The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Prior of Brampton) (Con)
My Lords, I shall try to do this without hesitation, repetition or deviation, but I fear I shall fail on all three counts.
First, I echo what all noble Lords have said and thank the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for introducing this debate, which has been fascinating. He brings to it a lifetime of experience in healthcare, both in the NHS in the UK and, of course, globally. He mentioned two quotes in his speech. The first was:
“Modern societies actively market unhealthy life styles”.
In a sense, that lies at the heart of much of what he said.
He also referred to the African saying: health is made at home, hospitals are for repairs. That is something we should take to heart. He has always said that we have much to learn from other countries, and perhaps we can learn a great deal from that particular saying.
I want to pick up some of the important issues raised by noble Lords in this debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Jay, talked about localism, about which she has some reservations. I suspect that that is an issue we will come to many times over the next few years. While I do not regard her as “a centralised dinosaur”, as she put it, the thrust of much of government policy over the course of this Parliament will be very much towards accountable localism.
The noble Baroness, Lady Williams, started her speech by almost praying for a whole-party approach to healthcare. It is probably unlikely, but it would be nice. She talked about prevention and education. I think that the curriculum for those aged up to 14 now has more time for nutrition and healthy eating, but she and other noble Lords mentioned the lack of time for PE. She also talked about mental health, domestic violence and equality of treatment for those suffering from mental health issues, something we all support in this House.
The noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, spoke movingly about what she called the empowerment model of putting patients—service users, or clients—much more in charge. We should not be so hamstrung by the medical model that has dominated healthcare for so long.
I congratulate my noble friend Lady Redfern on her wonderful maiden speech. She talked about nutrition—perhaps not surprisingly, as she said that she comes from a place where beetroot and celery are much talked about. She also talked about rehabilitation and reablement. Acute hospitals need to do a lot in the field of rehabilitation and reablement so that we can get much earlier discharge of care.
The noble Lord, Lord Best, reminded us that housing and health used to be part of the same department. I do not know how many years ago that was, but it is an interesting observation. He reminded us that home can become a trap, a prison—indeed, a fridge if the temperature is not right. Those were very important observations.
The noble Baroness, Lady Masham, talked very powerfully about the Paralympics and the power of sport. However, she also reminded us that there is no room for complacency about infectious disease and the treatment of people with drug and alcohol problems, and, of course, about the importance of hospital food.
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Foster, on his maiden speech. Like many of us, he was once a young rising star, but sadly those days are behind most of us. What he had to say about personal responsibility is very important. We can look to the state and to government institutions, but we need to take responsibility for ourselves as well, wherever possible.
The noble Lord, Lord Alton, made some very interesting comments about variation across the system. It is patchy. We talk about a National Health Service, but it is very different depending on where you live. It was interesting to hear him say that 660 million antidepressants have been prescribed where the underlying problem is loneliness, and that medicine is not a remedy for that. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Bristol quoted John Donne:
“No man is an island”.
We are all “part of the main”. I fear that the bell might be tolling for myself this evening, but he again made a very strong point. Social isolation and loneliness were common themes from many of your Lordships.
The noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, knows a great deal about the internet. When she said that the organising principle of our age is the internet, she made a profound point. I have absolutely no doubt that the power of the mobile phone and of the various apps being developed will reshape healthcare. It will shift power away from medical professionals towards individual users. I believe that there is now an app that can monitor your life signs from a drop of blood taken once a month. That is hugely powerful. She warned us of the risk that so much of this technology is concentrated in a small number of highly successful technology firms based in California. We need to be well aware of that.
My noble friend Lord Smith talked about the importance of clubs, participation and social interaction. He reminded me of Burke’s “little platoons”, which are such an important part of society. He also reminded us that in 1666, the average life expectancy was 35, so we have come a long way since then.
The noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, talked about loneliness and how hugging a young baby or child actually helps develop their brain. It is not just about the very young, but the old as well. Lonely people suffer both physically and mentally. We all love human interaction and know that it is not just the elderly who suffer from isolation; many parts of society suffer from loneliness. I fear that computers have not done us proud when it comes to interacting as individuals with others.
The noble Lord, Lord Rea, talked about the importance of primary prevention. He quoted from Sir Michael Marmot’s book on health inequalities, which of, course, is very powerful. I will write to him, if I may, on Sure Start centres after this debate. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, talked before to me about loneliness and isolation, in particular the importance of relationships for looked-after children, adolescents and those in their early years. I am not familiar with the Bromley-by-Bow model raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, but I would like to learn about it. I was fascinated by his strictures about replication: you cannot just pick up a model in Bromley and dump it in Birmingham, or probably in any other part of London. There are aspects, however, that can be translated. He said it is always better to start small, rather than trying to start big. In the NHS, we perhaps get ahead of ourselves sometimes.
I turn to the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. This has been an important debate that reaches across a wide part of government. It raises issues that are not just pertinent to this country, but global. At their base, they reflect the fact that our population is increasingly elderly and people are suffering from many chronic long-term conditions. Lifestyles are causing a growing disease burden, particularly from obesity but also from alcohol and smoking. People’s expectations are changing all the time, and, of course, the cost of new surgical and pharmaceutical developments is huge. I suspect that genomic development and genomics will only add to those costs.
At the moment, however you measure how we fund these things—whether it is 16% of national wealth in America or more like 8.5% in this country or 11% in Germany—healthcare is consuming a vast amount of our GNP. Whatever health system you are in, there is an issue of sustainability. I believe that a strong economy is fundamental to any strategy that any of our parties would wish to have. We must have a strong economy, but that is not just so that we can afford better healthcare: it is actually more profound than that. It is because we have a strong economy that we will have high levels of employment. Work is a critical part of addressing some of the concerns of my noble friend Lord Crisp. If people have decent employment, they will tend to have higher levels of physical and mental health.
Education is also fundamental. It was Sir Michael Marmot, I think—or somebody else—who said that you could pretty much predict people’s future lifestyles from the age of 11. If their educational attainment is well below average at the age of 11, the outlook for the rest of their lives is not good. We also need to consider that the transition from adolescence into adulthood is also a critically important time. So I welcome the last Government’s and this Government’s increased commitment to apprenticeships.
The life expectancy of people living in Kensington and Chelsea was referred to earlier in the debate. I think I am right in saying that the life expectancy of people living in Salford is something like 25 years less than that of people living in Kensington. That cannot be explained just by reference to healthcare. Healthcare is demonstrably a very small explanatory component of such a difference in life expectancy. The differences are much more profound than just those associated with the NHS. When we talk about the health of the nation, it is tempting to focus just on the NHS, but it is only a very small part of it.
I wish to expand on devolution a little more because the driving force for devolution, particularly in Manchester but increasingly in the Black Country and other parts of the country, is to try to get greater economic regeneration. I believe that that, together with devolving more power to local authorities, will help to build a healthier society. I do not want to make a party-political point on this at all but I congratulate the principles underlying the work that Iain Duncan Smith has done in developing the universal benefit to try to make it easier for people to move from welfare into work. It is my fundamental belief that work is a crucial part of building a healthier society.
I wish to give noble Lords two quotes. Having said that the NHS is not a big part of this, I want to dwell briefly on it. The first quote is from the NHS Plan 2000. Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, was a member of the Government in 2000. The NHS Plan states:
“The NHS is a 1940s system operating in a 21st century world”.
I believe that that comment, made in 2000, was profound. Now here we are in 2015 and the NHS Five Year Forward View states that,
“there is broad consensus on what that future needs to be. … It is a future that dissolves the classic divide, set almost in stone since 1948, between family doctors and hospitals, between physical and mental health, between health and social care, between prevention and treatment. One that no longer sees expertise locked into often out-dated buildings, with services fragmented, patients having to visit multiple professionals for multiple appointments, endlessly repeating their details because they use separate paper records. One organised to support people with multiple health conditions, not just single diseases”.
So we all know what the issue is and yet getting change in the NHS has proved extremely difficult. I take issue with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt: I think that we have to push these new models of care and treat more people outside hospital settings, not because it is lower cost but because it is better care.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
I am not arguing against the models; all I am saying is that I think there is a simplistic view that, if you develop the models, you can reduce the pressure on your acute care capacity. I, and I think many commentators, are doubtful about that, given that our acute care capacity is so much less than that of most comparable countries. That is the point I was making.
Lord Prior of Brampton
I understand that fully. To be clear, at the heart of the Five Year Forward View are both the new care models—the vanguards referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley—and a change in productivity. I wish to dwell on productivity for a minute because the NHS is a lean system. I do not argue against that at all. It is a very high-value system. I was at a meeting with people from the Mayo clinic very recently and they said that they felt the NHS was the highest value healthcare system in the world. That does not mean that it is perfect. However, although we are always highly critical of it, by world standards it is a very good system.
We are going to address productivity through using much greater transparency—using the work of the noble Lord, Lord Carter—as well as trying to get a much higher degree of clinical engagement so that we get real traction. In the past we have had a top-down approach to try to drive through productivity improvements. This time we hope to have a much more bottom-up approach, with a much higher degree of clinical engagement.
The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, divided this issue into three, and the third aspect was the most important. The message is that it can be done. For example, the number of teenage pregnancies has been reduced by half. The number of people who die in fires has been reduced by half. Smoking prevalence has come down from 40% to 18%. Health-acquired infections such as MRSA and C. diff have come down very significantly. We can do it, if people work together.
Some of your Lordships may have read the McKinsey Global Institute report into obesity. It is a very good report. Obesity is a global problem: 2.1 billion people in the world are overweight—30% of the global population. It is going to rise to 50% by 2030. It costs billions of pounds and wrecks millions of lives. The McKinsey analysis makes three good points. First, there is no single intervention—no silver bullet. It is not just passing a sugar tax or a new regulation. In its view, when it comes to tackling obesity there are 74 separate interventions that must be done: housing, education, personal responsibility—it is a combination of all these things. Secondly, no part of society can do it on its own. It cannot just be top-down from government. It cannot just be bottom-up from individuals or the community. It has to be top-down, bottom-up and in between. Thirdly, you can never have all the evidence. If we wait until we have all the evidence about every single intervention, we will end up doing nothing. That is quite a good illustration of what the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, is aiming at. If we are going to have an effective strategy for obesity, which we will be revealing early in the new year, it has to be multifaceted. There is no silver bullet.
Treating illness is the tip of the iceberg that we all focus on but the much greater part of the iceberg is below the water. Improving and reducing health inequalities will require an effort that goes way beyond the NHS. Of course, the NHS has a big part to play but there is a much bigger and wider role for society as a whole. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for raising this issue. It has been a fascinating debate and I look forward to pursuing discussions with him and others outside the Chamber.