Worcester with programming from Coventry and Warwickshire. That, from a Worcestershire perspective, is difficult—it would not necessarily be as local as it was—but vaguely understandable. The BBC has changed that now, and has taken away the idea of combining us with Coventry and Warwickshire. It is now suggesting combining Hereford and Worcester with Shropshire, Staffordshire and Stoke. My constituents do not feel that the news in Stoke is terribly relevant to them, and I am sure my Stoke colleagues would feel likewise. I agree with what the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) said about the genuinely local content of what local radio can deliver and the huge importance of that. With the best will in the world, her constituents are better served by BBC Radio Shropshire and my constituents are better served by BBC Radio Hereford and Worcester.
There is much more I would like to say. I have discussed in previous debates the importance of BBC local radio at times of crisis, such as times of floods; my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead referred to the fire in his constituency. We need that coverage through the day; we need those local voices through the day. I urge the BBC to sit up and listen and make sure that this motion is taken seriously and we keep that very valuable part of the crown jewels of public service broadcasting, BBC local radio.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stuart Andrew)
Shame it’s Lancashire, though.
I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) for calling the debate. It is the second time that he has invited DCMS Ministers to participate in a debate on the BBC and local radio in the past year, and I thank him for his commitment to revisiting this important issue.
The fact that we have heard contributions from Hemel Hempstead, South Shields, Bootle, South Swindon, Great Grimsby, Kingston-upon-Hull North, Worcester, Wansbeck, Waveney, Reading East, Totnes, York, Hayes and Harlington, Southend West, Strangford, New Forest, Watford, Isle of Wight, Slough, North Shropshire and Blaydon shows the nationwide concern on this issue. I am taking this debate on behalf on my colleague the Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale). I know that he is incredibly passionate about local radio, and he rightly made the point during our last debate on this topic that BBC local radio is an essential and widely trusted information service, and it is hugely valued by a large number of listeners.
We recognise the strength of feeling about the importance of BBC local services—it would be impossible not to do so after this debate—and the concerns raised about the impact that the planned changes will have on audiences, many of whom rely on local radio programming for news and entertainment. Many Members have spoken about its importance to local democracy.
Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)
I thank the Minister for giving way and apologise for not being here at the start of the debate—I was in a Bill Committee. I agree with Mr Deputy Speaker that BBC Radio Lancashire is at the heart of our communities. We have well-known and well-loved presenters in Mike Stevens, Stephen Lowe and Graham Liver. A key thing—one that the Minister has just mentioned—is audience engagement with the presenters of shows. The staff are all key. The BBC do not seem to be doing very well at ensuring that there is consultation.
Stuart Andrew
My hon. Friend raises an important point. It has come across strongly in the debate how much local communities value their local services and how much we, as Members of this House, rely on that service too. I am glad she made that point.
Ministers at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport have consistently made clear to the House that we are disappointed that the BBC is planning to reduce its local radio output in England. We are also disappointed that the BBC has announced proposed changes to its radio output in Northern Ireland, to which the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) referred, including cuts to BBC Radio Foyle, which is a vital part of Northern Ireland’s media landscape.
Since our last debate on this in December, the BBC has also announced cuts to BBC Scotland, including the opt-out services in Shetland, Orkney and the highlands and islands. We remain clear that, while it is up to the BBC to decide how it delivers its services, it must ensure that it continues to provide distinctive and genuinely local radio services.
Stuart Andrew
I had better carry on, because of time; sorry.
Since the BBC’s announcement, Ministers have met the chair of the BBC board and the director general to express our shared concerns. The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez), has made clear that the BBC must continue to provide distinctive and genuinely local radio services, with content that represents communities from all corners of the UK. She has also emphasised that we expect the BBC to consider the views of this House when it makes the decision over whether to proceed, and we are committed to raising this issue again with the BBC’s director general.
The BBC has heard loud and clear Parliament’s views on these changes. BBC executives appeared before the Culture, Media and Sport Committee in December last year to answer further questions on the impact of the planned changes, particularly for staff and audiences. The issue was explored again just last week by the Committee when it invited the director general to come along to talk about it. I welcome the important role that the Select Committee is playing in this area.
As Members have highlighted, one of the crown jewels remains the 39 local radio services around England that reach 5.8 million listeners a week. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead said, BBC local radio provides a service to our constituents and communities that commercial radio cannot provide. It brings communities together and plays a vital role in reflecting local experiences. As the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington highlighted, BBC local radio has a track record of providing a reliable source of local news on which all our communities depend. Indeed, BBC local radio is a lifeline for many older people, particularly those living in rural areas, and it is a conduit of important information in times of emergency, which is part of its public value.
There have been some changes since the BBC made its initial announcement. It says to us that BBC local radio provides vital companionship to many listeners, and that remains a central part of its plan. The BBC has reassured us that audiences will continue to find presenters and programmes that can understand the issues that shape their lives, reassure them in times of crisis and comfort them if they are lonely.
Since its initial announcement in October last year, the BBC has confirmed to us that all 39 BBC local radio services will continue to be entirely local from 6 am to 2 pm each weekday. Outside those hours, the BBC will share some programming across county boundaries. All stations will retain the ability to break out of shared programming and respond to breaking local news stories, including extreme weather conditions and public health emergencies. It says that live local sport will be protected and all existing local news bulletins will remain. However, I have heard the many examples raised by Members today and will ensure that my right hon. Friend the Minister responsible for media, tourism and the creative industries has those at his disposal at his next meeting.
The BBC says that it has listened to feedback from audiences and Members of this House over recent months and adapted its plans in response to what it has heard. In response to feedback that some of the areas proposed for programmes are simply too large, the BBC has added additional programmes on weekday afternoons, weekend breakfasts and weekend daytimes. It has also confirmed that it is reprioritising around 10% of existing local spend from broadcast to online. Using that redeployed funding, the BBC says that it will open up 130 additional local journalist posts across England, which it believes will strengthen its local online news services across 43 local areas, with new services launching in Bradford, Wolverhampton, Sunderland and Peterborough. Again, though, I have heard many of the points that have been raised, and I will make sure that they are relayed.
On the role of Ofcom, the BBC has acknowledged that it made mistakes with regards to the handling of communications around planned service changes. We are very clear that we expect the BBC to be far more transparent with audiences and the Government about changes to its content and services. That is a requirement in the BBC’s updated operating licence, which came into effect in April. We expect Ofcom, as the regulator of the BBC, to robustly hold it to account, especially in the delivery of its mission and public purposes. Ofcom has set out what it expects the BBC to do in reviewing the impact of the changes and meeting the audience’s needs, and is commissioning new research to understand audiences’ needs and the value they get from these local services. As the Minister for Equalities and for loneliness—areas I have great passion for—I will certainly pay further attention to this issue.
The BBC’s recent decisions do appear to fundamentally impact important BBC local services, particularly BBC local radio, which is an essential part of its public service remit. It is right that this House continues to scrutinise the BBC’s continued provision of local services. We all agree that the BBC has been entertaining and informing us for 100 years. We want it to continue to succeed over the next century in a rapidly evolving media landscape, and are clear that BBC radio has a significant role to play in that success. In light of the concerns that have been raised in this debate, the BBC needs to clarify how it will manage the long-term tensions involved in modernising and becoming more sustainable while maintaining its core public service function and output. Although I recognise that the BBC faces difficult decisions in reforming its services and becoming a digital-first organisation, today’s debate has highlighted the concerns shared across the House about the BBC’s proposals to reduce its local radio output.
I stress again that the BBC is independent from Government. It is for the BBC to reflect on the concerns that have been raised about its proposals, in this debate and elsewhere. I thank all Members for their contributions today and for an enlightening debate, which has even seen my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) think about joining a picket line.