Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat the answer to an Urgent Question made earlier in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport.
“Mr Speaker, I must make clear that following the publication of Lord Justice Leveson’s report, cross-party talks have been exploring different ways of implementing the tough self-regulatory system for the press that he recommended. As colleagues will know, there are already several press Bills in the public domain which have been published by various organisations. The draft royal charter published by my party yesterday is outside the normal arrangements for collective agreement and does not reflect an agreed position between the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties.
I made clear to this House on 3 December that we would,
“send a loud message to the press of this country, and that message is that the status quo is not an option”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/12/12; col. 594.]
Both the Prime Minister and I wholeheartedly support a tough new system of independent self-regulation as outlined by Lord Justice Leveson. We knew that any new model must restore public confidence and ensure that the abuses of the past could not happen again, but we continue to have grave reservations about statutory underpinning and, as such, we have concerns about implementing a press Bill. The royal charter that I have published would put in place Leveson’s recommendations without the need for statutory underpinning. It would see the toughest press regulation this country has ever seen without compromising press freedom.
The royal charter implements the principles of Leveson in a practical fashion and is the Conservative Party’s alternative to Lord Justice Leveson’s suggested use of Ofcom as a verifying body. All parties now agree with us that handing further powers to an already powerful body would not be appropriate. There is a distinction between the regulatory body being set up by the press and the verifying or overseeing body for which we suggest a royal charter is used. Let us be clear: the charter does not create a regulator, rather it establishes the body that will oversee it. The regulatory system that the royal charter body will oversee will be tough and the regulator will have the power to: investigate serious or systemic breaches of the press code; impose up to £1 million fines; and require corrections and other remedies, including prominent apologies. The royal charter body will provide tough oversight and ensure that the new regulatory body is efficient and effective.
We have also published draft clauses for exemplary damages that would provide very real incentives for the industry to join the regulator and ensure that there are serious consequences for those that do not. This is tough regulation, a tough package, that delivers the principles of Leveson. Lord Justice Leveson’s report was almost 2,000 pages long. I do not think that anyone is really suggesting that it would be possible to pick it up and implement in full. There were areas raised within the report which all political parties have expressed very real concerns about; Ofcom is but one example. All political parties expressed serious reservations around data protection proposals and their potential impact on investigative journalism. There were also concerns about whether it would be appropriate for the Information Commissioner to investigate and then decide on public interest.
The royal charter reflects a principled way forward proposed from the Conservative side of the coalition. We are clear that this is a workable solution, but it is only a draft. We will continue to debate it as part of the cross-party talks and we will seek to secure agreement. We are all committed to the Leveson principles, and this is not about implementing or not implementing Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations; this is about taking the Leveson report and making sure it can be practically implemented. The challenge before all of us is to find an agreement. The victims deserve nothing less”.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement made as a UQ in the other place. Given that what we are addressing are, indeed, the Conservative Party’s belated Leveson implementation proposals, can he confirm that he is on this occasion speaking on behalf of his party and not on behalf of the Government?
It is almost three months since the Leveson report was published. Most people, particularly the victims, are getting fed up with the delay and obfuscation being perpetrated by those who profess that they agree with the Leveson principles but who seem to be ready to do anything but implement his ingenious and effective recommendations. Yesterday’s YouGov poll commissioned by the Media Standards Trust found that 74% of people believe that the Government should implement Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations, 82% believe that if the status quo continues there will be a return to unethical and illegal practices and only 35% would have confidence in a press regulator set up voluntarily by newspapers and backed by a royal charter.
Given these figures, does the Minister agree with me that what Leveson proposes is fair and reasonable, as it protects free speech as well as protecting people from abuse and harassment by the press, and that there is no justification for watering it down? What we want is Leveson, not Leveson-lite. Does he also accept that the most straightforward way of implementing Leveson is by statute rather than the rather archaic and cumbersome proposals we have before us today, which are neither fish nor fowl—a royal charter plus parliamentary safeguards and a separate statute? Does he agree that Leveson has given Parliament the opportunity once and for all to clean up the practices and behaviours of the press that have made a misery of the lives of the Dowlers, the McCanns, Abigail Witchalls’ family and so many others, and that history will judge us harshly if we fail in our duty and do not implement Leveson now?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, perhaps I may start by addressing the issue of the victims because the task of all political parties is to ensure that we have a long-standing arrangement whereby what has happened before never happens again. That is the number one priority in all our endeavours.
There is no intention or suggestion of the status quo remaining. I have to say to the noble Lord that what is on the table, the draft royal charter, is not a government document; it is an offering to the cross-party talks that are continuing tomorrow, and I very much hope that politicians of all sides and of good will can have a good discussion on this. However, there is absolutely no suggestion that this proposal is about a dilution of Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations. This is about bringing forward, yes, a royal charter and not statutory legislation in the way that the noble Lord has put, but it is not a cumbersome mechanism. Indeed, if we are talking about speed, which is very much one of the issues that a lot of noble Lords and many people are concerned about, the route of the royal charter will, in fact, lead to a more speedy conclusion to what we all want in this regard.
Lord Fowler
My Lords, perhaps my noble friend’s words about the victims would have more force had not the victims rejected the particular course being proposed. The original objection of government Ministers—or perhaps I should say, some government Ministers—to the Leveson proposals was that it required legislation. Now the impression is given that under the royal charter no legislation is required. However, is it not the case that legislation, and quite controversial legislation at that, is required both on costs and on damages to make the royal charter work? As that is the case, would we not have been better to have agreed to Lord Justice Leveson’s proposals and added the very modest statutory underpinning that he proposed?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I understand and know that my noble friend has a long-standing view about legislation. The point about the royal charter is that it is, in fact, the most speedy way in which we could address this matter and come to a conclusion, and I understand and very much hope that the cross-party talks tomorrow are going to discuss the detail of the royal charter. This is a draft, and copies of the papers are in the Printed Paper Office. I am starting to look through them because there is much merit in this avenue to deal with the concerns that have been expressed. I very much commend the detail of the royal charter, which is very different from many of the royal charters that noble Lords are aware of. On a range of issues, from the BBC to professional bodies, it is a different sort of proposal.
Baroness Boothroyd
My Lords, the BBC is governed by royal charter. It did not seem to me to assist the BBC or, particularly, Lord McAlpine some months ago when there were great difficulties with the BBC. Can the Minister convince me in a few short words as to how a royal charter will improve the workings of the newspaper industry and protect individuals who the newspapers potentially are going to highlight?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I have looked into the number of organisations that have a royal charter. They range from the Scout Association to the RSPB, and from professional bodies to universities and colleges. I emphasise to the noble Baroness that the proposals in this particular royal charter are very clear and distinct. The way in which the appointments panel, the recognition criteria and the recognition body are constituted will, on reading, reassure the noble Baroness that this is a serious proposal. It is in draft, and I do not think that drafts are always the final or perfect version, but they are certainly the beginning, I hope, of the opportunity for some serious discussions across the parties.
Lord Lipsey
My Lords, the Minister said that there was no suggestion of a dilution of the proposals. Does that mean that he has not yet had time to read the analysis published by Hacked Off, which calculates that of the 30 recommendations that constitute Leveson’s recognition criteria, just five are adequately represented in the royal charter, with 23 breached or caveated and two unclear?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I understand particularly the points made by Hacked Off. Clearly, we need to ensure that as many concerns as possible are allayed. As I say, the royal charter document is a draft. I am sure that there will be commentary on it by the political parties and I am sure that the point made by the noble Lord will be part of those discussions. In those cross-party talks it is important to have a formal structure from which we can take forward the very legitimate points that Hacked Off and other organisations have made.
Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury
My Lords, although welcoming the publication of the Conservative’s proposals for a royal charter, we on these Benches have always been clear that our preferred option is the implementation of Leveson. In view of what my noble friend has said, will he encourage the Secretary of State to work through cross-party talks, which he says are happening tomorrow, to produce a royal charter that achieves Leveson’s recommendations in full, which this, quite frankly, does not? Specifically, will she bring forward provisions that prevent it being amended or abolished by future Governments?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I very much hope that tomorrow’s discussions—obviously, I will not be party to them—will take forward an understanding of the parties’ positions. The royal charter provides an opportunity to have those discussions. I understand that there is considerable good will on all sides. My noble friend has made a point about the future of a royal charter and the importance of no one tampering with it. The detail of the royal charter includes how the appointments process is constituted; how the recognition body cannot change itself without a triple lock, which includes a unanimous decision by the recognition body; the written agreement of all the leaders of the three main political parties; and a two-thirds vote in both Houses of Parliament. With all those matters drawn into this draft, I believe that this royal charter has a very strong chance of considerable success.
Of course, no Government can bind a successor Government. That is one of the principles of the fine way in which we conduct our business. No Parliament can bind its successors.