The Committee divided: - Ayes: 6 / Noes: 9 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Committee divided: - Ayes: 2 / Noes: 14 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Committee divided: - Ayes: 8 / Noes: 8 - The Chair: In accordance with precedent, given that there is equality of votes, I have to cast my vote with the Noes to leave the Bill unamended. I will have to explain that one to my constituents.
The Committee divided: - Ayes: 5 / Noes: 7 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Committee divided: - Ayes: 8 / Noes: 7 - Question accordingly agreed to.
The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (George Eustice)
I can be relatively brief. The clause sets out the circumstances in which the officer of a body corporate, as well as the body corporate, may be found guilty of committing a relevant offence. These offences mirror those in section 12 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 and apply to all parts of the UK.
Clause 15(1) provides that an officer of a body corporate, as well as a body corporate, may be guilty of an offence where it is proved that the officer connived or consented to the offence or that the offence was attributable to the neglect of the officer. Subsection (3) provides for members of a body corporate to be treated as if they were directors, who fall under the definition of �officer�. That means that subsection (1) applies in relation to their acts and omissions in connection with their management of the body corporate. Subsection (4) is similar to subsection (1), but applies to a partner or person purporting to be a partner in a Scottish partnership.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 15 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 16
Jurisdiction of court to try offences
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
George Eustice
I can be even briefer on this clause, which simply provides that offences may be treated as having been committed in any place in the United Kingdom. That ensures that a prosecution could be brought in the appropriate UK court.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 16 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 17
Consequential amendments
George Eustice
I beg to move amendment 4, in clause�17,�page�9,�line�36,�leave out from �contains� to end of line 36 and insert�
�() in Part 1, consequential amendments relating to the provision made by sections 7 and 8;
() in Part 2�
(i) minor amendments relating to the licensing of fishing boats, and
(ii) consequential amendments relating to the provision made by sections 9 to16;
() in Part 3, transitional provision relating to the provision made by sections 9 to16.�
This amendment would ensure that Clause 17 accurately describes the contents of Schedule 3, if the proposed Government amendments to that Schedule are made.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Clause stand part.
Government amendments 7 to 9.
That schedule 3 be the Third schedule to the Bill.
George Eustice
Government amendment 4 is simply a technical amendment to ensure that clause 17 accurately describes the contents of schedule 3, which makes consequential amendments to existing legislation. The relevant legislation is the Sea Fish Industry Act 1962, the Sea Fisheries Act 1968, the Fishery Limits Act 1976, designation orders made under that Act, and the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 and orders made under that Act.
Amendment 4 agreed to.
Clause 17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 3
Access and licensing: consequential amendments
Amendments made: 7, in schedule 3, page 39, line 15, leave out from �(interpretation),� to end of line and insert�
�( ) in subsection (1), at the appropriate place, insert�
�British fishing boat� means a fishing boat�
(a) which is registered in the United Kingdom under Part 2 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995,
(b) which is British-owned, or
(c) which is registered under the law of Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man;�;
( ) in that subsection, in the definition of �sea fish�, omit �4,�;
( ) after subsection (1) insert�
�(1A) In any order or regulations made under this Act �foreign fishing boat� means (unless the contrary intention appears) a fishing boat which is not a British fishing boat.��
This amendment would ensure that the expressions �British fishing boat� and �foreign fishing boat� bear the same meaning in the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, and subordinate legislation made under it, as they do the Bill.
Amendment 8, in schedule 3, page 39, line 19, at end insert�
�Fishery Limits Act 1976
5A In the Fishery Limits Act 1976, omit section 3 (which substitutes section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967).
Fisheries Act 1981
5B In the Fisheries Act 1981, omit section 20 (which amends section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967).
Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1992
5C In the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1992, omit section 1 (which amends section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967).
Government of Wales Act 2006
5D (1) The Government of Wales Act 2006 is amended as follows.
(2) In Schedule 3A (functions of Ministers of Crown etc exercisable concurrently or jointly with Welsh Ministers)�
(a) in paragraph 1(2), in the table, in the entry for the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, in column 2�
(i) omit �(a) section 4 (licensing of fishing boats), and�;
(ii) for �sections 4 and� substitute �section�;
(b) in paragraph 2(2)(b), omit sub-paragraph (i);
(c) in paragraph 2(3), omit �4 or�.
Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009
5E (1) The Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 is amended as follows.
(2) In section 4 (licensing of fishing boats)�
(a) omit subsections (1) to (6);
(b) in subsection (7), for �that section� substitute �section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 (licensing of fishing boats)�.
(3) In section 7 (regulations supplementary to sections 4 and 4A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967), omit �4 or�.
(4) In section 196 (charging for commercial fishing licences), omit subsection (1).
(5) Omit section 197 (grant of licences subject to conditions imposed for environmental purposes).
(6) In section 284 (power to require production of certain equipment), in subsection (2)(a), for �section 4(6) or� substitute �paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 to the Fisheries Act 2019 or section.�
This amendment would insert additional amendments in connection with the repeal of section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 and its re-enactment in the Bill.
Amendment 9, in schedule 3, page 39, line 32, at end insert�
�Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) Regulations 1994
6A (1) The Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) Regulations 1994 (S.I. 1994/2813) are amended as follows.
(2) In regulation 1 (citation, commencement and interpretation)�
(a) in the heading, after �commencement� insert �, application�;
(b) after paragraph (1) insert�
�(1A) These regulations apply in relation to�
(a) licences granted under section 10 of the Fisheries Act 2019 (licensing of British fishing boats) in respect of Welsh fishing boats;
(b) licences granted under section 12 of that Act (licensing of foreign fishing boats) by the Welsh Ministers; and
(c) licences granted under section 4A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 (licensing of vessels receiving trans-shipped fish)�
(i) in respect of Welsh fishing boats, or
(ii) by the Welsh Ministers in respect of foreign fishing boats.�;
(c) in paragraph (2), for the definition of �licence� substitute�
��licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply (see regulation 1(1A));�;
(d) in paragraph (2), in the definition of �nominee�, in paragraph (b), for �in a member State and having a place of business� substitute �, and having a place of business,�;
(e) in paragraph (2), for the definition of �sea fishing licence� substitute�
��sea fishing licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply by virtue of regulation 1(1A)(a) or (b);�;
(f) in paragraph (2), at the end insert�
��Welsh fishing boat� means a fishing boat�
(a) which is registered in the United Kingdom under Part 2 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, and
(b) whose entry in the register specifies a port in Wales as the port to which the boat is to be treated as belonging.�
(3) In regulation 2 (communication of licences and notices)�
(a) in paragraph (1), in the opening words, for �a nominee� substitute �an appropriate recipient�;
(b) in paragraph (1), for sub-paragraph (d) substitute�
(d) subject to paragraph (6), transmitting it to the appropriate recipient by means of an electronic communication to an address which the appropriate recipient has specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b) of that paragraph.�;
(c) for paragraph (2) substitute�
�(2) A notice shall be effected by communicating it to an appropriate recipient�
(a) in any of the ways specified in paragraph (1);
(b) by publishing it on a website, the address of which is indicated on the licence to which the notice relates; or
(c) in accordance with paragraph (3).�;
(d) after that paragraph insert�
�(2A) In this regulation, �an appropriate recipient� means�
(a) in relation to a licence or notice relating to a Welsh fishing boat�
(i) the owner or charterer of the fishing boat, or
(ii) a nominee of that owner or charterer; and
(b) in relation to a licence or notice relating to any other fishing boat, the owner or charterer of the fishing boat.�;
(e) in paragraph (3), in the closing words, omit �granted by the appropriate Minister,�;
(f) after paragraph (4) insert�
�(5) A notice, other than a notice published in accordance with paragraph (3), must�
(a) specify the name, port letters and number of the fishing boat named in the licence to which the notice relates, or
(b) in the case of a notice in respect of two or more licences, specify the name, port letters and number of the fishing boats named in the licences.
(6) A licence or notice may be communicated to a person by means of an electronic communication only if the following conditions are met�
(a) the use of the electronic communication results in the information contained in the licence or notice being available to the person in all material respects as it would appear in a licence or notice given in printed form, and
(b) the person has specified an address for the purpose of receiving such communications.�
(4) In regulation 3 (delivery of licences and giving of notices)�
(a) in paragraph (3), for �a nominee�s� substitute �an�;
(b) after paragraph (3) insert�
�(3A) A notice communicated in accordance with regulation 2(2)(b) (publication on website) shall be treated as given immediately it is published.�
(5) In regulation 4 (time at which licences and notices to have effect)�
(a) in paragraph (a) omit �, and a notice which is communicated in accordance with regulation 2(2)(b),�;
(b) in paragraph (b), omit the �and� at the end;
(c) after paragraph (b) insert�
�(ba) a notice which is communicated in accordance with regulation 2(2)(b) (publication on website) shall have effect 24 hours after it is treated as given in accordance with regulation 3; and�.
Scotland Act 1998 (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999
6B (1) The Scotland Act (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999 (S.I. 1999/1512) is amended as follows.
(2) In Schedule 1 (functions conferred on Minister of the Crown), omit paragraph 1.
(3) In Schedule 2 (functions exercisable by Scottish Ministers), omit paragraph 1.
Scotland Act 1998 (Concurrent Functions) Order 1999
6C (1) The Scotland Act 1998 (Concurrent Functions) Order 1999 (S.I. 1999/1592) is amended as follows.
(2) In Schedule 1�
(a) in column 1, omit the entry for section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, and
(b) omit the corresponding entry in column 2.
Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (Scotland) Regulations 2011
6D (1) The Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (Scotland) Regulations 2011 (S.I. 2011/70) are amended as follows.
(2) In regulation 1 (citation, commencement, extent and application)�
(a) in paragraph (2), omit the words from �and the Scottish zone� to the end;
(b) for paragraph (3) substitute�
�(3) These regulations apply in relation to�
(a) licences granted under section 10 of the Fisheries Act 2019 (licensing of British fishing boats) in respect of Scottish fishing boats;
(b) licences granted under section 12 of that Act (licensing of foreign fishing boats) by the Scottish Ministers; and
(c) licences granted under section 4A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 (licensing of vessels receiving trans-shipped fish)�
(i) in respect of Scottish fishing boats, or
(ii) by the Scottish Ministers in respect of foreign fishing boats.�
(3) In regulation 2 (interpretation)�
(a) for the definition of �licence� substitute�
��licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply (see regulation 1(3));�;
(b) in the definition of �nominee��
(i) in paragraph (b) for �a member State� substitute �the United Kingdom�;
(ii) in the closing words, omit �Scottish�;
(c) in the definition of �Scottish fishing boat�, omit �; and in respect of which the Scottish Ministers may grant or have granted a licence�;
(d) for the definition of �sea fishing licence� substitute�
��sea fishing licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply by virtue of regulation 1(3)(a) or (b).�
(4) In regulation 3 (communication of licences and notices)�
(a) in paragraph (1), in the opening words, for �Scottish fishing boat� substitute �fishing boat�;
(b) in paragraph (1), in sub-paragraphs (a) and (b), after �charterer or� insert �, in the case of a Scottish fishing boat,�;
(c) in paragraph (2)�
(i) in sub-paragraph (a), at the beginning, insert �in the case of a Scottish fishing boat�;
(ii) in sub-paragraph (b), omit �Scottish�;
(d) in paragraphs (3) and (4), for �Scottish fishing boat� substitute �fishing boat�
(5) In regulation 4 (delivery of licences and giving of notices), in paragraph (3), for �a nominee�s� substitute �an�.
Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (England) Regulations 2012
6E (1) The Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (England) Regulations 2012 (S.I. 2012/827) are amended as follows.
(2) In regulation 1 (citation, commencement and application), for paragraph (2) substitute�
�(2) These regulations apply in relation to�
(a) licences granted under section 10 of the Fisheries Act 2019 (licensing of British fishing boats) in respect of relevant fishing boats;
(b) licences granted under section 12 of that Act (licensing of foreign fishing boats) by the Marine Management Organisation; and
(c) licences granted under section 4A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 (licensing of vessels receiving trans-shipped fish)�
(i) in respect of relevant fishing boats, or
(ii) by the Marine Management Organisation in respect of foreign fishing boats.�
(3) In regulation 2 (interpretation)�
(a) for the definition of �licence� substitute�
��licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply (see regulation 1(2));�;
(b) in the definition of �nominee��
(i) in paragraph (b), for �in a member State and having a place of business� substitute �, and having a place of business,�;
(ii) in the closing words, omit �relevant�;
(c) for the definition of �relevant fishing boat� substitute�
��relevant fishing boat� means a British fishing boat other than a fishing boat�
(a) which is registered in the United Kingdom under Part 2 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, and
(b) whose entry in the register specifies a port in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland as the port to which the boat is to be treated as belonging;�;
(d) at the end insert�
��sea fishing licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply by virtue of regulation 1(2)(a) or (b).�
(4) In regulation 3 (communication of licences and notices)�
(a) in paragraph (1), for the words from �the owner� to the end substitute �an appropriate recipient (�P�);
(b) after that paragraph insert�
�(1A) In this regulation, �an appropriate recipient� means�
(a) in relation to a licence or notice relating to a relevant fishing boat�
(i) the owner or charterer of the fishing boat, or
(ii) a nominee of that owner or charterer; and
(b) in relation to a licence or notice relating to any other fishing boat, the owner or charterer of the fishing boat.�;
(c) omit paragraph (8).
Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2014
6F (1) The Sea Fishing (Licences and Notices) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2014 (S.R.�(N.I.)�2014 No.�209) are amended as follows.
(2) In regulation 1 (citation, commencement and application), for paragraph (2) substitute�
�(2) These Regulations apply in relation to�
(a) licences granted under section 10 of the Fisheries Act 2019 (licensing of British fishing boats) in respect of Northern Ireland fishing boats;
(b) licences granted under section 12 of that Act (licensing of foreign fishing boats) by the Department; and
(c) licences granted under section 4A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967 (licensing of vessels receiving trans-shipped fish)�
(i) in respect of Northern Ireland fishing boats, or
(ii) by the Department in respect of foreign fishing boats.�
(3) In regulation 2 (interpretation)�
(a) in the definition of �the Department�, for �of Agriculture and Rural Development� substitute �of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs�;
(b) for the definition of �licence� substitute�
��licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply (see regulation 1(2));�;
(c) in the definition of �nominee�-
(i) in paragraph (b) for �in a member State of the European Union and having a place of business� substitute �, and having a place of business,�;
(ii) in the closing words, omit �Northern Ireland�;
(d) for the definition of �Northern Ireland fishing boat� substitute�
��Northern Ireland fishing boat� means a fishing boat�
(a) which is registered in the United Kingdom under Part 2 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, and
(b) whose entry in the register specifies a port in Northern Ireland as the port to which the boat is to be treated as belonging;�;
(e) for the definition of �sea fishing licence� substitute�
��sea fishing licence� means a licence to which these regulations apply by virtue of regulation 1(2)(a) or (b).�
(4) In regulation 3 (manner in which a licence is granted etc)�
(a) in paragraph (1)�
(i) omit �Northern Ireland�;
(ii) for the words from �the owner or charterer of the boat� to the end substitute �an appropriate recipient (�the recipient�);
(b) after that paragraph insert�
�(1A) In this regulation, �an appropriate recipient� means�
(a) in relation to a licence or notice relating to a Northern Ireland fishing boat�
(i) the owner or charterer of the fishing boat, or
(ii) a nominee of that owner or charterer; and
(b) in relation to a licence or notice relating to any other fishing boat, the owner or charterer of the fishing boat.�;
(c) in paragraph (3), for the words from �the owner or charterer � to the end substitute �an appropriate recipient (�the recipient�).��(George Eustice.)
This amendment would add to Schedule 3 minor and consequential amendments of certain statutory instruments relating to the licensing of fishing boats, including (at the request of the devolved administrations) statutory instruments amendable by the devolved administrations.
Schedule 3, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 18
Power of Secretary of State to determine fishing opportunities
Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move amendment 58, in clause 18, page 9, line 40, leave out �may� and insert �must�.
This amendment would require the Secretary of State to determine fishing opportunities.
It is good to see you back in the Chair, Mr Hanson. The amazing thing about fish is that they are a replenishable resource if used correctly. We can all agree that if there were no fish in the sea, there would be no fishing industry. It is one of those inalienable truths that the Minister spoke of on the first day in Committee that Parliament is sovereign, which is a good debate to have, and that fish are a public good, as I hope to see in the Bill in due course.
This amendment would turn clause 18 into a duty and force the Secretary of State to commit to determining fishing opportunities annually, to determine the maximum quantity of fish that could be caught by British boats. If we are serious about preventing overfishing, the amendment is vital.
This is another example of the Government�s failure to take the issue of sustainability seriously, as it has not been included in the Bill. If it had been up to Labour, we would have called the Bill the �Sustainable Fisheries Bill�. The short title would have been the �Sustainable Fisheries Act 2019�. I understand we are not allowed to change the short title, so we could not table an amendment to do that.
In yesterday�s sitting of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Martin Salter, formerly a Member of the House who now represents the Angling Trust, raised concerns about the lack of care given to sustainability, when he said that the Fisheries Bill falls short of the White Paper and is much weaker than the common fisheries policy in binding Ministers to fishing sustainably. In July 2017, the Environment Secretary, the self-described �shy green�, said on �The Andrew Marr Show� that the common fisheries policy was an �environmental disaster� and that leaving it would ensure that Britain could
�have sustainable fish stocks for the future.�
Given that, it is important that there should be a commitment to stop overfishing.
On global fish stocks, 29% are overfished, 61% are fully fished and 10% are underfished. The UK has a leading role to play in stopping that overfishing. A 2006 article by Charles Clover, the then environment editor of The Daily Telegraph, who now heads the Blue Marine Foundation, said that if the rate of overfishing continued the world�s currently fished seafoods would reach what is defined as collapse by 2048. The World Wide Fund for Nature said this year that, worldwide, overfishing is one of the biggest threats to the health of seas and their inhabitants.
Today, each person eats on average 19.2 kg of fish a year, which is quite an image to put before ourselves�that is twice the amount people ate about 50 years ago. In 2013, about 93 million tonnes of fish were caught worldwide. Illegal and unregulated fishing constitutes an estimated 11 million to 26 million tonnes�about 12% to 28% of fishing worldwide. Almost 30% of fish stocks that are commercially fished are overfished. More than 50% of our imports are fully fished from developing countries. Over just 40 years, there has been a decrease in recorded marine species of about 39%. That is very worrying.
Overall, according to the Government�s own data, there has been a decline in commercial landings in the UK from around 300,000 tonnes of demersal species to less than 20,000 tonnes during the past 40 years. When thinking about landings, we should bear it in mind that in 2015-16 technology in relation to fish location and fishing gear was of an altogether different magnitude compared with the �70s, making many of the figures all the more alarming.
There is a global crisis and the need for the UK to lead the way is quite apparent. We cannot hide away from our responsibilities and the amendment would close the loophole that allows for overfishing beyond scientific levels. I urge Members to vote with us to protect our oceans from the curse of the �tragedy of the commons�.
George Eustice
There are a number of other amendments to clause 18 and I would like to cover some of the broader issues that the hon. Gentleman raised in relation to those later amendments.
George Eustice
Yes, exactly, but I shall address the point of amendment 58, which is simply to provide that under clause 18(1) the Secretary of State �must� rather than �may� make the determination in question for a calendar year.
The amendment is unnecessary and potentially counterproductive. Subsection (2) already makes it clear that the power will be used only in the context of international negotiations on quota species. The difficulty with introducing the word �must� is that that would have the perverse effect of requiring the Secretary of State to set the maximum quantity of sea fish for all sea fish, whether or not they were subject to quota. Species such as pilchards, which we get a lot of in the west country, and lemon sole and squid, which will be important to many fishermen in the hon. Gentleman�s constituency, are not currently subject to catch quotas. We do not want to introduce a requirement that they should be. We intend to use the power only for quota stocks.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not see a need to press the amendment, which would require us to set limits on all sorts of species where limits are not currently deemed necessary.
Luke Pollard
The amendment is intended to get a commitment from the Minister to seek not to set levels above those that are scientifically proven, and to prevent overfishing. The requirement to set that level is important and one we will revisit in future amendments. On the basis of the Minister�s comments and the fact that we will come to those other amendments, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Luke Pollard
Forgive me, I had no idea that I would be speaking so frequently. In Tuesday�s sitting, the Opposition were shocked to see the Government vote against an amendment that would have secured a level playing field in environmental standards for UK boats and non-UK boats using a UK licence in our waters. Time and again, the Minister�s tagline when it comes to fisheries has been �take back control,� but without this amendment we will have little control over what non-UK boats do in our waters, if the maximum of fish they can catch is not set.
In speaking to these amendments, we want to reacquaint ourselves with that notion of a level playing field and to have it in the Bill, so that there is no doubt about the difference between UK boats and boats from our European Union and Norwegian friends, in ensuring there is a level playing field at all times.
George Eustice
Although I understand the intention behind the amendment, I am afraid that it is, in my view, misplaced and this point is being raised with respect to the wrong clause, for reasons I will explain.
Foreign boats do not fish against UK quota limits, so they do not hold any rights to be managed under the terms of the clause. Only British fishing boats can fish against UK quota. British fishing boats are defined as those that are registered in the UK, are British-owned or are registered in the Crown dependencies. UK-flagged boats that are owned or part-owned by foreigners, as we discussed earlier, are covered by the economic link, but foreign-flagged vessels that have access to UK waters gain their quota from the foreign state that issues its share of the quota.
A French vessel fishing in UK waters off the coast of Devon is not accessing British quota, but is fishing against a quota allocated to it by the French Government. Clause 18 is very much about giving the British Government the power to set limits for British fishing boats. Separately, in other parts of the Bill, there are powers to grant access to foreign vessels, but we will not be giving British quota to those foreign vessels; they will be fishing against the entitlement from their flag state.
Luke Pollard
I thank the Minister for that clarification, but looking at the Public Gallery I see a few screwed-up faces, as if to say that foreign boats have to fish under British quota currently.
George Eustice
As I explained, there are foreign-owned British vessels, but that is different from saying that foreign vessels fish against British quota. They simply do not. French vessels in UK waters are not fishing against British quota; they are fishing against quota allocated to them by the French Government.
Luke Pollard
I suspect that this is an item we will revisit when considering a later amendment, so on that basis I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. I rise briefly to support my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport and the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland and the spirit and intention behind all the amendments.
It seems to me quite straightforward that the Bill takes a retrograde step by not including MSY, which is so clearly hard-wired into the CFP and into UN sustainability goal 14. The Minister has on other occasions argued that including it is unnecessary, on the basis that it is captured by the Bill�s intention to not harvest biomass at levels above MSY.
However, it should worry us all that the real experts in this area�those in the third sector concerned with conservation in our seas�clearly see it as a mis-step by the Government not to put MSY in the Bill in the way that other legislatures have, including in Australia, New Zealand, the States and Canada, especially as the evidence from our own waters and elsewhere is that MSY targets have been very effective. Hake and North sea plaice are two recent examples of stocks recovering brilliantly as a result of MSY policy. I therefore cannot understand why the Minister is so coy about maintaining this standard.
The concern, bluntly, is that not including MSY in the Bill will give this or any future Government the wriggle room not to pursue sustainable fishing policies and to set catch levels above MSY, out of line with scientific evidence. If that is not the case, the Minister, who is evidently very expert in this field, has to explain to us, the House, the wider industry and those concerned with conserving stocks in our seas why he is determined not to put MSY in the Bill, which seems to fly in the face of the evidence.
George Eustice
Let me make clear from the outset to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland that we are not walking away from the principle of MSY, and to the hon. Member for Pontypridd that MSY is indeed in the Bill. It is right there in clause 1(3)(b):
�to ensure that exploitation of living marine biological resources restores and maintains populations of harvested species above biomass levels capable of producing maximum sustainable yield.�
The only bit that is not in the Bill but is in the current EU regulation, which was drafted as long ago as 2013, is the 2020 target.
As I have described, it makes no sense whatever to include a statutory target that will already have lapsed and expired in a Bill that will probably not commence until January 2021 or the end of 2020. The right place to reflect any kind of timescale or commitments, or even on species, is in that joint fisheries statement, which will describe how all the Administrations will work together to deliver those objectives, including MSY. I therefore put it to hon. Members that the right way to replace the EU legislative commitment of 2020 is not to have an already-expired date in the Bill, but to reflect that commitment in the joint fisheries statement.
The other issue relates to effort and setting the maximum number of days that British boats may spend at sea. All the amendments, including the one tabled by the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, would delete clause 18(1)(b), which covers the maximum number of days at sea. As he seemed to acknowledge, that would be counter-productive, as we already have something called the western waters regime, which is an effort-based regime that regulates the catches of crab, and in particular of scallops, of the over-15 metre sector.
Hon. Members may recall that scallops are a part of the fishery that can lead to conflict at times, not least over the summer. There are fishermen fishing out of Brixham, not far from the hon. Gentleman�s constituency, who have an allocation of kilowatt-hours at sea to catch scallops in the EU exclusive economic zone�in other words, on the French side of the channel. If we were to make it unlawful to allocate days at sea, the hon. Gentleman would have a scallop war of his own, probably outside his constituency, because he would find that those scallop fishermen would no longer be able to access French waters because we would no longer be participating in the western waters regime.
Luke Pollard
I invite the Minister to look at amendment 105, because we do not actually suggest deleting clause 18(1)(b). We suggest that
�No determination may be made�
under it, unless a trial has been completed. I would be grateful if he corrected his remarks.
George Eustice
My understanding, on the basis of my notes, is that amendment 59 would also delete clause 18(1)(b). It may be that the hon. Gentleman did not intend that to happen, but that amendment, which I understand is in his name, would also remove it.
I will make a point about amendment 105. Again, the western waters regime is already established and happening, so we would not necessarily want to subject it to a trial before being able to make any such determination, because if we were to leave the EU without an agreement at the end of March, we would nevertheless want to have some discussions and reach some agreements on scallops quickly.
Luke Pollard
Amendment 59 would actually be added at the end of line 4, rather than replacing it, so it would not remove it as the Minister has said. I appreciate that his notes on the amendment may be somewhat different, so perhaps he wants to reflect that in his remarks.
The Chair
It may help the Minister and the Opposition if I say that, as far as I can read, there are no deletions, only additions in amendment 59.
George Eustice
In which case, I withdraw the comments that I made in the context of amendment 59. I am afraid that the speaking notes that I have been given have an error in them.
On an effort-based regime, the wider point is that we made a clear commitment in the White Paper to explore the idea of using an effort-based regime, particularly for the inshore fleet. Sometimes, when small amounts of quota are attached to vessels�for instance, little more than 20 kilos of cod a month�it is very difficult and administratively burdensome to operate such a scheme.
We were clear that we would pilot an effort-based regime, because we recognise that there are also risks in moving to one. Generally speaking, such regimes work well for low-impact mixed fisheries where it is harder to run a quota scheme. Quota schemes work best in the pelagic sector, where a single species can be accurately targeted.
We have not made reference to an effort-based regime in the Bill because we do not need to. The Bill gives us all the powers we need to run such a pilot before considering rolling it out. Our White Paper was also clear that, for the time being, we will use existing fixed quota allocations as the basis for fishing opportunities. It is already implicit in our commitment to that effect that we are not going to make a rash move to an effort-based regime, but it could have a role for some of those inshore under-10 metre vessels. That is why we have said that we will consider a pilot.
Owen Smith
I may have missed my chance, as the Minister sat down rather briskly, but I was merely trying to ascertain something. I fully accept that the Government are clearly trying, in the language in the initial clause in respect to objectives, to state that they want to set catch limits in line with MSY, but is there anything in the Bill that would prevent Ministers in future from diverging from that and setting catch limits above MSY? As far as I can see, there is nothing that would stop Ministers from doing that, if they chose. That is the reason for wanting a rather tougher duty on Ministers to ensure they adhere to those limits.
George Eustice
We received some interesting evidence on this from Dr Carl O�Brien from the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science, who is the leading expert on this. I know that a number of green NGOs have suggested that they would like to see the language tightened here, but we have to listen to those who have the greatest experience in managing maximum sustainable yield and in calculating the measurements, and direct experience of the negotiations. As he pointed out, there are two dangers. In a mixed fishery it is simply a scientific impossibility to set every species at MSY. When they are in a mixed fishery, it is necessary to place some at the lower end of the MSY range and some at the upper end. There will be challenges, as we have heard with choke species.
Secondly, Norway, for example, uses MSY as one of its guides, but not its only guide�it uses other scientific metrics as well. There will be times when it will make sense for us to reach an accommodation with countries such as Norway about the shared management of a shared stock, in order to ensure we have sustainable fishing. If we do not allow ourselves any flexibility to broach such a discussion with Norway and reach such an agreement, the only outcome is that everybody walks away from the table without an agreement and unilaterally sets their own fishing opportunities, which is the worst of all worlds for our marine environment.
This is a complex area, but it is right to have that statutory commitment in clause 1�a statutory requirement to have a plan that demonstrates how we will reach that commitment, while recognising that we will always needs some flexibility, due to the complexity of the marine environment.
Mr Carmichael
To deal with the question of days at sea first, as I said, these are probing amendments. The Minister�s comments are helpful and it is useful to have them on the record, so, as I indicated earlier, I do not intend to push the amendment to a Division.
However, I want to tease out the Minister�s thinking about amendment 25 a bit more. His objection to amendment 25 is twofold. First, he says these things can be put into the fisheries statement, which is absolutely correct. Secondly, he says that this commitment will have to be met by the time the legislation comes into effect. I see no problem with that. For us to say that by the time we implement this we should have got to this point is not a criticism of the amendment at all.
The Minister�s point about the fisheries statement is interesting. He is right: that is the good and sensible place for maximum sustainable yield to be enshrined, but there is no guarantee that it will be. As we know, the fisheries statement will be subject to a negotiation between four Administrations. There might be any number of reasons why maximum sustainable yield might fall from that particular safety net. If, for any reason, it were not to form part of the fisheries statement, there is nothing else in the Bill that would enshrine maximum sustainable yield as the guiding principle. For that reason, I am not persuaded by the Minister�s assurances and will press amendment 25 to a division.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
Luke Pollard
The principles contained in amendments 28 and 29 are good ones, as they deal with how to make sure that we are fishing sustainably.
Amendment 62, which we are also considering, talks about the need for baseline stock assessments by 2030. The reason I tabled that amendment is to try to get the Minister to set out his position on making sure that we are addressing data deficiency. A key reason why our fisheries cannot be classed as sustainable�as we have spoken about in previous sittings of this Committee�is that there is a deficiency of the data that guarantees those fish stocks are sustainable. Making a baseline stock assessment, especially of some of the non-quota species that are under severe pressure, is an important step towards achieving fully sustainable fisheries.
The Minister will know, for instance, about the importance of cuttlefish to the south-west�s mixed fisheries and to fishing fleets in the west country. The lack of a decent level of data regarding cuttlefish is one of the concerns about the future sustainability of that industry, especially as stock levels are going up and down. This year in particular, fishers have reported an alarming rise in smaller cuttlefish coming through where, in the past, they expected larger ones. The purpose of amendment 62 and, I believe, of the amendments tabled by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland�the sentiment of which we can support�is to get better data, to make sure that no fishing levels are being set above the scientific data level.
George Eustice
I am grateful for this opportunity to explain the approach that we currently take to data-limited stocks, how we have refined that approach in recent years, and what we might do in future.
The International Council for the Exploration of the Sea has six categories of stock, according to the level of data and the analysis that are available. Categories 1 and 2 cover those stocks for which there is judged to be sufficient data for us to do a full forecast or a full stock assessment. Those are the stocks for which we use the maximum sustainable yield approach. Categories 3 and 4 cover the majority of our so-called data-limited stocks�those for which we have some reliable stock indicators but cannot do a full stock assessment. Category 5 covers those stocks for which we have little or no scientific data available other than the landings data. Category 6 covers those species for which there are negligible landings�typically those that are a bycatch only.
For category 3 and category 4 stocks, where we have some reliable stock indicators, the UK has been in the vanguard in the last few years in developing a methodology based on stock trends and biomass trends. My argument has always been that we should make the best assessment that we can with the knowledge that we have, rather than use too many other arbitrary proxies. Stock trends have therefore become the new methodology that we have tended to adopt for most of our data-limited stocks, where we have reliable stock indicators.
For category 5 and category 6 stocks, for which we really have only landings data, we do not really have any other option than to adopt quite arbitrary approaches to how we manage them. Typically, they tend to fall into two categories. One is called �use it or lose it��if a stock is not caught in sufficient quantities in the previous year, the quota is simply reduced to the level at which it was caught, and the landings are used as a proxy for the health of the stock. The other is the so-called precautionary principle, which is an automatic 20% cut, year on year, in the absence of data. That is also used on some of those very data-poor stocks.
Obviously, we want to improve the quality of the data, and we want to move more species to a full stock assessment so that we can do MSY. For instance, in the last two years we have moved megrim in area VII to a full stock assessment�previously it was data-limited. We want to make further progress on that. Dr Carl O�Brien explained some of the difficulties in his evidence. Some species are quite difficult to age, because the methodology where their eardrums are measured to work out their age is hard to use. With some species, there are technical challenges to getting to a full stock assessment. Nevertheless, we should continue to work to improve that, and to get more of those data-limited stocks into categories 1 and 2.
Finally, in his evidence, Dr Carl O�Brien said:
�I think you would be surprised how much evidence has been gathered for non-quota species. Seafish had a project called Project Inshore, which I think is now in its second phase, looking mainly at shellfish species.���[Official Report, Fisheries Public Bill Committee, 6 December 2018; c. 112, Q216.]
There is a lot of work going on to assess the health of scallop stocks and crabs, for instance. Quite a lot of data has been collected through Project Inshore. Obviously there is more to do, but a lot has been done, and work continues to be done in that space.
Luke Pollard
I am grateful for those remarks. The purpose of amendment 62 was also to try to put a date on when we will have better evidence. The fact that we have better science than people are aware of is useful, but does the Minister have any idea when we will have firm dates when data-deficient species will reach those points?
George Eustice
I do not have that data now, but I would be willing to bring the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science�s current projections to the House on Report. The hon. Gentleman will understand that, although I have been in this job a number of years and understand quite a lot about the science, I am not a fisheries scientist. It is an incredibly technical, complex area, and I rely on advisers such as Carl to assist on it. I will happily give the most detailed update that we can on Report about the progress on moving some of the data-limited category 3 and 4 stocks to full stock assessments.
Luke Pollard
I rise to speak, briefly, in support of the hon. Gentleman�s amendment. When we are talking about allocating fishing opportunities, it is important that Parliament is given the opportunity to scrutinise them, especially at the start of a new fisheries period for our country, to ensure that the allocations carry the confidence of the fishing industry that they are being allocated in a robust way.
George Eustice
This is a similar discussion to the one we had earlier on the use of the negative resolution procedure rather than the affirmative resolution procedure.
As I said earlier, the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee considered the Bill and said that of its 15 delegated powers that require a parliamentary procedure, only four are solely governed by the negative procedure, and justifiably so. I will explain to my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney why I think the negative procedure is justified in this particular instance.
Clause 18(1) replaces powers that are similar to those set out in section 4(6) of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, and those are also made under the negative procedure. We followed the approach that has been taken not only while we have been in the European Union, but even before we were in the European Union, to have the negative procedure in relation to this measure.
I point out to my hon. Friend that the actual power to determine the number of days at sea is a straightforward power that the Secretary of State has without even the need for regulations, under clause 18(3), and the issue in subsection (8) is that,
�The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for determining, for the purposes of this Act, the number of days in a calendar year that a fishing boat is to be regarded as spending at sea�.
The purpose of the regulations is to establish what happens if they do six hours. Is that half a day or part of a day? The regulations basically govern how we measure a day at sea and whether it should be, as in some cases, kilowatt-hours at sea or a straightforward days-at-sea measure. It is because we may use slightly different effort measurements in different sectors that we need to be able to define in the regulations what a day at sea is. The power to determine the days at sea is a flexible power that the Secretary of State will have, and always has had, so that we can manage our fisheries effectively.
Peter Aldous
I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. He went into a fair bit of technical detail. As I mentioned, this is a big issue for our new regime and there are organisations on both sides of the argument that feel passionately about the issue of days at sea. I will not press the amendment to a vote at this stage, but I will take counsel between now and Report. If I have any concerns, I will pass them on to the Minister then. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
The Chair
We now come to clause 18 stand part. We have had a reasonable discussion, but it is a central clause with lots of subsections. If Members wish to speak to it, I am happy to take contributions.
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
George Eustice
Briefly, clause 18 sets out in legislation the power of the Secretary of State to determine the UK�s fishing opportunities. He can do that by setting out the maximum quantity of sea fish that may be caught by British fishing boats and of days that British fishing boats may spend at sea in a calendar year. The effect of clause 18 is that the Secretary of State can ensure that the UK complies with its obligations to determine fishing opportunities, in line with international agreements.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 18 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 19
Duties relating to a determination of fishing opportunities
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
I beg to move amendment 2, in clause�19,�page�10,�line�38,�at end insert�
�(A1) A determination under section 18 may not be made or withdrawn without the consent of the Scottish Ministers.�
Owen Smith
It is again a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. I did not intend to speak to these amendments, but as a former shadow Secretary of State for Wales and for Northern Ireland I have a few things to say.
I heard with interest the contribution from the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute�the beautiful Argyll and Bute. I would say straightforwardly that I think he is wrong to say that the clause is contrary to the devolution settlement�I think the reverse is true. The clause reflects the current devolution settlement. It is for the UK as the sovereign body to determine our engagement with and adherence to international treaties, and to therefore determine what the fishing opportunities for the whole of the UK would be, in accordance with the agreements that are reached internationally on fishing.
My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East is completely right that the reality of the amendments is that they seek to change the devolution settlement by the back door. Given the long-standing and perfectly admirable�although, in my view, entirely wrong-headed�view of the SNP that it wishes to have an independent Scotland, it is entirely understandable that it should try to use this mechanism to get closer to that objective, but it is the wrong mechanism and the wrong Bill in which to seek to fundamentally change the nature of our devolution settlement, and my colleagues on the Front Bench are completely right to oppose it.
I would also add that I cannot understand the value of striking Scottish Ministers out of clause 19. That would be a retrograde step because it would mean no consultation with Scottish Ministers, which would be a fundamental mistake.
George Eustice
The purpose of clause 19 is to establish a requirement for the Secretary of State to consult the devolved Administrations. As other hon. Members have pointed out, this matter and the powers outlined in clause 18 are incontrovertibly a reserved UK matter. The amendment would undermine the power of the UK to determine UK resources for the purposes of international law, and relates directly to a UK function.
Where the UK is subject to an international obligation to achieve a result by reference to a fixed quantity for the UK as a whole, the UK Government are responsible for determining how that is achieved. In this case, the responsibility will fall on the UK, under the UN convention on the law of the sea, after we leave the EU.
Compliance with or implementation of international obligations is devolved, but determining UK fishing opportunities is not a function that is exercisable separately in or as regards Scotland or any other part of the UK. It is not within devolved competence to determine, or to block the UK Government from determining, fishing opportunities for the UK as a whole.
Clause 18(2) explicitly sets out:
�A determination under subsection (1) may be made only for the purpose of complying with an international obligation of the United Kingdom to determine the fishing opportunities of the United Kingdom.�
It makes crystal clear the scope of clause 18. It cannot relate to any devolved matter at all; it can relate only to matters relating to the UK�s compliance with international obligations. It would therefore not be appropriate to seek consent from any devolved Administration when determining fishing opportunities. In clause 19, we set out something that we think is reasonable: a requirement to consult.
Brendan O'Hara
I thank the Minister for his reply. As I said on day one, the Scottish Government and Scottish Government officials have worked very closely with him and his officials�for which we are very grateful�and this was one of the few major sticking points. I am disappointed that we do not appear to be able to take this further, but I reiterate that we believe that the amendment is entirely in line with the Scotland Act 1998, and I will therefore press it to a vote.
I am disappointed but not at all surprised by the contribution of the hon. Member for Glasgow North East. Members of the Scottish National party are here at least to defend the devolution settlement, which makes it perfectly clear that if a matter is not reserved, it is devolved. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun said, the powers that come back from Europe should go to the relevant devolved authority. In this case, I believe it should be the Scottish Parliament. That is why a legislative consent motion should be sought, rather than simply consultation.
George Eustice
I appreciate that my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney is a long-standing campaigner on these issues. He will know that the Government have taken a number of steps to give additional quota to the inshore pool. My predecessor took unused FQA units from producer organisations to give extra fishing opportunities to the inshore pool. For my part, I have top-sliced the discard ban uplift to give additional fishing opportunities to the pool, and we have made it clear that we intend to do more. As I outlined earlier, our approach to the allocation of fishing opportunities will be, for the time being, to retain some stability by allowing existing opportunities to continue to follow the FQA lines, but we have been clear that any new fishing opportunities that come as we depart from relative stability will be allocated on a different basis, as a first step.
I have made it clear that we have at least three approaches under consideration. One is indeed to give additional fishing opportunities to the inshore pool so that our inshore fleet, which, as my hon. Friend points out, often lacks fishing opportunities, will have more fishing opportunities as we depart from relative stability. Secondly, we have outlined our plans to create a national reserve of quota that can be used to help to make the discard ban work as well in practice as in theory. Finally, we outline in other places in the Bill the power to tender new fishing opportunities to producer organisations based on their environmental track record and on what they give back to communities.
I believe that all those things, taken together, mean that, in our White Paper and in the powers that we are taking in this Bill, we have the socioeconomic interests of coastal communities at heart. The Secretary of State plan outlined in clause 2 is explicit about ensuring that we take account of and have a plan for those coastal communities that depend on fishing for their livelihoods. I have already given my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney an undertaking that we will seek to tweak some of the language in that provision, but when it comes to the question whether fish is a public asset, it is incontrovertibly the case that it is. We had a debate earlier about our common law tradition, and in a test case brought by the producer organisations, Mr Justice Cranston cited Magna Carta, no less, to say that fish stocks were a public resource. Specifically, he said:
�Consequently there can be no property right in fish until they are caught. That submission was a useful reminder but common ground.�
The fact that fish are a public asset is beyond question, and I do not believe that that needs to be placed in the Bill, but I am happy, as I said under an earlier group of amendments, to consider the Secretary of State fisheries statement to see whether we can more specifically address the point that my hon. Friend has in mind regarding fishing opportunities.
Mr Carmichael
That is helpful, but I am not entirely sure about the hon. Gentleman�s distinction between redistribution and nationalisation. At the end of the day, we risk spending public money. I am not averse to that�it may ultimately be necessary, and I can certainly see the end that is to be met by it�but at the moment it is a little ill-defined. I would favour an approach that dealt differently with the returning quota, rather than mucking about with the existing quota. I am not averse to the idea, but we should not be blind to the risks that come with it.
George Eustice
The purpose of clause 20 is predominantly to bring across article 17 from the European Union and make it operable. Article 17 will come across as retained EU law. All we are seeking to do is to make changes that make it operable and preserve its intent.
Article 17 states:
�When allocating the fishing opportunities available to them�Member States shall use transparent and objective criteria including those of an environmental, social and economic nature. The criteria to be used may include, inter alia, the impact of fishing on the environment, the history of compliance, the contribution to the local economy and historic catch levels. Within the fishing opportunities allocated to them, Member States shall endeavour to provide incentives to fishing vessels deploying selective fishing gear or using fishing techniques with reduced environmental impact�.
I believe that article 17, as currently worded, captures many of the intentions behind this amendment and the last one moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney.
There is a technical issue with the way amendment 106 is drafted. It does not make specific reference to fixed quota allocations�FQA units�as a basis; it simply talks about trying to redistribute historical fishing opportunities. It is therefore trying to reallocate opportunities that have already been spent�the quota that were attached to the FQA units. I would argue that, from a technical point of view, it would make more sense to have made reference to FQA units.
Greenpeace has had a longstanding campaign on article 17, since at least 2015. In 2016, it brought a judicial review against the Government, arguing that we had not complied with article 17, and it was roundly defeated in that case. Mrs Justice Andrews stated during the case that
�there is a large volume of detailed rules, licence conditions, schemes and policies, including the Concordat and the Quota Management Regulations�which are published and openly available and which have been notified to the Commission. There is ample evidence that they include environmental criteria as required by Article 17, and that far from paying them lip service, they are afforded proper weight in the allocation process.�
The judgment of the European Court of Auditors was that the case brought by Greenpeace was wrong.
Greenpeace has had a longstanding campaign on article 17, but in my view it has been barking up the wrong tree. The truth is that if we want to address the issue of fishing opportunities for the inshore sector, we should not do it by clinging to some article in residual EU law. The correct way to do it is to include, as I have committed to my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney that I will, a reference to fishing opportunities in the Secretary of State�s fishing statement, where it directly links to the socioeconomic impacts on coastal communities�not to attempt to play with the wording of article 17.
Peter Aldous
I beg to move amendment 85, in clause�20,�page�11,�line�32,�at end insert�
�(c) the Scottish Ministers,
(d) the Welsh Ministers, and
(e) the Northern Ireland department.�
The amendment would require that all �national authorities� in fisheries that must abide by the new approach to fishing opportunity distribution includes devolved Administration Ministers as well as the Secretary of State and the Marine Management Organisation.
I should point out that this would not interfere with devolved powers over fisheries. It would, as the CFP does already, simply set the legal mandate for future distribution criteria according to environmental, social and local economic factors. The actual process beyond that of identifying and agreeing the criteria through consultation with experts and the public, plus any administrative approach locally, would be in the hands of the devolved Administrations and not the Westminster Government. I would welcome it if the Minister could clarify the issues and set out what he believes to be the right procedure to deal with them.
Mr Sweeney
It seems that we are in violent agreement on some things�we cannot do wrong for doing right, can we? Interestingly, I think that adding the amendment to the Bill would define the process and make it clear. That is why we also supported a clear dispute resolution mechanism being in the Bill. That, too, would have provided a clear, unequivocal process that would have allowed us to resolve these problems with the different partners in the UK. I have to say that I was rather disappointed that the SNP abstained on that amendment, but we are where we are. I think this is a worthwhile measure and it will be helpful for us to proceed on this basis. I urge the Minister, in good faith, to support it to bind our Union together even more.
George Eustice
The simple reason that we have not included the Scottish Ministers, Welsh Ministers and Northern Ireland Department in this particular clause is that they did not want us to do so on their behalf.
As I have said many times, the Bill sits within the devolved settlement and it is for each Administration to make the changes that are needed to retained EU law to make it operable. The devolved Administrations are currently drafting many statutory instruments and other legislative vehicles to make retained EU law operable. In this Bill, we have chosen to make the changes that are necessary to make article 17 operable. None of the other devolved Administrations wanted us to include that in the Bill on their behalf. That may be because they intend to address these issues through legislation of their own.
Owen Smith
This is not something I can prove, but I understand from talking to colleagues in the Welsh Government that in an early draft of this clause, the Welsh Administration and others were included in subsection (6). I want to know why they were taken out.
George Eustice
My understanding is that the Labour Administration in Wales asked for it to be taken out. They no longer wished to be included in this clause. Clearly, hon. Members can ask a legitimate question: does that mean that no other part of the UK intends to abide by article 17 and are content to leave it inoperable; do they intend to address it in a different way; or have they not yet considered it, but might like us to add them to the list in subsection (6) at a later stage of the Bill�s passage? I will undertake further conversations with the devolved Administrations between now and Report to understand their intentions.
I hope hon. Members will understand that we respect the devolution settlement. Without the permission of the devolved Administrations, it is not proper for us to accept this amendment, since it is a devolved matter, but it is certainly an issue where we could have further conversations with the devolved Administrations ahead of Report.
Peter Aldous
On the basis that the Minister will seek clarification from the devolved Administrations on how they wish to handle this issue, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Luke Pollard
The argument in favour of the amendment has been powerfully put by the hon. Member for Waveney, but the sentiment is worth echoing. It is really important that, as we set up a new fisheries management system after Brexit, fishers have confidence in that new system. As we have heard, there is a great deal of suspicion about how the current quotas are allocated, and the ability to have that available for public scrutiny is important. We support the amendment.
George Eustice
The methodology for distributing existing quota between the four Administrations is set out in the publicly available UK quota management rules. In addition, each Administration have their own rules for allocating their existing quota, which, again, are already publicly available. The rules are also subject to consultation.
In our White Paper, we set out very clearly that we would have a revised methodology for the allocations, and it is of course our intention that they will be published. I understand the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney, but I encourage him to read what we already publish before taking the decision to press the amendment to a Division. We already have publicly available rules, which are published, and we have committed to publish new ones. We publish a great deal of information.
As I highlighted earlier, in the judgment in the Greenpeace court case, Mrs Justice Andrews said that
�there is a large volume of detailed rules, licence conditions, schemes and policies...which are published and openly available and which have been notified to the Commission.�
A vast amount of information is already published. I would like to share some of those documents with my hon. Friend for his weekend reading, and then he could consider whether he still has a hunger for more statutory requirements of this nature.
Peter Aldous
I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, and I take on board the nature in which he makes that offer. Over the years, so much suspicion has grown up over this issue. I feel that there is a need for transparency so that the industry and the public can have confidence in the system. I do think it appropriate to have what is a fairly minor amendment in the Bill, and therefore I will press it to a vote.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
Peter Aldous
As I have said, the devolved Administrations would have a full role in this process; that should not present a problem.
This new approach would result in European companies that currently control UK quotas having to respond and show why they should keep this quota on the UK terms, and they would have to address the principles of sustainability and local employment. That approach is compatible with article 17 of the common fisheries policy and it would not be challenged by any other members of the EU. I look forward to hearing the Minister�s response.
George Eustice
Clause 20 simply revokes CFP rules on the distribution of fishing opportunities to EU member states, according to relative stability. Therefore, these rules will not be part of retained EU law.
Subsection (1) revokes article 16 of the common fisheries regulation. That article provides for the Council to distribute fishing opportunities to member states, which obviously will no longer apply when we leave the European Union. Subsection (2), which we have debated in some detail, simply makes article 17 of the CFP operable in the UK.
I turn now to new clause 19, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney. We have rehearsed many of the points in our consideration of earlier measures and amendments, so I will not dwell on them in detail. I have already pointed out that I do not believe that we need a statement that fisheries resources are a national asset or public property, because that is self-evidently the case and our common law has always held as much. Indeed, recent case law has held that very clearly and we have a common law tradition on some of these matters.
I have already given my hon. Friend an undertaking that we will look at the wording of the Secretary of State�s fisheries statements, so that we can consider the catch opportunities and fishing opportunities in the context of protecting coastal communities and those who depend on fishing for their living.
A number of the other elements of new clause 19 are already accommodated by article 17 of the CFP, which we have now made operable. The commitment to have transparent objectives already exists and is made operable by clause 20, so I do not believe that this proposed change is necessary.
I will also point out that the new clause would have the effect of bringing into scope the devolved Administrations when the way in which they allocate quota to their own fleet is a devolved matter. It is for the UK to allocate limits for the whole of the UK and to make determinations of allocations to each Administration, but it is for those devolved Administrations to decide how they then go on to allocate things to their own fleet.
Finally, new clause 19(6) seeks to bring the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities within the scope of this provision. I say to my hon. Friend that that is inappropriate, since we are talking here about the allocation of fishing opportunities and quotas. The IFCAs have a role in inshore fisheries conservation doing things such as setting closures and sometimes putting limits on the type of gear that might be used to catch lobsters, for instance. What the IFCAs certainly do not do is play any role in the allocation of quota.
Since we are talking predominantly about the allocation of opportunities to fish quota species, it is not appropriate to bring the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities within the scope of this part of the Bill. I hope, therefore, that my hon. Friend will see fit to not press his new clause.
Luke Pollard
I beg to move amendment 107, in clause�21,�page�12,�line�5,�at end insert�
�(4) The relevant national authorities must publish, on at least an annual basis, a comparison of the number of each species of sea fish caught and�
(a) the catch quota for that species for that year, and
(b) the FMSY reference point for that species for that year.
(5) The publication under subsection (4) must, where the number of sea fish caught in a calendar year has exceeded the figures in paragraphs (4)(a) or (4)(b), note the impact on fish stocks that exceeding that figure is thought to have had.�
This amendment would require the publication of the quantity by species of fish caught to enable the impact on the sustainability fish stocks to be assessed.
This amendment continues the theme of transparency and freedom of information. Under clause 21, the fishery authorities have a duty to ensure that fishing opportunities are not exceeded in any year, whether by catch quota or by effort quota. To be able to hold the authorities to account for the exercise of that duty, we will need to have access to full, accurate and robust information. The amendment will also ensure that we have the necessary data to improve our scientific understanding of the seas, what is in them and how to ensure that we protect and conserve them for future generations.
The amendment, which is supported by various organisations, seeks to ensure publication at least annually of the number of species caught compared with the quota for that species and the reference points for fishing mortality at maximum sustainable yield. We want the publication to include an examination of the impact on stock for that species. I am sure the Minister already has plans for the publication of some of that data, but will he set out what information will be published and what the timescale will be?
George Eustice
It is important to note that, as drafted, this amendment cuts across the devolved settlement, because it would oblige not only the UK Government but the devolved Administrations to publish the data mentioned. Before accepting an amendment of this sort, we would need to seek the views and the consent of the devolved Administrations. It would also require the collection of data for each species of fish caught. With the landing obligation, that would include many species for which we did not have catch quotas or FMSY reference points, so comparisons could not always be made.
I invite the hon. Gentleman to take some weekend reading away with him. When it comes to statistics, we have incredibly detailed documents, including one from the MMO, which I have in my hands, and another from Marine Scotland. I urge the shadow Minister to read them on his train back to Plymouth this weekend and to then consider on Report whether he has an appetite for even more statistics than those that are already available in published form.
Luke Pollard
I wondered what the Minister�s little table was for, and now I understand it is to keep his reports on. I am grateful for the additional reading material. Transparency in this new fisheries management system is important. I am happy to take the Minister�s word that he already publishes a fair amount of data. We will look at this matter again and, if that turns out not to be sufficient, he should expect us to make a return trip to this amendment on Report. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 22
Sale of English fishing opportunities for a calendar year
George Eustice
I beg to move amendment 5, in clause�22,�page�12,�line�28,�leave out paragraph (h) and insert�
�() requiring or permitting rights to be sold, or not to be sold, to a person who meets such conditions (whether relating to the price offered for the rights or otherwise) as may be specified in or in accordance with the regulations;�.
This amendment would enable regulations to require or permit issues other than price to be taken into account when deciding who to sell fishing opportunities to.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government amendment 6.
Clause stand part.
New clause 20�English Fishing Opportunities�
�(1) The English fishery shall vest in the Secretary of State and be held subject to the duties set out in this section.
(2) The powers exercisable by the Secretary of State in the management of the English fishery shall not include the power to borrow money against the English fishery.
(3) The Secretary of State, or the Marine Management Organisation or an Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority duly authorised by the Secretary of State, shall have the power to dispose of English fishing opportunities�
(a) for consideration;
(b) on the terms of a licence for a period of no more than 1 calendar year;
(c) in compliance with the criteria set out in section 20.
(4) Any licence of fishing opportunities granted pursuant to subsection (3) shall not create or transfer any proprietary right, title or interest in such fishing opportunities or in any fish before such fish are harvested by the holder.
(5) It shall be the general duty of the Secretary of State in any disposal of English fishery opportunities (whether by the Secretary of State or by the Marine Management Organisation or an Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority duly authorised by the Secretary of State) pursuant to this section to achieve appropriate consideration for any such disposal having regard to the criteria for disposal set out in section 20 and any JFS and SFSS.
(6) The Secretary of State shall by regulations make provision for the disposal of English fishing opportunities, which may include�
(a) for rights to be sold by competitive tender or auction,
(b) for a competitive tender process or auction to be run by such person as the regulations may designate,
(c) such fishing opportunities to be rented and an appropriate royalty charged,
(d) conferring functions (including functions involving the exercise of a discretion) on a person running a competitive tender process or auction, or on any other person,
(e) for terminating a competitive tender process or auction where there has been, or appears to the person running the competitive tender process or auction to have been, a failure to comply with the regulations,
(f) about how and when�
(i) payments for rights are to be made, and
(ii) payments received are to be dealt with,
(g) about appeals relating to eligibility for, or the outcome of, a tender process or auction,
(h) requiring a person running a tender process or auction to issue guidance.
(7) Fishing opportunities disposed of in accordance with this section are exercisable in relation to such fishing boats, by such persons, in such manner, and subject to such conditions, as may be specified in the terms of that disposal. In particular, the Secretary of State, or the Marine Management Organisation or an Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority duly authorised by the Secretary of State, shall have the power to, inter alia�
(a) specify persons, or descriptions of persons, who are eligible or ineligible to buy opportunities;
(b) require any person to pay a deposit, or do any other thing, in order to be eligible to buy opportunities;
(c) set limits on the opportunities that may be bought by a person or a description of persons;
(d) set a minimum price for fishing opportunities;
(e) prohibit or permit the transfer of fishing opportunities by the purchaser or the exercise of such fishing opportunities by someone other than the purchaser of those opportunities;
(f) extinguish or limit opportunities sold where any amount due in respect of them is not paid, or any condition attached to the exercise of the rights is not met;
(g) provide for the forfeit of fishing opportunities that are held by a person following a disposal under this section but not used, and for payment of compensation to that person.
(8) Regulations under this section are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.
(9) In this Act�
�English catch quota� means so much of a catch quota as would (if not disposed of in accordance with this section) be available for distribution by the Secretary of State, or the Marine Management Organisation or any Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority on behalf of the Secretary of State, for use by English fishing boats;
�English effort quota� means so much of an effort quota as would (if not disposed of in accordance with this section) be available for distribution by the Secretary of State, or the Marine Management Organisation or any Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority on behalf of the Secretary of State, for use by English fishing boats;
�English fishing opportunities� means the right to use English catch quota and English effort quota.
�Fixed Quota Allocation Units� shall have the meaning ascribed to them in the UK Quota Management Rules 2015 in so far as they apply to England.�
George Eustice
In the fisheries White Paper, we made it clear that, on leaving the EU, any additional quota we may receive during the negotiations will be distributed using different methods from the current FQA allocation system. That will be done using a range of different mechanisms. We are amending the Bill to make it clear that quota will not necessarily be put up for sale to the highest bidder. We may allocate it on a range of other criteria, such as sustainability, the needs of coastal communities and the reliance of certain sectors on specific stocks.
Amendment 6 simply includes a duty to consult stakeholders prior to making any regulations governing the distribution of additional quota. That demonstrates transparency and supports our commitment to work with stakeholders to shape a new future for the UK industry.
Luke Pollard
I am grateful that the Minister has clarified that additional quota will not be auctioned to the highest bidder. Does he feel that that is sufficient to ensure that small fishers and new entrants to the sector will not be discriminated against? There is a real fear in the fishing sector that the auction function in the Bill will mean that if either this Government or a future Government want to earn some quick cash from the sector, they will seek to auction any additional fishing opportunities to the highest bidder, further cementing the huge monopoly that the large fishing organisations already have in the sector.
George Eustice
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his brevity in making an important point. I have been very clear that one of the ways of allocating new fishing opportunities that we are considering is a competitive tender process, but the tender is not just about the price to be paid. We want to judge producer organisations on their compliance track record and what they are doing to improve selectivity and reduce their environmental impact; to encourage new entrants into the industry; and to put economic benefits back into coastal communities. I believe that is the right approach. I can confirm that, as amended, the clause will make that explicit and broaden it out to ensure that we can have the type of competitive tender process that I have talked about at many stages during the passage of the Bill.
Peter Aldous
I shall speak to new clause 20. The distribution of fishing quota to the commercial sector is one of the Government�s most important functions. As we have heard, it will, to a very large extent, determine the success or failure of the fishing industry post-Brexit. It is generally acknowledged that the current system is dysfunctional as it encourages the over-concentration of ownership and has permitted the foreign dominance of the UK fishing business�something that other EU member states have managed to avoid.
There is a concern that the current regulations do not go far enough, as there is the matter of creating a disposal mechanism of English fishing rights as well as a regulatory mechanism. The new clause seeks to address that concern. I look forward to hearing the Minister�s response.
George Eustice
My hon. Friend has tabled a very long new clause. In essence, I think it seeks to do two things. First, it talks again about a national asset. It is an aspect of quota allocation that we have discussed many times before, so I will not repeat what I have said about our common law tradition and the fact that it goes without saying that it is a national asset.
Secondly, underlying the new clause is a concern that the new method of allocation that we might adopt might create new proprietorial rights for those who are successful in the tender. I can confirm that that is exactly what we are seeking to avoid through the Bill. That is why we explicitly talk about the use of catch quota rights for a calendar year. It would be possible to have a tender that had an entitlement to a particular right that would go to several years, but it would only ever be for the duration of that tender and would terminate at the end of that process. There will be no accumulated property rights in the tender or auction process that we set out in clause 22. I therefore hope that my hon. Friend will accept that, although a great deal of work has gone into drafting his very detailed and comprehensive new clause, it is in fact unnecessary.
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Amendment made: 6, in clause�22,�page�13,�line�7,�at end insert�
�( ) Before making regulations under this section the Secretary of State must consult such persons as the Secretary of State thinks appropriate.�.�(George Eustice.)
This amendment would require the Secretary of State to consult before making regulations about the sale of fishing opportunities.
Clause 22, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned.�(Iain Stewart.)