Domestic Abuse Bill (First sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Committee stage
Thursday 4th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I will not be heckled—this is the easy bit.

Hansard has asked for you to email your written notes or speeches, because obviously these are not normal circumstances, to [e-mail].

Today we will first consider the programme motion on the amendment paper. We will then consider a motion to enable the reporting of written evidence for publication and a motion to allow us to deliberate in private about our questions before the oral evidence session. In view of the limited time available, I hope that we can take these matters without much debate. I call the Minister to move the programme motion that was agreed by the Programming Sub-Committee on Tuesday.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Victoria Atkins)]

I beg to move,

That—

(1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at 11.30 am on Thursday 4 June) meet—

(a) at 2.00 pm on Thursday 4 June;

(b) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 9 June;

(c) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Wednesday 10 June;

(d) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 11 June;

(e) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 16 June;

(f) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Wednesday 17 June;

(2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with the following Table:

[The Chair]

Copies of written evidence that the Committee receives will be made available in the Committee Room.

Resolved,

That, at this and any subsequent meeting at which oral evidence is to be heard, the Committee shall sit in private until the witnesses are admitted.—(Victoria Atkins.)

--- Later in debate ---

[Victoria Atkins]

Q Good morning. You agree that the Government need clear data and evidence in order to create meaningful and effective policies to help those incredibly vulnerable women.

Pragna Patel: Absolutely. Of course I do. I think the evidence has been gathered, and it is there; that is my difference with the view that we need to collect more data and evidence. Over the duration of this Bill, there have been various roundtables, ministerial meetings, submissions to the Home Office, internal reviews, submissions to the last call for evidence. In all these ways, evidence has been submitted to show how migrant women, particularly those with no recourse to public funds and on non-spousal visas, are being left behind and left devoid of protection. There is a lot of evidence out there, and it is gathered. Government themselves have funded us, through the tampon tax, to provide that evidence.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q That was my next question: we have asked you to help us with this evidence, haven’t we? We have given you £250,000 through the tampon tax fund and a further £1 million to build on that work. Against that background, could you please help us by telling us how many victims you have helped through the tampon tax fund?

Pragna Patel: We produced the findings, which we have also let you have. That is an evaluation of the tampon tax funding for no-recourse women.

[Victoria Atkins]

How many victims?

Pragna Patel: There are a number of tampon tax funds, but altogether between them, from 2017 to date, we have probably helped in the region of 500 women.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q Is it fair to say that a high proportion of those 500 women were eligible for support under the destitute domestic violence concession?

Pragna Patel: No. We would say that half were and half were not.

[Victoria Atkins]

So 250 of the 500 were eligible, but 250 were not—

Pragna Patel: Were not eligible.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q Of the 250 who were not eligible, how many of the cases were complex and would have needed more than three months under the DDVC arrangements, and how many times have you asked for the DDVC time limit to be extended?

Pragna Patel: We have asked several times for the time limit to be extended, in recognition of the fact that women who are on non-spousal visas have complex immigration histories, and the evaluation findings suggest that we need a longer period of time to support them in order for them to resolve those immigration difficulties. Up to six months or so would be an average.

[Victoria Atkins]

Fair enough, but of the 250—

Pragna Patel: Half of them at least, because our evidence shows that about two thirds of the women who come to us and our partner agencies in relation to the no-recourse fund that we provide are women who do not have spousal visas, and therefore need at least three months, if not longer—up to six months, or sometimes a little more—to resolve their immigration matters.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q Fair enough. How many of the 250 women who were not eligible under DDVC could have sought help from other sources of Government support, including, for example, the national referral mechanism, having been trafficked and—

Pragna Patel: Not many would have sought help through the national referral mechanism, because trafficked women only represented a small proportion of the women who came to us for help.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q I appreciate that incredibly vulnerable victims of human trafficking living in abusive households may not know that the NRM exists, but of course, the role of charities is to signpost them to that system where they get support.

Pragna Patel: Not many of them were what we would classify as trafficked victims. Many of them were women who were in abusive marriages and relationships, whose relationship or marriage broke down due to domestic abuse. It is not an accurate reflection to say that many of those women could have been referred to the national referral mechanism.

[Victoria Atkins]

I am not saying that; I am just asking for your findings.

Pragna Patel: Perhaps a handful.

[Victoria Atkins]

Q The reason I am asking these questions is to understand the evidence base we have at the moment. We are very grateful for the work you have done, but at the moment, the evidence base consists of a few hundred cases. They are compelling, complex cases, but to create a national policy, would you not agree that we need more evidence to ensure that the policies we are creating will help those women most in need? For example, the three-month DDVC extension may not help some of the women who you have just described.

Pragna Patel: No, we are talking about a six-month period in which the evaluation findings suggest that many of the women could be helped to resolve their immigration matters or be well on their way, and helped to deal with the barriers they need to overcome in order to stand on their own two feet. In terms of the evidence you need, the evidence we have provided is exactly the evidence that you will get if you do another pilot project.

[Victoria Atkins]

Let’s not speculate about the pilot project—

[The Chair]

Minister, I must apologise, but I can see what will happen if I do not stop you—I will not get the other Back-Bench Members in. This always happens. I apologise to the witness. We could do a two-hour session, but we only have half an hour, so—

[Victoria Atkins]

Q Am I allowed one more question? Do you welcome the pilot project, and the money that we are investing in trying to help?

Pragna Patel: We are worried that the pilot project will delay matters and will delay the needed protection measures, and that it may be followed up by yet more pilot projects. We are worried that the pilot project has been allocated £1.5 million, whereas the tampon tax that we currently have has allocated £1.9 million. It is only helping 130 women over two years, so we cannot see how the £1.5 million that you have allocated for a pilot project will support many women or will garner the kind of evidence that you will need and that is not already available to you now.

[The Chair]

Thank you. I am going to change the order slightly, because Mr Wood kindly gave up his slot last time. Mike, I will come to you now, if that is okay.