(8 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the latest NHS performance figures and the concerns expressed by the Society for Acute Medicine that overcrowding in hospitals may result in avoidable deaths.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Prior of Brampton) (Con)
My Lords, a significant increase in emergency demand in January put the NHS under great pressure. Compared to January last year, the NHS had almost 175,000 more attendances in A&E in January 2016. We recognise this rise in demand is not sustainable, which is why we have invested £10 billion in the NHS’s five-year forward view.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister, but he will know that the January performance was the worst A&E performance of the NHS on record. The Society for Acute Medicine has warned that this is bound to have an impact on the number of avoidable deaths that take place. Ministers cannot just blame the public for coming to A&E departments. The fact is: they have cut nurse training places; they have cut social care; they have squeezed the NHS budget; and today the Public Accounts Committee says that the NHS has no chance whatever of clearing the financial deficit. I would simply ask the Minister when he thinks the NHS will next meet the four-hour target.
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, there was a 10% increase in demand in January, which put the NHS under huge pressure. It is much to the credit of A&E services that we saw 111,000 more people within four hours than we did the previous January. It is also worth mentioning that, over the last five years, the number of consultants working in A&E has increased by 49%. The number of people working in emergency care as a whole has increased by 3.7%. It does not alter the fact, which I recognise, that A&E departments are under tremendous pressure—they often are in winter. We hope that that pressure reduces as spring approaches.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister look very carefully at the reasons for delayed discharges, which lead to overcrowding, and to the particular role that community hospitals, such as the Lambert Hospital in Thirsk, play in rehabilitating those who have had a fall, an operation or a stroke? Will he look very carefully at the role of, and allocate sufficient resources to, community hospitals to ensure that they remain in service, playing this crucial role of step-down between the acute hospital and going home?
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, clearly, step-down facilities, including community hospitals, have a very important role to play. The whole thrust of the five-year forward view is to treat more people outside acute hospital settings. That is the NHS’s plan, which the Government support.
Lord Patel (CB)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that there needs to be a reform of the tariff paid for the workload that A&E departments now bear? If there is an appropriate tariff, the hospitals will invest in better facilities and better staffing, such as collocation of out-of-hour GP services, pharmacies, and even mental health assessment services, alongside A&E departments. Does he therefore agree that there needs to be a reform of the tariff paid to A&E?
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, the tariff has been changed. Acute hospitals now receive 70% of the tariff, rather than 50%, for the excess numbers of people coming into A&E departments. The noble Lord is absolutely right, though, that those hospitals that have collocated GPs and A&E departments, and have invested in psychiatry liaison nurses and other people, have seen huge improvement. The question is: do we want to invest? Are A&E departments the right places to invest, or ought we to be putting that investment into primary and community care? That is the big issue that will be decided over the next five years.
Lord Rennard (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister agree with the president of the Society for Acute Medicine that there are no more efficiencies to be made and that we must now start to invest in care again to bring us on a par with other developed nations? Does he accept that the planned increases in expenditure for the NHS will not be adequate to deal with the crisis in it, and that we need to consider a hypothecated tax to fund health and social care?
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, a lot of what was said by the person, whose name I cannot remember, to whom the noble Lord refers, was absolutely right, but when he said that there were no more efficiencies to be gained he was completely wrong. We can still achieve huge efficiencies throughout the whole healthcare system, in the context that the NHS is one of the most efficient systems in the world, but it can be better. It would be completely wrong to say that no more efficiencies can be achieved.
The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)
My Lords, it is the turn of the Labour Benches. While I am on my feet, I remind noble Lords that we should not be reading out questions at Question Time.
Baroness Pitkeathley
My Lords, will the Minister agree that there is bound to be overcrowding in hospitals if we have a point of entry without any guaranteed point of exit? Therefore, unless social care is adequately funded and organised, we will always have this problem of overcrowding, particularly where old people are concerned. I would be very glad if he did not refer me to the better care fund as the answer to this, because it is already oversubscribed many times.
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, I will not refer to the better care fund, but I agree with the noble Baroness that flow through a hospital is essential. Blockages at the end of the flow can cause problems further down the line in A&E departments. I entirely agree with the noble Baroness’s analysis, but it is more complex than just looking at social care. Two-thirds of the delayed transfers of care are caused internally within the NHS, compared with only one-third by social care, but the noble Baroness makes a very strong point.
Lord Vinson
My Lords, is it not a fact that net immigration into this country is running at over 200,000 people a year, and possibly rising? Surely this has a huge bearing on the ability of the National Health Service to meet demand. That factor should be taken into consideration.
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, the demand on the health service is rising for many reasons, of which the growing population is clearly one. However, without the extraordinary contribution made to the NHS by people who have emigrated here from other countries, we would not have an NHS at all.
Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)
My Lords, will the Minister comment on how we might prevent people going into hospital through much better structuring of community teams led by nurses? Last week, I was told at the Secretary of State’s conference on patient safety that the mean age of patients on a medical ward at Oxford was 83. When I was a ward sister, it was around 50.
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, clearly it must make more sense to provide better treatment for elderly people in their homes, away from hospitals, particularly for those with often multiple long-term conditions. One of the tragedies of government policy since 2000—this goes across both parties—is that, although the rhetoric has been about moving care out of hospitals into the community, it has been extremely difficult to do it.
Lord Watts (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister accept that, although they may not be the only cause, the cuts in social care have had a profound effect on overcrowding in our hospitals? Would it not be a good idea to reverse those cuts and take some of the pressures away from our hospitals?
Lord Prior of Brampton
My Lords, I think it is well understood that the integration of healthcare and social care is hugely important and that the two cannot be seen in isolation. It will be very interesting to see how things develop in Manchester, where we are going to see an experiment in the integration of health and social care on a very large scale.