North Wales Police and Anonymous Blog Site
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
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The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims (Mike Penning)
It is a privilege and an honour for me to take this first opportunity to respond to a debate as the new policing Minister. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) on securing a debate that concerns an enormously important issue. As he knows, there are aspects of that issue on which I can comment openly, and others in regard to which I am subject to a degree of restriction.
The part of Wales that my hon. Friend represents is so beautiful, and so brilliantly represented by him, that some of my constituents continue to leave my constituency for the area around Conwy. Indeed, some of my friends have retired there. My friends are still my friends, but I am envious of those who have gone to my hon. Friend’s constituency, and envious of the fact that he represents them and I do not. That must indeed be a very beautiful part of the world. I also know that my hon. Friend is enormously popular there. The fact that his constituents stood up and spoke out against the accusations that were made about him shows what a fantastic constituency Member of Parliament he is. If only more constituents recognised the hard work and dedication of MPs, perhaps we would have a better reputation around the country.
Let me add, Mr Deputy Speaker, that no matter what the job is—whether you are a Member of Parliament, a member of the Government, a doctor, a nurse or a policeman—no one has the right to level pernicious accusations against you. No one has the right to threaten your family, no one has the right to “troll” you, and no one has the right to create the atmosphere that has clearly been created in my hon. Friend’s constituency.
My hon. Friend raised several questions in his short speech. The best news that I have heard today is that the site is now down and is no longer operating. Let us hope that continues to be the case—not least, perhaps, as a result of some of the comments that I am about to make.
Let me also take my first opportunity as policing Minister to praise the police throughout this great country of ours, both in the devolved parts of our Union and in England and Wales. The fact is that 99.9% of the police do a fantastic job for us day in, day out, on 365 days of the year. I think that more politicians should stand up and say the sort of things that my hon. Friend has said today, although he is obviously concerned about the actions of some—and it is always the “some” whom we talk about: those who have let us down, let themselves down or let their forces down, rather than the vast majority who, as I have said, do such a fantastic job for us day in, day out.
My hon. Friend asked me whether harassment, or trolling, was an offence. It is, and there are myriad pieces of legislation to deal with it, including those to which my hon. Friend referred on the basis of his research. We have the Defamation Act 2013, the Communications Act 2003, the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 and the Malicious Communications Act 1998, to name but a few. It is therefore probably inaccurate to say that nothing can be done should evidence be there—although I stress that it is up to the police to conduct their investigations and to decide whether a criminal act has taken place—and I can answer one of my hon. Friend’s most forthright questions by saying “Yes, the legislation is there, on the statute book.”
Let me now turn to the guidance that is provided for the police, and the question of whether the way in which it is used in north Wales is different from the way in which it is used in other parts of the country. I do not know exactly how it is being interpreted in north Wales, but it is being interpreted around the country, and prosecutions have taken place, and continue to take place, on the basis of the guidance that has been issued to police authorities. A lead chief constable is responsible for these matters through the Association of Chief Police Officers. It is clear to me that, if prosecutions are taking place in other parts of the country—I personally have not seen anything like this in my constituency; I have come close but not anything like what has been described today—I would expect, as a constituency MP, the police to do a full investigation in my constituency, and in any other part of our great nation.
To answer directly again the question: is the guidance in place? Yes it is. Do I as the Minister for policing feel that that guidance is robust and simple and has been explained? Yes I do, clearly, as other forces are ensuring that it is being used in that way. Nothing is perfect and I am sure that we can find other examples around the country where people think a prosecution should have taken place and it has not. We are not in a perfect world. It is not for politicians, rightly, to tell the police what they should and should not do. The Crown Prosecution Service and the Director of Public Prosecutions are involved in the ongoing discussions that we have on this area. Online jurisdiction and what can and cannot be used is a very difficult issue.
I always do this when I stand at Dispatch Box. I am now in my fifth role in this Parliament so I must be doing something wrong. I think I have broken all records—five Departments in four years in one Parliament. I try to stand here sometimes and think to myself, “What would I think if I were the constituency MP who had raised this issue today?” First, I would be on the Back Benches raising the issue in an Adjournment debate. It is absolutely right and proper that this issue has been brought to the House this evening. What would I do? I would be complaining on behalf of my constituents and of myself; my hon. Friend represents himself in his constituency as the MP for that constituency. I would make a formal complaint with my concerns to the chief constable in North Wales.
I know that sounds complicated sometimes. Often constituents say to me and the Department, “You are complaining to the people who you think have done something wrong.” That is right. It is right and proper that, if mistakes have been made and concerns exist, any force, whether that be the police force or the local health authority, has the opportunity to address the concerns of our constituents. If we are not happy, in this particular case, it should go to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. That is, in my opinion, where this should go, if my hon. Friend is not happy, and clearly he is not, with the response that he has had from North Wales.
It would be difficult for me to go further than that because the Independent Police Complaints Commission is what it says on the tin—independent. I have met the chairman and chief executive only in the last couple of days, naturally. Although we have a review on the ongoing role of the IPCC and what sort of complaints it should deal with, in my opinion, that is exactly where this complaint should be going.
To sum up, I am really sad that my hon. Friend has had to raise the issue. He has done the right thing in doing so. It is a tiny minority of police in this country who cause problems. If that is the case in North Wales, and it has not been addressed by the correct complaints procedure, my hon. Friend has the right and should take it to the IPCC.
Question put and agreed to.