(11 years, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Thornton
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they will take in the wake of reports last week on BBC Northern Ireland concerning access to terminations for women in Northern Ireland who are carrying foetuses with severe abnormalities and wish to end their pregnancy.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Wales Office (Baroness Randerson) (LD)
My Lords, the Abortion Act 1967 does not extend to Northern Ireland, where abortion law is governed by the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Constitutionally, abortion law in Northern Ireland is a transferred matter. It is therefore the responsibility of Northern Ireland Executive Ministers and so not a matter where Her Majesty’s Government have any powers to intervene.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
I was hoping to have a slightly more hopeful Answer from the noble Baroness, but I thank her for what she said. I hope that she will join me in congratulating the Mary Stopes clinic, which, tomorrow, is marking the first anniversary of its operation in Belfast. I had hoped that she might refer to the review that is taking place about the issue. That review is welcome, but, until it is completed, would it not be fair for Northern Ireland women who need and want terminations under these very unhappy circumstances to have them provided free under the NHS elsewhere in the UK, where that provision is not illegal? Would the noble Baroness care to reflect on the issue raised about how women in one part of the UK are denied rights and access to terminations that are available to all other women in the UK? I recognise that devolution is devolution, but surely it was not intended to achieve this unsatisfactory outcome for women in Northern Ireland.
Baroness Randerson
The noble Baroness will be aware that this case raises some very difficult issues and is very distressing. However, the current difference in legislation means that women travelling to England for an abortion generally make their own arrangements and fund the procedure themselves. To make exceptions to that would be a major departure from the system of residence-based responsibility and the separation of powers between the health services in the four jurisdictions of the UK. The noble Baroness will recognise that this is a sensitive issue that the previous Labour Government, when they were putting in place the devolution settlement, believed should be left to the people of Northern Ireland to decide for themselves.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton (Lab)
My Lords, I am a little surprised by the Minister’s first reply and I would be grateful for clarification. In 2011, the Government supported a report from the Irish Family Planning Association to the CEDAW periodic review saying that there should be a revision of abortion law in Northern Ireland. I fail to understand why the Government did that if the Minister is right in her argument. I add that this year, again, CEDAW has told the British Government that they need to expedite an amendment to the anti-abortion law in Northern Ireland and create a law to ensure that legal abortion covers circumstances such as threats to a woman’s health and cases of serious malformation of the foetus. As a signatory to CEDAW, when are the Government going to honour their commitments?
Baroness Randerson
I think it is important that the UK Government observe the devolution settlement. However, I think it is also important, as the noble Baroness mentioned, that there is consideration of the situation in Northern Ireland. I draw the attention of noble Lords to the comments of David Ford, Justice Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive, who has made it very clear that this issue needs to be reconsidered. Indeed, the Health Minister in Northern Ireland has made similar comments about the current legislation and its applicability in this case. However, it is not an issue for the UK Government.
Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)
Is my noble friend aware that some 14 years ago, when we were legislating on setting up the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales, there was serious debate in both Houses about where responsibility for administering the law on abortion should lie? The decision was taken—in my view, quite rightly—that the law should be uniform throughout the UK, so why should we leave Northern Ireland with an 1861 piece of legislation?
Baroness Randerson
The noble Lord is, of course, very much more aware of the background to this situation than I am. However, the current situation is as the previous Government intended it to be—abortion law in Northern Ireland is left to the Northern Ireland Assembly. It would not be acceptable—I am sure that it would not be acceptable to the people of Northern Ireland—for us to seek to change that unilaterally. I also draw the attention of noble Lords to the fact that when the Northern Ireland Assembly discussed new guidelines on abortion in 2007 they were unanimously rejected by Assembly Members.
Baroness O'Loan (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her comments on the fact that abortion is a reserved matter for Northern Ireland and should continue so to be. Is she aware that abortions do occur in Northern Ireland and that there is an ongoing legal duty to recognise that the unborn child, whatever its state of health, is deserving of protection? Is it not the case that England and Wales now needs to reconsider the law on abortion, given that we have a situation in which it is lawful to terminate the life of a baby simply because that baby is a little girl?
Baroness Randerson
On the first point, it is, of course, very much an issue for the people of Northern Ireland. It is a devolved matter and I believe that there is no wish in Northern Ireland for that to change. I would, however, make it absolutely clear to the noble Baroness that it is very certainly not legal to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of the sex of the child. An investigation into a recent case made that absolutely clear and the Chief Medical Officer will be issuing additional guidance to doctors in the very near future to make sure that that is perfectly clear to all those involved.