Lord Lea of Crondall
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to privatise the Land Registry.
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
My Lords, in the Autumn Statement last year, my right honourable friend the Chancellor announced the Government’s intent to consult on options to move operations from the Land Registry into the private sector from 2017. The Government are currently looking at the best options to achieve their objectives. No final decisions will be made on the future of the operating model of the Land Registry until a public consultation has been completed.
Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)
My Lords, Ministers have referred to the rationale for this decision in terms of asking the public and ourselves what overriding reason there is for the Land Registry to stay in the public sector, which is an ideological position. Two questions arise from that. First, I return the compliment and ask: on what grounds is the noble Earl parting company with William the Conqueror who, in 1086, ordained the compilation of the Domesday Book of all land holdings, successfully completing this as a state function? Indeed, it is a natural monopoly like tax collection, and as such is identified in all economics textbooks as the classic exception to the normal case for competitive and profit-maximising private enterprise. Secondly, there was nothing on this in the Government’s manifesto and according to a recent poll it is opposed by 95% of the British people, so how come the Government announced their intention—as the Minister said—to sell it for a sum of £1 billion, according to the FT, with only the flimsiest lip service paid to protecting the integrity of the register?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I am not sure I have any relationship with William the Conqueror. Seriously, the noble Lord asked a number of questions but in essence asked why we are doing this. As he is aware, the Government continually review all their assets to ensure that public services operate efficiently and effectively for the taxpayer. A sale of part or all of the Land Registry operations is expected to deliver a capital receipt for the Government. That can be invested elsewhere for the benefit of the taxpayer. Where there is no strong policy reason for continued public ownership of an asset, it is right that the Government look at the merits of sale.
Lord Rooker (Lab)
My Lords, why cannot the Land Registry do more to stop London becoming the money-laundering capital of Europe by at least ensuring that all property transactions—all of them, but particularly from abroad—have the beneficial owner listed rather than just corporate ownership, as is the case with properties purchased by companies inside the UK, so that it is fair for all? Lastly, why can it not publish all the purchase prices of properties where they are purchased from abroad? It publishes only 70% of the purchase prices of properties purchased from abroad and that leaves us, as a country, wide open to massive money-laundering.
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes some very interesting points. He must also be aware that we are going to have this open and public consultation in which he will have the opportunity to make those points.
Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)
My Lords, are the Government entirely appreciative of the enormous importance of the integrity of the Land Registry? Having worked for many years as a lawyer, I would like to be sure that before the Government take the step of privatising it, they understand the implications and that whoever takes it over must have the same degree of integrity as the people who run it now.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Baroness for that point. She is quite right—the integrity of the Land Registry has to continue; it has to be trusted by customers, people selling property, conveyancing bodies and the law societies. At an early stage, the project team engaged with officials across Whitehall, and outside government we have been in contact with the Land Registry Advisory Council, which includes the Building Societies Association, the Law Society and the Conveyancing Association, among others.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the danger is surely that the Government will see the changes as an opportunity for a job-cutting exercise. In evaluating the options, what weight will be given by the Government to the preservation of jobs in areas of high unemployment?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, there will be no immediate change for Land Registry staff; no decisions will be taken until, as I said earlier, public consultation has taken place. In the case of a change, we will look to make all changes compliant with employment law and, after appropriate communications and engagement, with the trade unions. I should add that in the Land Registry 63% of employees are represented by the PCS and the FDA, and I know that they have regular conversations with the management and that even at the most senior level that happens as well.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, in view of the Land Registry’s incredible photographic survey, can my noble friend assure the House that there will be no selling to Google?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, my noble friend, as ever, poses an interesting point. I am not sure whether this is an area that the company mentioned is involved in.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
My Lords, if the Land Registry is purchased, I assume that the Government will put in place measures to prevent a new commercial owner exploiting access to the register for commercial gain. If so, will that not reduce the price?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, obviously, as the consultation has not taken place and we do not actually know how the sale will be established, we cannot even talk about the price. But the noble Lord makes a point about exploitation, and he is quite right that those aspects must be guarded.
Lord McNally (LD)
My Lords, I declare an interest in that the Land Registry was the first organisation to offer me a job at the age of 16, so I have always had a fondness for it. Is the Minister aware that the reason why the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, is so right is that Land Registry is a key part of the most important thing that most people ever do, which is to buy a house? The public trust the Land Registry. If the public consultation that the Minister has proffered as a way forward shows overwhelming hostility to the Government’s plans by the general public, will the Government accept that decision?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I cannot possibly pre-empt what is said in the consultation and what Her Majesty’s Government will say in response. As I said earlier, the consultation will be taken very seriously by the department.