Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, I associate myself with the tributes paid to the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, first, for giving us the opportunity to have what has been a very thoughtful debate on this issue and, secondly, for her tireless campaigning on an issue that—let us be honest—is so awful that most of us do not even want to think about it. However, we have to think about it and take action on it so her campaigning, and the way that she has drawn the wider public’s attention to this issue, is something that she should be very proud of and we are very grateful for.
I also welcome the Minister who is responding to this debate. As we have heard, there have been some debates that were responded to by the Department of Health. During the many debates on the changes that we were making to legislation on the Serious Crime Bill, it was the Home Office responding. It is appropriate that we also have a response from the Ministry of Justice, as there are specific issues related to that department. That just shows how important it is for those three departments, and others, to work together and be co-ordinated on this.
The scale of this problem is hard to comprehend. We have had some figures from the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, but there are thousands of young women and girls in this country who have been mutilated. For those who think that it happens somewhere else over there, it does not; it is happening here. There could be a young girl somewhere in the UK today who is being mutilated. It is that serious. The euphemism that we sometimes use of girls being “cut” belies the horror of what is really involved, which I think is the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley of Knighton. It was right that the noble Baronesses, Lady Tonge and Lady Rendell, were also clear about the horrors of what is involved. When we spoke about this in debate on the Serious Crime Bill, I think that I was the first person to appear on “Yesterday in Parliament” in a programme that was given a certificate and a warning before it went out. I thought that it was important to say exactly what is involved, and in somewhat embarrassing graphic detail.
We are talking about thousands of young girls and women. The noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, made the point about these girls having children. It is estimated that up to 60,000 girls have been born in England and Wales to mothers who had FGM, which means that they have been sealed up after they have been cut and that the process of birth, where they have to be operated on beforehand, is extremely difficult. Whatever the numbers, we are talking about thousands. The process known as infibulation sounds quite a normal word for something that will continue to cause pain and trauma throughout the life of that woman. It is a mutilation that leaves permanent scars, on the mind as well as on the body.
The lack of prosecutions should concern us all. It would be fine if we thought that there was a lack of prosecutions because the law had been so successful that it was preventing this happening. However, we know that that is not the case and that thousands of young girls every year undergo FGM here in the UK.
I would like to raise two issues because it seems to me that the purpose of legislation here is twofold. We have such legislation in place, first, to try to prevent such mutilation occurring and, secondly, to take action against those who break the law. We had discussions in debate on the Serious Crime Bill on female genital mutilation orders, which the Government introduced in response to our proposals for such orders. They seek to protect young women from this vile practice before it happens, so they are similar to the forced marriage orders in their aim being prevention. By recognising all the problems in getting evidence for a criminal prosecution, they take the route that this is a civil measure to protect a young girl rather than a criminal measure.
The Minister was not in the debate because it was not his Bill, but I am sure that he will be aware of the discussions that we had. We have concerns about the process that the Government have chosen. Rather than placing such orders clearly and firmly in family law in a civil process, they are placed in a civil process within criminal law. I will not go into the detail now but all the advice that we have received from lawyers with expertise in this field tells us that this will make the gain of such an order more difficult, for some of the reasons that we have explained before. That is part of why we have had a lack of prosecutions for those who have committed FGM.
The Minister’s experience will tell him that lawyers dealing with family court cases and issues are not the same as those who deal with criminal law. We welcome the orders that prevent this happening and we welcome the Government’s support, but we just want them to be as effective as they possibly can be, because a child’s future depends on us getting this right. We want to ensure that there are no barriers for someone to seek an order to protect a young girl from being mutilated. We want to make it as easy and straightforward as possible, without any loopholes or problems. So before the Serious Crime Bill finishes its passage through Parliament, could the Minister bring his legal expertise to look again at this issue to ensure that we have got it right, because we have serious doubts that the orders as currently proposed will get as many prosecutions as they could if they were wholly within family law courts and not within a criminal prosecution, although it is a civil measure?
Baroness Smith of Basildon
I am not talking about prosecutions—I am talking about the FGM orders that are currently civil orders that the Government have placed within criminal law to keep all FGM legislation the same. It is a very different process from prosecuting afterwards.
My second point is that we wanted these FGM orders to be based on the same principles as forced marriage orders, which have been significantly successful. One aspect on which I sought clarity from the Minister at Third Reading—I have also spoken privately to the Minister and have not yet got an answer—is whether legal aid would be made available for those seeking an FGM order as it currently is with forced marriage orders? The Minister was unclear on that in the House and although I have spoken to him since it seems that there is still a lack of clarity in the Government over whether these orders would attract legal aid. It seems impossible to me that they could proceed in any way without legal aid.
During the passage of the LASPO Bill, because of the changes made to legal aid by the Government, there was a specific provision was made for forced marriage orders, in paragraph 16 to Schedule 1. No such provision has yet been made for FGM orders. I find it strange that the Government would consider bringing in such orders without providing these young girls or those acting on their behalf to prevent them being mutilated with the ability to bring something before the courts and have legal aid. Are the Government intending to make legal aid available? If not, or if the position remains unclear, how does the Minister expect the orders to be obtained and how many does he think that there will be?
We do not think that the Government are wrong on the orders. On prosecutions, we believe that they share our objectives to stamp out this practice and hold those responsible to account. We believe that that is a genuine commitment from the Government. However, the laws that we have at the moment are not working as well as they should, or were intended to do. We have an opportunity in the Serious Crime Bill to make changes and get it right, but as the right reverend Prelate said, we need to have a cultural change as well. If it was made clear that successful prosecutions could be made under the existing law, that would help to drive a cultural change. If the expectation was that this was something that could be prosecuted, that would have an impact in those communities.
We all want to see those responsible for mutilating the genitals of young girls being prosecuted, and we want to see this twin-track approach whereby we prevent it happening in the first place and make a difference to the lives of these girls.
Lord Faulks
My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, for securing this important debate and for introducing it so effectively and economically. The fact that she has returned to this subject so many times is a tribute to her tenacity on what is such an important issue for all of us. This issue is very much in the news now; coverage of it has exploded. However, that was a long time coming and is due to many people, including those such as the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, who have kept the matter high on the agenda, and I pay tribute to her and to other speakers who have an equal interest in this important subject.
There is, I think, complete agreement that this is an abhorrent crime that affects some of the most vulnerable girls and women in our society. The Government are committed to preventing and ending the harmful and unacceptable practice. I agree that successful prosecutions are a key part of stamping out FGM and would send out a strong message on the rule of law, something to which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, referred. There is a prosecution due in January. It is probably not appropriate to comment on what one hopes the outcome of the case would be, but, whatever happens, the publicity that will attend that prosecution should, I hope, send a strong message in itself.
The DPP announced the first prosecutions of FGM in March of this year. The first defendant is charged with carrying out FGM. The second defendant is charged with intentionally encouraging an offence of FGM and aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring an offence. I am sure that it is a source of frustration to all noble Lords that while FGM has been a specific criminal offence for 29 years—the original Act—no prosecutions were brought. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, played a significant part in the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985. The Female Genital Mutilation Act, which she steered through this House, extended significantly the protection that the law affords to victims of this unacceptable practice. The Act created extraterritorial offences to deter people from taking girls abroad, and, to reflect the serious harm caused, it increased the maximum penalty for any of the female genital mutilation offences from five to 14 years.
However, there has been increasing public concern at the failure to achieve a successful prosecution. Records indicate that no cases were referred to the CPS for a decision on whether to bring proceedings until 2010. In the last couple of years, a small number of cases have been reported to the police, which they have duly investigated. Some of those cases have since been referred by the police to the CPS for advice. However, the prevalence of FGM here—a study, part-funded by the Government and published in July 2014, revealed that approximately 60,000 girls are at risk of FGM in the UK—clearly should give rise to far more investigations and prosecutions than are taking place.
The CPS can, of course, only consider prosecuting cases of FGM which have been referred to it by the police following an investigation. However, the real problem has always been persuading victims to come forward at all. There are a number of challenges faced by the police in investigating cases of FGM. Many victims may be too young or vulnerable, or too afraid to report offences or to give evidence in court. As referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, the consequence of giving evidence and coming forward can be complete ostracisation from family or community: they may seem to pay a very high price. There may be evidential problems and other difficulties if cases are reported many years after the event. And of course FGM may take place out of the jurisdiction, leading to challenges in obtaining reliable and admissible evidence.
The CPS has been working closely with the Government, police, medical professionals and the third sector to address some of these challenges, and is now in a much stronger position to bring successful prosecutions against those who perpetrate this practice. The DPP wrote to the Ministry of Justice and to Home Office Ministers in February 2014 proposing changes to strengthen the legislation. The proposals were informed by a review of cases referred to the CPS by the police in which prosecutors had been unable to charge and prosecute. A number of areas were identified in which legislation could be strengthened.
As has already been mentioned, in July 2014, the Prime Minister hosted the UK’s first Girl Summit. At the summit, a package of measures was announced, including commitments to strengthen the law and improve the enforcement response. There has been reference to legislative changes included in the Serious Crime Bill. While I readily concede that legislation is not of itself the answer, it is nevertheless important that there is the appropriate legislative framework. Some of the cases referred to the CPS highlighted, in the context to which I referred earlier, that a prosecution for FGM committed abroad could not be brought if those involved were not, at the material time, permanent UK residents as defined in the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003. Clause 67, which was included on its introduction, extended the reach to habitual as well as permanent UK residents. Many textbooks have been written about the different between “habitually” and “permanent”. I will not deal with the issue now, but it certainly covers those who seek to say that they were not permanently resident here. This means that it will in future be possible to prosecute a non-UK national for an offence under Sections 1 to 3 of the 2003 Act where that person is only habitually resident in this country.
More amendments were added on Report. It was thought that victims were reluctant to come forward because they did not want to be identified in the media, so lifelong anonymity is granted by Clause 68. We hope that will help to encourage people. I pay tribute to those who are courageous enough not only to come forward but to identify themselves—there are one or two. We hope that that will be followed.
Clause 69 creates a new offence of failing to protect a girl from the risk of FGM and would make someone who has parental responsibility for a girl who has been mutilated aged under 16, and is in frequent contact with her, or who has assumed responsibility for such a girl, potentially liable if they knew, or ought to have known, that there was a significant risk of FGM.
Of course, we are very keen to see the criminal law being used, but ideally one would want to prevent FGM happening at all. So, following a consultation launched at the Girl Summit, Clause 70 introduces the civil order referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, to protect those at risk of FGM. She said that she is concerned that in the particular court in which such an order can be obtained the relevant experience may not be there for those who might seek an order and it would be better obtained elsewhere. We will consider that matter and I will pass on the concern that she has expressed. However, what is important is that wherever it is appropriate to seek such an order there is the relevant experience. We will work with the legal profession and others to ensure that the provisions are widely publicised and understood so that they can be proceeded with.
The noble Baroness asked about legal aid. I inquired specifically on this. The position is that we are considering the question of legal aid. I hear what she says about that. It is a matter which will be considered, I hope, in short order.
Safeguarding professionals are key to reporting FGM. The Government have committed to consult on how best to introduce a new mandatory reporting duty to ensure professionals report cases of FGM to the police. Alerting the police to actual cases will allow them to investigate the facts of each case and increase the number of perpetrators apprehended.
The CPS has appointed lead FGM prosecutors for each CPS area in England and Wales and local police/CPS FGM investigation protocols have been agreed with the 42 police force areas. That deals to some extent with the point made by the right reverend Prelate about the need to skill up prosecutors and the police to make sure that there is not just legislation but some practical understanding of the problems that are to be confronted here.
The Government have published multiagency practice guidelines on FGM, highlighting the risk factors that teachers, nurses, GPs, police officers and social workers should be looking out for during their work—matters on which the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, was keen to establish we were making progress. We are supporting and funding community engagement work to raise awareness of the issue. We are ensuring that NHS acute hospitals routinely record information relating to FGM and use it to support social services and police, as well as sharing it to provide appropriate healthcare for girls and women.
The Home Office has launched an e-learning tool so that all practitioners are able to undertake an introduction to FGM. There are reforms to social work, education and practice to protect children from FGM and other forms of abuse. There is also work to tackle FGM internationally, and DfID has announced a £35 million programme. The right reverend Prelate referred to our response to the Select Committee’s report and the action plan. I think that all noble Lords will agree that we have done all we can to grapple with this issue, although progress is frustratingly slow.
The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked whether this country was in some way particularly attractive to those who might wish to perpetrate this crime on young girls. Of course, one of the problems is that this is a largely hidden crime. However, the Government are committed to trying to stamp it out. They do not keep data on this matter but we are convinced that what we are doing will not do anything other than discourage it because of all the publicity and the various steps that we are taking.
As to the question of compulsory examinations, which the noble Lord raised on a previous occasion, I understand why he thinks that that is important. At the moment, the Government are not convinced that introducing medical examinations to identify FGM should be compulsory. I say “at the moment”; there are no current plans but the Government’s mind is not closed to these things. However, I do not want to mislead Parliament or the noble Lord by saying that they are actively considering that course.
There is very active engagement with foreign jurisdictions. We are learning from other countries, including France and common law jurisdictions in Australia.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, mentioned discussions between the DPP and law officers. As he will well know, they have regular meetings on a range of matters, including violence against women and girls. There was reference to Keir Starmer and his interest. Although I do not have personal knowledge of this, I am sure that such conversations continue under the current Government, and we know that there is a trial coming up in January.
I know that there was a debate about whether there should be a new criminal offence of inciting or encouraging FGM generally, as opposed to specifically. At the moment—indeed, it is the subject of one of the prosecutions—the Government think that prosecutions should relate to a particular offence rather than more generally, but I entirely take the point that it is important that community leaders outlaw this. Following the Girl Summit, 350 community and faith leaders from all major religions have condemned this practice, and we hope that that will continue.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, quite rightly pointed to the fact that this issue goes across government. Of course, the Department of Health, DfID, the Department for Communities and Local Government, the MoJ, the Solicitor-General and the Department for Education are all concerned with this. There are regular meetings, an FGM unit has been established at the Home Office, and the Government’s cross-government strategy is contained—
Baroness Tonge
I see that the Minister is drawing to a conclusion but I am bursting to ask him a question. Does he agree that female genital mutilation is grotesque child abuse? Therefore, why do we have to have all this extra wrapping around it? Why can it not just be dealt with like child abuse? I have had children brought to me in my clinics where teachers have suspected that sexual abuse has been going on. Why cannot the same thing happen with FGM? Why is it all so peculiar?
Lord Faulks
I do not think there is anything peculiar about it. There is no doubt that it is a criminal offence. In fact, France does not have a specific offence of genital mutilation; it simply has offences of assault and the like. Whether it is sexual abuse, assault or FGM, it is a criminal offence. So there is no special precaution about this. One of the points correctly made by the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, is that we have left the exaggerated respect for cultural norms and traditions and we hear no more about that, I am glad to say.
Across departments, the Government are committed to doing everything we can to stamp this out. We hope its prosecution is a success, that more people come forward and that a complete consensus can be established to stamp out this abhorrent practice. This has been a passionate and well informed debate. The Government fully understand the concerns expressed here and outside and are resolutely committed to fighting FGM.